greenville naturals

[fiasco!]

the silhouette is of "shoeless" joe jackson, a native son of greenville, sc. i thought the name 'naturals' would be perfect for baseball, and fit with shoeless joe's ability.

i know it still needs some work, but i wanted to get a draft in before the league's deadline for renaming.

uniforms and secondaries are forthcoming.

[Mings]

I like it, but not as much as I like your Ambassadors logo. I think the logo would be well suited to have Shoeless Joe inside the diamond with the wordmark on top. I'm not too keen on the wordmark font either. I wouldn't change the silhouette though, its golden.

[paynomind]

Nice!

I really like the concept. Very killer outline of Joe, nice work on the ball. Very killer concept of the ball in the shape of the field.

I think the outlines need some tweaking, and I might drop the Greenville down form 3 colors to one or maybe two.

But, you've got a great start there.

[BallWonk]

I really like the name and the killer profile of Shoeless Joe. Nicely done. A few suggestions for improvement:

What is the stitchy-diamond behind the batter supposed to communicate? It's just not adding anything for me. We already know it's a baseball team; that orange guy there could not possibly represent any other sport. So the stitchy-diamond is just clutter. Figure out what more you want the logo to communicate, and then rethink the background. Perhaps a distant fence with a foul pole at either end would be more in keeping with your concept, or perhaps an old-fashioned country town skyline or a sunset or something would add a classic flavor to your excellent silhouette.

The "Naturals" font is not unappealing, but neither is it very appealing. What do you want to communicate with the team name? Are you trying to create a vintage feel, to create a sense of nostalgia, or are you trying to create a feeling of strength and power, or should the lettering communicate a sense of simple straightforwardness? Figure out what impression you want people to draw when they glance at that team name and look for a font (or, even better, make your own letters) that fits the one or two characteristics you want the name to have. Right now, the font is telling me that the Naturals are wanted by the U.S. Marshals for cattle rustling. I doubt that's the feeling you're going for. It's blocky in a 19th-century sort of way.

If you haven't already, try making the bat a dark color (blue?) in contrast with the rest of the silhouette. Joe Jackson famously wielded the bat "Black Betsy," and so a dark bat might make the identity of your silhouette clearer. Then again, it might suck, but you should at least try it and see what it looks like.

[fiasco!]

great critique, BW....in fact, i did try the black betsy angle, and it didn't work as well as i would have liked it.

i'm gonna work a greenville skyline in between foul poles and see how that looks....the font choice, obviously, is uninspired, but i wanted to get the general idea of the logo out before the 3/18 deadline for the league.

i'll post updates as they happen....thanks again.

[Shmee]

i like it, but as mings! noted, i think it's a step below some of your other things. the most obvious comparison to make is to your ambassadors logo, if nothing else because they're both fantasy baseball logos and you used the same color scheme for both.

one thing you did very well here is the nasssty silhouette of shoeless joe. awesome there.

the rest leaves me wanting, though. one of the key things about the ambassadors logo is that it fits together so well. the bridge, the wordmark, the ball, everything just locks in perfectly. this logo feels disjointed.

there's a baseball field with stitches, a cutout of a baseball player, and a wordmark... three very easily indentifiable elements, but it doesn't really feel like they all go together. i'd suggest encasing joe in a cirlce, put some of greenville's more recognizable buildings or structures or landmarks in the background, and have the words either run across the bottom or around the circle.

be good, homie.

[Korkie]

I love it. I was working on something very similar, shoeless joe silhouette and all. My team was the Greenville Black Sox and the colors were dark green, black and silver. I like the colors and as been shown before work well together on a uni. The Naturals font is a bit big and bold, but I like the older school style of it. One Idea instead of the ballfield in the background, maybe you could use hills (Greenville being located in the appalchain foothills) or something a bit more locally distinctive, like the Greenville skyline you suggested. As a former Greenville resident myself, I like it and would like to see the uniform set down the line.

[fiasco!]

thanks for the feedback, this reminds me of why i joined this board in the first place.....good stuff, guys.

now for the execution of the feedback.

all comments welcome.

[paynomind]

Joel, nobody has got more love for you and your insulated forehead than I.

That said...

This version aint all there. As much as I agreed with Wonk (nice feedback, BTW) I think we took a little step backwards here. But, sometimes one step back to make 6 steps forward. Lets get you forward now.

the skyline being in the foreground is odd... it should be further back than that or it doesnt really seem like a skyline, the scale messes up. Right now, it kinda looks like Joe is batting in a warehouse full of boxes. Stop playing baseball, and get those on the UPS truck, Joe!

Speaking of Joe, I felt the antiquity, the honor, the respect for Joe far more when he was orange. Being the same color as the mountains turns him into a giant mountain himself. As if he was carved out of one. I think Getting him back orange would help.

The wordmark is now in a classic looking font, but it is very spaced out. Adjust your kerning a little on it and I think it will tighten up. I'm thinking you may need to add a box around the words to help unify them, particularly in that font. As it is, that would block the agreed upon best aspect of your logo, Joe. So, scale it down to about 3/4 and try reversing the curve, with large first and last, with a drape of the other letters down, under joe. I think a dimensional box, maybe with a light pinstripe in the background could really accentuate the age and era you want to portray.

I like where we are headed, but we?ve got a couple blocks till you?ve got a winner.

[Mings]

I think enclosing Shoeless Joe, the mountains and the skyline in the diamond you have from the first version would be a good idea. You could have Joe in the foreground with the mountains and skyline in the back. That would help bring everything together. I do like the font used in this one, but also agree with the suggestions that J.R. said.

[Korkie]

I agree with paynomind here, Joel. I like the first set better. What I would do is have Joe (go back to orange or use blue) in a circle or ballfield diamond with the skyline and mountains behind him, ala the Mets. I would shrink the font and put it under the circle and have a thin outline surround the whole thing to tie it together. Or just eliminate the background and use the silohette on top of the wordmark.

EDIT: Sorry, Joel, one more idea. Maybe you could model the logo after the orioles logo.

Just replace the bird with Joe and obviously the wordmark. I think an old-school cursive wordmark would work well with this concept also.

[FiddySicks]

Dammit. I thought this was gonna be a logo of a girl with huge cans.

You dissapoint me so...

[winters in buffalo]

I see your dilemma. The silohuette of Joe on its own isn't enough, but adding anything significant takes away from the most important part of the design.

Maybe back up to Shmee's suggestion and look to a simple circle to pull it together.

Here's what I envision:

Joe, in orange, standing boldly as the centerpice.

Behind him, a pale orange or a light blue circle, with a heavy dark blue outline.

"Greenville", in white lettering within the blue outline, and then your wordmark big & bold across the bottom.

If you can pull off something local without taking away from Joe, that could work too

.

[slapshot]

I don't know. I'm really not feeling this one. Even the silhouette alone, it feels like it's missing something. Maybe just a little bit of highlights to add some depth to it. It looks like he's a left handed batter, so some highlighting might make the shape more evident. It will really make him stand out against the skyline in the background.

The script needs a lot of work. The lettering looks very awkward and unevenly kerned. I think it should be bolder as well. Really sell the name "Naturals". Maybe a script font? At least an italic one. It would really drive home the feeling of baseball. And using a script would keep the old-time theme going on, considering the nature of the nickname and logo. If you add a tail to the S at the end of Naturals and sweep it back under the name, you might even be able to fit "Greenville" inside it. And by emphasizing the script, you may not have to show Jackson's legs, which would be obscured by the name itself.

If you make the lettering a script font, you could make it 3-d like the Orioles wordmark, and then you wouldn't have to put it in its own box. The silhouette is a very striking shape, I think it needs an open wordmark instead of one in a box.

[Shmee]

i dun got made something, morris-jane!

or not. here's what i did. i took your shoeless joe, cause it kicks ass. then i put it in the circle logo i had imagined. then i put in a random fake skyline that i drew just to fill the circle.

i used copperplate, which is tabboo to you and many other designers, i know, but it fits well and is easy to work with quickly, so don't let my poor font choice affect your thoughts about the possibility of a logo like this.

i'm a sucker for compact logos that fit a certain mold. don't think i'm stepping on your toes or anything... just trying to show you what i mean through illustration rather than written word. i got bored and was playing around, figured i might try to give a quick shot at something i thought might look good.

[winters in buffalo]

I was thinking of something that had Joe emerging from the circle, not contained within.

[Shmee]

I was thinking of something that had Joe emerging from the circle, not contained within.

Even better. Good call.

Do what he says, Joel. He's smart.

[paynomind]

Was Joe a lefty or righty? When I see a silhouette (sp?) i always assume I'm looking at the person head-on, so I assumed he was a lefty.

[fiasco!]

i took the great feedback and am rolling with it.

the general shape/outline is like the shape of the hundreds of "historical place" signs scattered throughout the region. kept the skyline and mountains. kept joe larger than life, but bursting through the sign.

still gotta work on the wordmark, which will cross the logo where most of the white space is, but i wanted to check in and see if you guys think i'm heading in the right direction with this one.

thanks for all the comments.

[Mings]

I think it can be simplified (the skyline and mountain part), but definitely keep the shape of the sign. Its a much better way to go instead of the circle or diamond. I would maybe have joe a little larger with no outline, and maybe do the little scroll design that the signs have in the corners on them. Or another option is have the top part of the sign have the team name, like how these signs have the place name, and then have the pictoral part on the bottom and include the scroll things.