Newbies

[-kj]

Ok, this being the "no holds barred" area of the board, I figured I'd keep my (further) ranting away from the main logo area and bring it over here.

So, suddenly, a bunch of new people have decided to come in and make life on this board as annoying as they can, rest of us be damned.  They seem to fit in a few categories:

1. "Hey, can y'all make these 500 logos for me?"  Oh, yeah, we're here to provide you, who we don't know at all, who's making their first post on the board, a bunch of free work.  I mean, I've done a few concepts (when I've had the time) for others on this board.  But generally they're either for someone who's been around a bit, or for a collective effort (MLF, for example).

2. Sabres90210 and the like, who come in screaming like grade school kids, going against any line of tact possible, and then having a bitchfit when people (like SyPhi, who's pretty well respected, and usually a really nice guy) try and point them in the right direction.  I understand that newbies don't always know the ropes--most of us didn't just magically appear on the CC boards with all the knowledge.  But part of being new to a group is learning what's kosher, not having a fit 'cause someone pointed you to an informative FAQ which someone took the time to put together.

3. This latest few, who've decided this whole board is full of it, that we're all "arrogant," and that since we disagree with their ideas, we should all go to hell.  I'm sorry, what gave you the idea that you should come in here and start dictating the laws of the land?  (See also: #2.)

Just a vent.  Let the flame wars burn bright.

[nitroseed]

While I have no problem with creating logos at request, I do mind when people register simply to ask us to create something as if we're a design bureau. I would prefer people to at least hang around and involve themselves in the community than dropping by as if we're the dry cleaners.

Sabres was flat-out over the line. Mockba, you did make one or two off-the-cuff remarks towards him, but I think we're well aware of that and can let it slide since he probably deserved it, as would anyone acting that obnoxiously. However, there is a large difference between a jab and a haymaker, that being a violent threat against someone (i.e. Sabres' threatening to "beat (mockba's) face in" and pull a "gat" on him). At that point, action has to be taken. If we allowed everyone to do that, the integrity of this board would shrink to naught.

And from my observation, it seems we're only deemed arrogant because we try and uphold that standard here or because we get frustrated with people asking the same questions ten times a week. New posters should know to read the TFAQ before they start firing away requests and questions that have been answered days prior. It's not hard to use the search command. I find it ingrateful that we try to uphold that standard and provide a civilized community to discuss such things as logos and uniforms in, yet in trying to maintain it, we're attacked for it, and especially so by people who never post here or contribute in any form.

Just my two cents.

[CC97]

Continuing with the idea that the CCSL community is far superior to the other communites in the Internet world, I have weeded out a few negative individuals today.  Perhaps I went overboard, but I felt that the users I removed were not contributing positively, and only adding negativity to the forums.

You gotta be tough sometimes.

[rockiesrule]

Hail to the chief.   j/k :cool:

[zer0dotcom]

I agree, this is a forum for descussing uniform designs in pro sports, not going toe to toe with each other over a bunch of comments. there are other places for that.

As for thsoe who think people posting on this board are arrogant:

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, what ever that may be. Sound arrogant? So what, if you don't like it, don't listen, or go away.

Anyone who posts a concept, or releases a artwork to the public to view has to open up to and accept all the critism directed at their work, positive nad  negative. Don't like what people say about your work? then keep it to yourself.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't share our ideas, just be prepared that people are going to make all sorts of comments about it, and be prepared for all of it.

By accepting critismism, artists are able to grow and improve themselves and their work (That little blirb is courtousy of my first year art prof, who tore up his own work to prove that its only lines on paper, and that if something's crap, you gotta accept its crap. if you can't accept that poeple are not going to like it, don't bother.)

The board shouldn't put up with persons who come in only to put down others ideas. Thats not why their posted, its to get feedback on what they've done and try to improve. there is a fine line between criticism and negative comments, and tonight that line has been crossed way too often.

I don't mean to sound all high and mighty myself, or disrespect anyone, I've just had this pent up all night nad had to get it out. lets think before we post, and everyone take a minute nad consider what you say before you say it.

[KCScout76]

I agree, this is a forum for descussing uniform designs in pro sports, not going toe to toe with each other over a bunch of comments. there are other places for that.

To the new guys: I have only joined the CC board in June but the guys (who I like to call the "graphic warriors") are correct in their observations.

Don't take any one person's opinions too seriously, it's an opinion and is not meant to attack you.

Be slow to respond to critique - if you go through the CC boards are read what people have said and see what people have done, you'll come to appreciate what we are all doing here.

I don't want to repeat what has already been said, but please, don't come into our house and start "Popping an attitude". Be patient and you'll find that this is a great group of people who love sports, unis, graphic arts & sports.

You'll see my name out there, my e.mail and I got nothing to hide - so if you have an 'APPROPRIATE' opinion, please share it. But do so with class & dignity!

[tajmccall]

What they said...

Yes, for those who are hurt by less than stellar reviews...you must understand that you can percieve it two ways.

as help, many of the minds here have professional, or semi-professional expertise, or atleast have a lengthy background in the subject at hand.

Or of course you can thumb your noise and say 'what do you know?' Which of course gets you super-duper far in life.

Nobody who regularly posts here means to hurt, some are more abrasive than others, but seriously, isnt that how life is??? Not everyone is peaches and cream, but it doesnt necesarily make them a bad person if they arent sparing feelings at all times.

i guess what im saying is

STOP BEING SO SENSITIVE. most of these people are strangers anyhow.

Keep it in perspective, and keep it constructive.

yay rants.

[tajmccall]

and a footnote to that...

maybe if everything you do gets railed...its because IT sucks, not US???

maybe im crazy.

[fiasco!]

as a newbie, i would like to express my appreciation to chris creamer and all who make these boards available to people who love logos, type, design, and the like. i felt really strange reading sabres posts on the dallas logo board last night. this is a great forum for people like me (and a lot of you) who just want their work to be seen by their peers, gain constructive criticism, and view others work (which is usually quite good).

i just thank you guys for making a site like (that doesn't suck) this available. i look forward to the time that i'm no longer a newbie and am looked to with the same type of respect as people like creamer, pantone, nitro, tajm, mockba, hockeygator, gms1122, snowcap, zerodotcom, shb, and so on.

thanks guys.

[yh]

As far as I can see, only two "newbies" have taken any type of abuse on this board recently.  And, frankly, I have my suspicions that it may be a case where one person was using two different identities - just a hunch.  It's important to remember that with the exception of Chris, we were all newbies at one point and somehow or another most of us have done just fine insinuating ourselves into the fabric of this community, taking criticism with stride and accepting gentle suggestions when we might breach some written or unwritten protocol of the community.  Why is that?  It's certainly not because we're some kind of secret society -- we're practically all strangers to each other.  Methinks a lot of it has to do with the fact that we are polite, respectful of others and want to preserve our ability to participate in the discussions on this growing network of boards. Most of us also know how to take a joke and handle sarcasm.  

Many of us here remember the "old days" when xlr8r/red dragon/keith/anichanger clogged the boards with mindless, inane drivel and when the Sabres character started showing the same pattern of communications, a number of us, the ordinarily reserved Chris Creamer included, leapt at the opportunity to swing at the pinata before the foregone conclusion (that he'd be removed) was reached.  If there was any inkling in my mind that this person was an innocent but wayward soul, I would not have taken the shots that I did.  I suspect others probably would have done the same.  Usually guys like SyPhi (and I don't mean to single him out but he's the guy that came to mind first) jump in and attempt to shepherd a wayward newbie on to the path of proper protocol without the need to resort to the kind of behaviors that many of us exhibited yesterday.  

I don't think any of the regulars here view this board as a country club where neophytes are shunned.  Anyone with something interesting to say has always been welcomed, however those who just barge in without reading the rules or the TFAQ, each of which are conspicuously displayed, and go on to become disruptive are just asking for trouble.  

Joel_Fiasco - it's very nice of you to express your thanks, however don't feel that it was necessary for you to do that.  Your contributions and meaningful commentary are all you need for a ticket in.

[jkrdevil]

My comp. has been down the last day and a half (I lost windows some how), plus with the playoffs I haven't been reading the forum as often, as i have been. Iv'e only really checked the IHL board. I just reinstalled windows today so I am going to go through the Dallas and Wild thread to see whats going on. (I have gone through a little bit of the wild, and read what "guest" was saying)

But anyway, here is my reasoning for the influx of newbies. When the sle went down this summer, on the news it said, if you say your a member of the CCSLP message board would get in. That attracted people here. As more people heard about the board more people came here to see if they could get there logos done for free, and since more people came more "jerks came".

If your a newbie most feedback is contructive. Learn from it, you will get better. I did, and I have no talent. Keep posting your concepts, but only if your willing to take negative feedback. Your work will not start off great.

Like I said, I will go through those threads and see whats going on and come back with a full opinion

[See Red]

I hope you guys don't confuse me with a Newbie -- that would just be way below my standards to act in a similar way to some of them.  I haven't been a member of the Chris Creamer board for too long, and have only had a little more than 30 posts... but I'm just now starting to get involved with posting and have worked on some concepts but haven't really shared many of them.  And I was a part of the fanhome board for a while as live4hockey88, or something along those lines, having done some concepts.

But I agree... I don't want to make it seem like it's ALL of the new posters, because there are some that actually have some insight to share and opinions that contribute to the overall group.  It's just those few that can't take criticism or can't taking someone disagreeing with them.  In fact, I think there are more that are new to these forums that actually contribute in a positive way than the aforementioned newbies that just create heat among members and themselves... and I think the good posters get lost among the bad ones.

Matt

[Phil]

Having been mentioned here, I'll say a few words.

I think regardless of how long we've been here, we need to be courteous and thoughtful towards newbies. The fact that they're new doesn't mean they don't have anything to contribute. They may be overexuberant, and ignorant of board etiquette or the TFAQ (which is why I support making that "kennebunkport"-esque required reading), but with a little guidance, most newbies can become contributing members of the board. It's tough to try and roll out the welcome wagon due to the sheer volume of newbies these days, so a little guidance early through the TFAQ and perhaps a Newbies Guide to the CCSL Board might go a long way.

As an aside... one of my pet-peeves when it comes to newbies is names with numbers... ie. Sabres89521598 and the like. Now this does not mean I hate the people who choose these names, but my first impression is that "Wow, I'm glad you value being here so much that you took 2 seconds to get a name"... the CCSL Board isn't so populous that there's a dearth of screen names.

Now don't go changing your name or anything... Sabres7200 for one has made a name for himself here, and our own Chris Creamer uses digits in his name as well. Just saying it's easier to remember names like tajmccall and nitroseed as opposed to Yankeefan8932 (not to be confused with Yankeefan8935).

My rant is done...

[sc49erfan15]

The 15 in my name is the jersey number that I've worn in every sport since 1997. (Also every other username of mine for any site is the49erfan15) I know what you mean though. I frequently confused Sabres98107 (or whatever it was) with Sabres7200, which is terrible because Sabres7200, like you said, is talented and has made a name for himself, while Sabres98107 was just a moron. I'm rambling here, but it makes no sense to me to have the current year in your name (like 49erfan2003) because the year is only going to change...

Anyway, I'll end it there.

[Snowcap30]

and our own Chris Creamer uses digits in his name as well.

My digits have significance, so it's not always the case that people just throw numbers in there without thought.

i think he ment that in a good way chris...

i think that newbies should at least get the time to adjust. i know for certain that KCScout was one "newbie" at the time he came that actually got to know me and we exchanged emails. there is also another gentleman that has also but im not sure if he has registered yet.

when i was a newbie here at fanhome i know i made the mistake of saying "wheres the templates u guys have?" but back then im not sure if the templates thread even existed or was even stickied

word to newbies - get to know the ppl around u b4 asking for rediculous favors like design me this design me that. at least try it yourself and if u need help, ask.

my 2 pennies

[Saintsfan]

As a tip to any newbies, don't go in with all guns blazing from the start. This is a well established community and you have to earnt the respect of its members, once you have done that you will be treated with the respoect you give out!

[Pat]

yeah i just joined today and id love for you guys to show me the ropes here. it seems like a nice message board, with fantastic ppl, and great convos.

i hope you guys respect me even if i just joined, and ill respect you guys. i just wanna chill here

[CJR]

This is probably the best place to announce this, so I'll take the opportunity...

I'm working on creating some new message board software that this board can be imported into (so we don't lose all the memberships and threads).  If it ever gets done, and if Chris wants to use it, it'll have the option of ignoring certain members' posts.  This might help the problem a bit, as if only a handful of people have a problem with each other, they can just ignore each other and get on with life.

Anyway, just wanted to pass along that that might be an option in the future.

[IronChefShark]

This is probably the best place to announce this, so I'll take the opportunity...

I'm working on creating some new message board software that this board can be imported into (so we don't lose all the memberships and threads). If it ever gets done, and if Chris wants to use it, it'll have the option of ignoring certain members' posts. This might help the problem a bit, as if only a handful of people have a problem with each other, they can just ignore each other and get on with life.

Anyway, just wanted to pass along that that might be an option in the future.

about friggin time!

[KCScout76]

the TFAQ and perhaps a Newbies Guide to the CCSL Board might go a long way.

I agree SyPhi, this would have helped me when I was a newbie. Kinda of a requirement for all the newguys. What do you think Chris?

Happy New Week!