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Marlins Name Change

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San Antonio Generals works and witha  middle finger lifter toward Mexico it shoudl be a Genral Sam Houston on the logo.

You have GOT to be kidding.

How about Miami Marlins?

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If you build it they will stay.

But no the Panthers and Heat needed spearate Areans

That's actually Mickey Arison's fault. When the Panthers originally built what was then the National Car Rental Center, then Office Depot Center, now Bank Atlantic Center, the 'Cats offered an option to the Heat that they could move with them to their new Sunrise facility. Mickey Arison basically gave them a "HELL NO!" and had his own stadium done. I think it was an incrediby stupid and selfish idea, but it happened.

On a sidenote, I went to Saturday night's Marlins vs. Nationals game and they had about 15,000 fans. I'm sitting there thinking any other ballpark on Saturday night, no matter who is visiting, can get 30,000. The Marlins barely got half of that. The fans there were the real diehard fans because that's all that's left. A bunch of face painting weirdos...hehe. The stadium also closed down most of their concession stands and sent home the employees by the 7th inning because they couldn't sell enough food.

I asked some fans around me "So what do you think about the Marlins leaving?" Most of the kids were really angry about it, but the adults said "Well that's okay I'll just go back to being a (Yankees/Mets/Red Sox/Insert Team Here) fan." I've talked to dads in the area who take their kids to Marlins games and say "Well we just want to watch baseball, but my son better grow up a Yankees fan if he knows whats best for him!" That's stupid! If you live in Florida you should have your kid grow up a Marlins fan or this apathy for the team will continue forever. People here view the Marlins as "well if theres nothing better to do lets go see the Marlins because I'm bored." They'd rather go get drunk in South Beach, party, go celebrity watching, or whatever.

South Florida also ignores the NCAA Final Four. The sports talk radio shows were trying to get people to call in and nobody did. The fans here aren't real fans. The Heat fans are big now because of Shaq and Wade and because celebrities go to games now. Panthers fans are average. The Dolphins have a hard time selling out now because they had a few bad seasons. This year it might turn around though. Basically if you dont win people won't watch because Florida fans are not sports fans. They're EVENT fans. If a team makes the championship they'll go because its a national spotlight EVENT. It's the cool thing to be able to go so they go. It's a chance to flash their money. That's what South Florida is all about. It's sad but true.

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Am I the only one concerned with division alignment?  While I don't like the NL Central six team/Al West four team discrepancy, the divisions as are at least make sense.  So if the Marlins move to San Antonio or Portland, what sense while that make? 

How about, I don't know, a team in Portland, ME?  Well, maybe not...  Indianapolis?  Nashville?  Memphis?  Hartford?  Columbus?  Those cities all make more geographic sense than Las Vegas, San Antonio or Portland.

Moving them to las Vegas, Portland, or anywhere west of Texas would allow for division realignment - put them in the AL West and move the Pirates to the NL East.

Except that that would leave each league at 15 teams-the way baseball schedules things, you need the leagues to have an even number of teams.

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Moving them to las Vegas, Portland, or anywhere west of Texas would allow for division realignment - put them in the AL West and move the Pirates to the NL East.

Except that that would leave each league at 15 teams-the way baseball schedules things, you need the leagues to have an even number of teams.

Yup. Can't have 15-team leagues.

As much as I like NL realignment to bring the Pirates into the East, another possibility: Move the Marlins west (San Antonio, Vegas, whatever), put them in the AL West, then move Tampa Bay into the NL East. That would leave the AL East as the four-team division, which is the right division to have only four teams. It would give Tampa Bay a chance to compete in a more level division, and give Atlanta a closer geographic rival inside the division. Both Florida franchises are young enough that a league switch would be no big deal, and that kind of swap seems at first blush to make good sense for all three affected divisions.

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Montreal?

I love that idea!

Bring Back the Expos!

But really, i think they should go to Indianapolis. I dont see why they dont have a team(i just set myself up for someone to tell me why they dont have one)

Yeah, maybe the Indianapolis Arrows can finally become a reality.

:P

I would name them the "Indiana Vroom Vrooms" (bow)

How about if Peyton Manning goes in on the ownership. Then, you could call them the Indianapolis Chokes. Oh wait, that name is already taken.......

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(sure the ACLU would have a heart attack, but I like the name.)

No they wouldn't. They don't care about the Saints, Angels, or Padres.

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Maybe I'm wrong on this one...but isn't there already a minor league club in San Antonio called the Missions? I have family that lives down there and I could have sworn I saw a bunch of advertisements for the Missions when I was visiting - but maybe not.

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There seem to be three favorites for a new team (although I still think the  league will contract rather than relocate).

Yeah, that's something that most have forgotten about: the MLBPA signed off on allowing MLB to contract teams after the 2006 season. It's entirely possible (albeit not necessarily likely) that the Marlins could be contracted along with some other club.

The last CBA allowed for the "discussion" of contraction. The players didn't agree to it, they just agreed that they'd sign the deal in 2002 if Bud didn't bring it up again until 2006.

Don't expect it. From what the local radio hosts have said, the negotiations are actually quietly moving along and there will probably just be some tweaks to the current deal.

I know, way off topic.

And I vote Vaqueros or Buckaroos.

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Interesting article in the Sun-Sentinel today:

HYDE: It's OK to use public money to keep Marlins

Published April 18, 2006

One thing we professional sports writers love to do is show we see the "big picture." We do this in various ways. We always say a tragic event puts "sports in perspective." We never use the word "courage" in conjunction with athletes.

When discussing the eternal Marlins stadium issue, we also say no public money should go for something so frivolous. None. Zero. Stadium? Schmadium. Then we say where such public money instead should go: To our schools.

You should see the love mail we get taking a hard-line stance like this. Readers salute us. Peers respect us. "You see the big picture,'' they all say. And I know, because I've said this for years.

But have you seen the news lately?

Miami Beach recently sent its residents a $200 rebate because of a revenue surplus. That money wasn't used to upgrade schools. OK, that's just one, relatively small city. And everyone needs a rebate, right?

Let's look on the grander scale: The state of Florida now has an estimated $7 billion surplus. Of that, about $1.8 billion has been earmarked to help our schools that rank annually among the nation's worst. That sounds big. And we'd all agree it's important. It also leaves more than $5 billion in, well, surplus.

This shows the hole in the big-picture theme of schools vs. stadiums. It's not really schools vs. stadiums. It's never been schools vs. stadiums. Our local and state governments are awash in increased revenue from increased land values and you see schools still only get so much attention.

You also see the normal push and pull for that loose change. Take two sports-related bills whizzing through Tallahassee. One would grant Homestead raceway a $2 million exemption on sales tax for the next 30 years. That's $60 million.

Why should it get that? Well, because six other sports teams and venues in our state have got such money in recent years, that's why.

The second bill would give $15 million each in state money to upgrade various spring-training stadiums. Here are the cities (and teams) that would benefit: Sarasota (Reds), Bradenton (Pirates), St. Petersburg (Devil Rays), Winter Haven (Indians) and Fort Lauderdale (Orioles).

That's $75 million from the state. With the demanded matching funds from each municipality, it's $150 million in public money going to spring-training stadiums. This isn't new. It was done in 2000 for five other cities to the tune of approximately $150 million, too. Why?

"So teams won't go to Arizona for spring training,'' said Nick Gandy, the director of communications for the Florida Sports Foundation, an arm of the state government. "It's a way to keep teams in Florida."

So up to $30 million of public dollars could be spent to keep the Baltimore Orioles playing at Fort Lauderdale Stadium for six weeks a year?

"That's right,'' Gandy said.

What about $30 million going to keep the Marlins in South Florida forever?

"No, we're not working on anything like that,'' he said.

Why not?

"It's just not a proposal,'' he said.

You can say $30 million isn't much. But it's reportedly the exact amount that caused a Miami-Dade proposal to build the Marlins a stadium to fall through.

This doesn't just show officials are indiscriminate in deciding how to toss around public money. We, the public, also are indiscriminate in caring where public money gets thrown around.

Look, this isn't because San Antonio now has set a deadline on dealing with the Marlins. Forget San Antonio. The Marlins aren't going to San Antonio. It makes no sense for them or baseball other than to show someone else is semi-interested.

The question remains what makes a community a community. Is it a Miami Performing Arts Center (revised price tag: $446 million)? A Broward hockey arena (price tag: $212 million). Or is it all such things that a community can afford?

Jeffrey Loria is the third Marlins owner to try to make baseball work in South Florida. He's the third fighting for a new stadium. At some point, the owners aren't the problem.

It's true, Loria has a weapon no owner has had -- $30 million in annual revenue sharing from fellow owners thrown the Marlins' way. He should put that toward a stadium for several years. If so, the big picture of what makes a community tick, says there's enough public money out there to meet him halfway.

David Hyde can be reached at dhyde@sun-sentinel.com.

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They averaged in the 20's the last two months of that season.

OOOOOH.

Yeah, TV ratings are great, but you need to sell tickets. Guess what? It's humid in St. Louis. It rains in lots of cities. They show up to their games. Maybe--get this--Miami can't support a ball team.

By the way, Chaparrals might be a good SA name, but I don't want a team there.

It doesn't rain in the Midwest like it rains in Miami. In this subtropical climate thunderstorms can form at any moment of the day. Whereas up north you guys get your rain from fronts.

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I know, but it's still a terrible excuse.

"I can't go watch the Marlins in a pennant race: it might rain today!"

Marlins fans have to actually go to the ballpark they have, or politicians won't see any benefit in building a new one.

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Time to bring in Soccer style relegation to MLB.

I know it is a pipe dream, but I love the idea that the worst NL and worst AL team would be sent down to AAA, or even better, that they would play a best-of 7 series with the PCL and IL champions to stay in MLB. MLB could create a AAAA league out of the worthy cities of the AAA and have them as pseudo-big league, a 2nd division.

These cities could push for AAAA status, bigger or better stadia and a chance each year to move up to the bigs (Sorry KC, Miami...you have to beat the Durham Bulls or Las Vegas 51's to stay in MLB)

Albuquerque

Buffalo

Charlotte

Columbus

Durham

Indianapolis

Las Vegas

Memphis

Montreal

New Orleans

Oklahoma City

Portland

Sacramento

Salt Lake City

San Antonio

Vancouver

Did I miss any?

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Am I the only one concerned with division alignment?  While I don't like the NL Central six team/Al West four team discrepancy, the divisions as are at least make sense.  So if the Marlins move to San Antonio or Portland, what sense while that make? 

How about, I don't know, a team in Portland, ME?  Well, maybe not...  Indianapolis?  Nashville?  Memphis?  Hartford?  Columbus?  Those cities all make more geographic sense than Las Vegas, San Antonio or Portland.

Moving them to las Vegas, Portland, or anywhere west of Texas would allow for division realignment - put them in the AL West and move the Pirates to the NL East.

Except that that would leave each league at 15 teams-the way baseball schedules things, you need the leagues to have an even number of teams.

The NBA doesn't have any problems with their 30 teams.

Get rid of the DH and just have more inter-league games. With 52 series or so a year, every AL team could play an NL team for one series, and still have enough games left to play everybody in their division for four series, ans the other teams in their league for two series.

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San Antonio Missions= AA farm team for the Mariners

My vote goes for the Vaqueros de San Antone

The San Antonio Cowboys? :shocked:

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Time to bring in Soccer style relegation to MLB.

I know it is a pipe dream, but I love the idea that the worst NL and worst AL team would be sent down to AAA, or even better, that they would play a best-of 7 series with the PCL and IL champions to stay in MLB. MLB could create a AAAA league out of the worthy cities of the AAA and have them as pseudo-big league, a 2nd division.

These cities could push for AAAA status, bigger or better stadia and a chance each year to move up to the bigs (Sorry KC, Miami...you have to beat the Durham Bulls or Las Vegas 51's to stay in MLB)

Albuquerque

Buffalo

Charlotte

Columbus

Durham

Indianapolis

Las Vegas

Memphis

Montreal

New Orleans

Oklahoma City

Portland

Sacramento

Salt Lake City

San Antonio

Vancouver

Did I miss any?

:notworthy::notworthy::notworthy: Greatest idea in sports history since the Super Bowl.

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Am I the only one concerned with division alignment?  While I don't like the NL Central six team/Al West four team discrepancy, the divisions as are at least make sense.  So if the Marlins move to San Antonio or Portland, what sense while that make? 

How about, I don't know, a team in Portland, ME?  Well, maybe not...  Indianapolis?  Nashville?  Memphis?  Hartford?  Columbus?  Those cities all make more geographic sense than Las Vegas, San Antonio or Portland.

Moving them to las Vegas, Portland, or anywhere west of Texas would allow for division realignment - put them in the AL West and move the Pirates to the NL East.

Except that that would leave each league at 15 teams-the way baseball schedules things, you need the leagues to have an even number of teams.

The NBA doesn't have any problems with their 30 teams.

Get rid of the DH and just have more inter-league games. With 52 series or so a year, every AL team could play an NL team for one series, and still have enough games left to play everybody in their division for four series, ans the other teams in their league for two series.

Heresy! You are about to be burned by hordes of raving traditionalists with Peter Gammons as the high inquisitor. :P

Baseball traditionalists like the spirit of having two separate leagues that never play with the exception of a couple of weeks in the summer and for the championship...if that. I'm not sure you could get a fully integrated schedule through with baseball...especially considering that a sizable chunk of the fanbase wasn't thrilled with interleague play to begin with.

cappital-can I buy pot from you?

I think you'd have bigger problems from the owners and cities than you expect-the whole major/minor stigma. Then you have to explain the devaluing of their investment to the demoted owners. Also, with the way the financial system of MLB is set up right now, IMO, you'd just have the same teams switching back and forth every couple of years.

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Indianapolis Arrows :cry:

It's sad the deal didn't get done. I would just like the AAA Indians to adopt the Arrows name, logos, and uniforms. But with four teams surrounding them in Chicago, St. Louis, and Cincy, it just wouldn't fit. You could make a five-team division that would all be within four hours driving distance from where I'm at.

About previous comments stating the Marlins should move to a city that would geographically- align the divisions; is not the point of a relocation. The point of a good relocation is a city that will embrace the team and provide a stadium among other things. Moving the team to Nashville or Memphis or Indy just to satisfy a correct geographical alignment is not a top priority of an ownership group. If those cities could provide fans, a facility, large metro-area and as long as all other conflicts are settled, than certainly those cities could have a team. It's just their not ready.

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Time to bring in Soccer style relegation to MLB.

I know it is a pipe dream, but I love the idea that the worst NL and worst AL team would be sent down to AAA, or even better, that they would play a best-of 7 series with the PCL and IL champions to stay in MLB. MLB could create a AAAA league out of the worthy cities of the AAA and have them as pseudo-big league, a 2nd division.

These cities could push for AAAA status, bigger or better stadia and a chance each year to move up to the bigs (Sorry KC, Miami...you have to beat the Durham Bulls or Las Vegas 51's to stay in MLB)

Albuquerque

Buffalo

Charlotte

Columbus

Durham

Indianapolis

Las Vegas

Memphis

Montreal

New Orleans

Oklahoma City

Portland

Sacramento

Salt Lake City

San Antonio

Vancouver

Did I miss any?

Imagine the Seattle Mariners playing the Tacoma Rainiers for the right to play in MLB. Winner gets Safeco Field.

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