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Charlotte (But their Minor League ballpark, which is expandable like Buffalo's I think, is in SOUTH CAROLINA!)

Yeah, the stadium's in South Carolina. Does that matter? Charlotte sits squarely on the border between NC and SC, and their teams draw fans from both states. Just like Philadelphia sits on the border of PA and NJ, and a huge chunk of the Philadelphia fan base resides east of the Delaware River, all the way to the Shore. The Kansas City teams draw from Kansas and Missouri; the St. Louis teams draw from Illinois and even Kentucky, and so on. New York's metro area includes 3 states - NY, NJ and Connecticut. I fail to grasp how the Charlotte team's stadium location precludes the city from being a viable MLB site.

It doesn't if you can do without Charlotte's extensive corporate and banking communities.

Are you saying that Charlotte's business community wouldn't make the trip across the border and support the team? From what I've seen of teams in similar state border situations, support comes from both sides of the river. I know South Jersey heavily supports the Philadelphia teams, on the level of the individual fan and also the level of corporate support, and Delaware makes a contribution despite being a little farther down the highway. The banks would gobble up enough of the club boxes to make a club viable.

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3. New Orleans- They deserve a MLB team.

No MLB team deserves New Orleans.

As for having to move the Brewers back to the AL Central, obviously the two teams would go to the AL, since the whole reasoning behind putting the Brewers in the NL was to make Milwaukee a National League town again like it was for the Braves, and to sell more tickets by bringing the Cubs and Cardinals into town. Selig put his Brewers where they are for a reason; he's not going to just put them back. But I've said too much; you're obviously not thinking straight if you think New Orleans can support the major leagues.

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3. New Orleans- They deserve a MLB team.

I'd be interested in hearing your argument as to WHY New Orleans "deserves" an MLB team.

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Some things to consider about a new market if the Marlins were to move:

1. How close is it to other cities with major league clubs? You don't want it too close. Look at the headache MLB had with the Orioles of the relocation of the Expos to Washington. Plus, you want a team to go into an area that's hungry for MLB (look at what happened when baseball moved into Denver). Ideal candidate cities in this category: Charlotte and Buffalo.

2. You want to move to a city that has a strong baseball tradition, preferably more interest in baseball than other sports. Ideal candidate cities in this category: Louisville and, to a certain extent, Memphis.

3. You want to move to a city that has the population base to cover long-term interest. Ideal cities in this category: San Antonio and the northern New Jersey cities.

4. You want to move to a city that's economically strong. Ideal cities in this category: Portland and San Antonio.

5. You want to move to a city that already has a stadium that will temporarily hold a major league team until a new stadium is built. Ideal cities in this category: Buffalo, maybe San Antonio.

6. You want to move to a city that definitely will build a new stadiu. Ideal city in this category: Portland.

Now, you play Marlins owner. Looking at all of these, where would you want to move?

Me? Maybe Portland.

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4. You want to move to a city that's economically strong. Ideal cities in this category: Portland and San Antonio.

you can add Charlotte to that category too.

"More banking resources ($1.8 trillion) are headquartered in Charlotte than in all but one other U.S. city. Five of the nation?s top 150 banks operate in Charlotte; The nation?s largest two banks based on deposits, Bank of America and Wachovia, are both headquartered in Charlotte. Their combined deposits total more than one half trillion dollars."

Top Cities (with 7 or more Fortune 500 HQ)

Rank City            HQ

1  New York City 43

2      Houston            20

3  Atlanta            14

4 Chicago            10

5 Charlotte    8

5 Dallas              8

7 St. Louis            7 

7 Cincinnati    7

7 Milwaukee  7

10 Minneapolis  6

10 Philadelphia    6

10 Pittsburgh    6

and only one of them doesn't have an MLB franchise, hmmmmm.

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from a lifelong Charlotte native's view:

It would be nice, but i don't think my city is quite large enough to support MLB for everyday attendance.

as for the other tidbits i gathered and can answer...

"queen city" in charlotte is for Queen Charlotte (of Mecklenburg-Strelitz), the German-born wife of British King George III (i assume you know him). our county Mecklenburg is also named for her hometown.

as for dgnmrwrw's comments on the Panthers, owner Jerry Richardson has said he'da been happy with a smaller stadium (in the low 60s k), but for a 72k it's a nice place to play. all cities have "fairweather fans", i've seen the hardcores in GB, CHI, and NY take off when the hometeam is sucking wind.

to madmac, i kinda agree, the triangle would be a better fit for baseball fans. but being a homer, i'd rather it be here than there (*wags tounge to the R-A-L) :P

to gameboy, the Knights "Castle" in Rock Hill could be renovated to MLB standards, but they want outta there too, so a new place in downtown would have to be done to get MLBs attention. Rock Hill just ain't gonna get it done. theres not much commercial development like a major ballpark would draw for nearby.

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you can add Charlotte to that category too.

"More banking resources ($1.8 trillion) are headquartered in Charlotte than in all but one other U.S. city. Five of the nation?s top 150 banks operate in Charlotte; The nation?s largest two banks based on deposits, Bank of America and Wachovia, are both headquartered in Charlotte. Their combined deposits total more than one half trillion dollars."

I didn't realize that about Charlotte. Definitely add Charlotte to that category.

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3. New Orleans- They deserve a MLB team.

No MLB team deserves New Orleans.

As for having to move the Brewers back to the AL Central, obviously the two teams would go to the AL, since the whole reasoning behind putting the Brewers in the NL was to make Milwaukee a National League town again like it was for the Braves, and to sell more tickets by bringing the Cubs and Cardinals into town. Selig put his Brewers where they are for a reason; he's not going to just put them back. But I've said too much; you're obviously not thinking straight if you think New Orleans can support the major leagues.

Gee, Let's see.... Radical Realignment...one of Bud Selig's Half baked Ideas.. Did it work?....NOT FOR THE BREWERS!!!!!!!

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Montreal should get its Expos back a la the Cleveland Browns. I was at first thinking New Orleans for another team, but it's a tossup between that and either Carolina market.

As for resulting leagues:

NL East: Montreal, N.Y. Mets, Philadelphia, Washington.

NL North: Chicago Cubs, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, St. Louis.

NL South: Atlanta, Cincinnati, Houston, Miami.

NL West: Arizona, L.A. Dodgers, San Diego, San Francisco.

AL East: Baltimore, Boston, N.Y. Yankees, Toronto.

AL North: Chicago White Sox, Cleveland, Detroit, Minnesota.

AL South: Kansas City, Tampa Bay, Texas, [CHA/Triangle/NO].

AL West: Colorado, L.A. Angels, Oakland, Seattle.

[447]

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3. New Orleans- They deserve a MLB team.

No MLB team deserves New Orleans.

As for having to move the Brewers back to the AL Central, obviously the two teams would go to the AL, since the whole reasoning behind putting the Brewers in the NL was to make Milwaukee a National League town again like it was for the Braves, and to sell more tickets by bringing the Cubs and Cardinals into town. Selig put his Brewers where they are for a reason; he's not going to just put them back. But I've said too much; you're obviously not thinking straight if you think New Orleans can support the major leagues.

Gee, Let's see.... Radical Realignment...one of Bud Selig's Half baked Ideas.. Did it work?....NOT FOR THE BREWERS!!!!!!!

Selig is an ass, but his ideas aren't always half-baked. And that realignment wasn't as "radical" as what Fay Vincent proposed, in which the Cubs and Cardinals would move to the NL West as the Reds and Braves moved to the East. The Cubs put the kibosh on that because it would've meant a substantial number of road games in California, which would mean a substantial number of 9.05 Central starts on WGN. And though it is fun now and then to stay up all night watching the game, you don't want that to be TOO common. At any rate, the Brewers are now reaping the rewards of all those Chicago and St. Louis day-trippers by putting that money into a formidable team. Ask around, and most people in Milwaukee would tell you it worked.

Four divisions is bad news. Nobody ever gets it. The Wild Card is a resounding success, folks. It's not going anywhere. Count on it. It's a part of the game now. So like I've said a hundred times,

AL West: same + Portland

AL Central: same + Toronto

AL East: same - Toronto + Charlotte

NL: same

Now what we could try to do is go back to two divisions of eight each.

AL West: Seattle, Portland, Los Angeles, Oakland, Texas, Kansas City, Minnesota, Chicago

AL East: Detroit, Toronto, Cleveland, New York, Boston, Baltimore, Charlotte, Tampa Bay

But you get to the NL and it's a mess, and you realize why the Braves and Reds were in the West.

NL West: Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, Colorado, Arizona, Houston, Milwaukee, Cincinnati

NL East: Atlanta, Philadelphia, Washington, Florida, New York, Chicago, St. Louis, Pittsburgh

Now the Astros are away from the Cubs and Cardinals. The C&C are away from the Brewers, which defeats the purpose of Milwaukee in the NL. Cincinnati is stuck in the West again, which gives them too much traveling to do, but you can't put the Cardinals in there, arbitrary Mississippi River be damned, because that shoots everything to hell for them too. It's really a mess, and it's best not attempted.

Four divisions is equally bad. You always get one division that's just made of spare parts, and in this case, it's your NL South. You can't pull Atlanta from the division that it's synonymous with. Cincinnati doesn't belong with those other three. It's a total grab bag. Me, I'd rather see a neck-and-neck Wild Card race as the fourth race than a battle between Tampa Bay, Texas, Kansas City, and an expansion team. Let's be honest with ourselves here.

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Montreal should get its Expos back a la the Cleveland Browns. I was at first thinking New Orleans for another team, but it's a tossup between that and either Carolina market.

As for resulting leagues:

NL East: Montreal, N.Y. Mets, Philadelphia, Washington.

NL North: Chicago Cubs, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, St. Louis.

NL South: Atlanta, Cincinnati, Florida, Houston.

NL West: Arizona, L.A. Dodgers, San Diego, San Francisco.

AL East: Baltimore, Boston, N.Y. Yankees, Toronto.

AL North: Cleveland, Chicago White Sox, Detroit, Minnesota.

AL South: Kansas City, Tampa Bay, Texas, [CHA/Triangle/NO].

AL West: Colorado, L.A. Angels, Oakland, Seattle.

[447]

I agree that the Expos never should have left Montreal. If Selig knew what he was doing then they'd still be there. Four divisions wouldn't work and Cincinnati is further north than St. Louis so if MLB was to go to four divisions like this St. Louis would be in the NL South and Cincinnati would be in the NL North.

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Montreal should get its Expos back a la the Cleveland Browns.  I was at first thinking New Orleans for another team, but it's a tossup between that and either Carolina market. 

As for resulting leagues:

NL East: Montreal, N.Y. Mets, Philadelphia, Washington. 

NL North: Chicago Cubs, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, St. Louis.

NL South: Atlanta, Cincinnati, Florida, Houston.

NL West: Arizona, L.A. Dodgers, San Diego, San Francisco.

AL East: Baltimore, Boston, N.Y. Yankees, Toronto.

AL North: Cleveland, Chicago White Sox, Detroit, Minnesota.

AL South: Kansas City, Tampa Bay, Texas, [CHA/Triangle/NO].

AL West: Colorado, L.A. Angels, Oakland, Seattle.

[447]

I agree that the Expos never should have left Montreal. If Selig knew what he was doing then they'd still be there. Four divisions wouldn't work and Cincinnati is further north than St. Louis so if MLB was to go to four divisions like this St. Louis would be in the NL South and Cincinnati would be in the NL North.

Well, that would kind of split up the Cardinals and the Cubs....BRILLIANT!!!

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And that's why we just leave it at three divisions and a wild card.

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Montreal should get its Expos back a la the Cleveland Browns.  I was at first thinking New Orleans for another team, but it's a tossup between that and either Carolina market. 

As for resulting leagues:

NL East: Montreal, N.Y. Mets, Philadelphia, Washington. 

NL North: Chicago Cubs, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, St. Louis.

NL South: Atlanta, Cincinnati, Florida, Houston.

NL West: Arizona, L.A. Dodgers, San Diego, San Francisco.

AL East: Baltimore, Boston, N.Y. Yankees, Toronto.

AL North: Cleveland, Chicago White Sox, Detroit, Minnesota.

AL South: Kansas City, Tampa Bay, Texas, [CHA/Triangle/NO].

AL West: Colorado, L.A. Angels, Oakland, Seattle.

[447]

I agree that the Expos never should have left Montreal. If Selig knew what he was doing then they'd still be there. Four divisions wouldn't work and Cincinnati is further north than St. Louis so if MLB was to go to four divisions like this St. Louis would be in the NL South and Cincinnati would be in the NL North.

Splitting up the Cardinals and Cubs would NEVER happen. It's part of the reason they were both put into the NL East when they first made divisions in 1969, even though both cities are west of Atlanta and Cincinnati. It's one of the 3 best rivalries in MLB, with Yankees/Red Sox and Giants/Dodgers. By this logic, the Cowboys shouldn't be in the NFC East - but they NEED to play the Eagles, Giants and Redskins twice a year. It's good for business.

Also, geography aside, Cincinnati may be in a midwestern state, but they're just across the river from Kentucky and not far from West Virginia, which aren't that midwestern. The proposed NL North covers the Great Lakes and Rust Belt portions of the midwest well, and adds St. Louis for tradition.

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NL East: Mets, Expos, Phillies, GNATS

NL Central: Braves, Marlins, Reds, Pirates

NL Midwest: Cards, Cubs, Rockies, Astros

NL West: Dodgers, Giants, Padres, D-Backs

AL East: Yankees, Red Sox, Blue Jays, Orioles

AL Central: Charlotte Thunder, Devil Rays, Tigers, Indians

AL Midwest: White Sox, Brewers, Twins, Royals

AL West: Angels, A's, Rangers, Mariners

All teams are geograpically allgined properly with minimal disparity.

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NL East: Mets, Expos, Phillies, GNATS

NL Central: Braves, Marlins, Reds, Pirates

NL Midwest: Cards, Cubs, Rockies, Astros

NL West: Dodgers, Giants, Padres, D-Backs

AL East: Yankees, Red Sox, Blue Jays, Orioles

AL Central: Charlotte Thunder, Devil Rays, Tigers, Indians

AL Midwest: White Sox, Brewers, Twins, Royals

AL West: Angels, A's, Rangers, Mariners

All teams are geograpically allgined properly with minimal disparity.

Geograpically aligned? Dude, I'm teaching World Geography next school year, and I've got a seat waiting for you.

Whilst the NL East and West is alright, the Central and Midwest are rather screwed up. (1) Why would you separate the oldest team in baseball with their 3 biggest rivals?

(2) Why would you put the Rockies in a division the Cardinals and Cubs?

Here's your geographical alignment, NL in Blue, and AL in Red (With your expansion teams):

NL%20Map.jpg

AL%20Map.JPG

With your expansion teams, here would be a more sensible alignment:

NL East: New York, Montreal, Philadelphia, Washington

NL South: Atlanta, Charlotte, Florida, Houston,

NL Central: Chicago, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Cincinatti

NL West: Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, Arizona

AL East: New York, Boston, Baltimore, Toronto

AL North: Cleveland, Chicago, Milwaukee, Detroit

AL Central: Kansas City, Texas, Tampa Bay, Minnesota

AL West: Seattle, Colorado, Oakland, Los Angeles

In reality, the best alignment is what they have... except perhaps moving the Rockies to the AL West, and moving Houston to the NL West, though I'm not a fan of that either.

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Top 50 Television Markets (Markets without Major League Baseball in BOLD)

1. New York - Yankees/Mets

2. Los Angeles - Dodgers/Angels

3. Chicago - Cubs/White Sox

4. Philadelphia - Phillies

5. Boston - Red Sox

6. San Francisco - Giants/A's

7. Dallas - Rangers

8. Washington, D.C. - Nationals

9. Atlanta - Braves

10. Houston - Astros

11. Detroit - Tigers

12. Tampa - Devil Rays

13. Seattle - Mariners

14. Phoenix - Diamondbacks

15. Minneapolis - Twins

16. Cleveland - Indians

17. Miami - Marlins

18. Denver - Rockies

19. Sacramento

20. Orlando

21. St. Louis - Cardinals

22. Pittsburgh - Pirates

23. Portland

24. Baltimore - Orioles

25. Indianapolis

26. San Diego - Padres

27. Charlotte

28. Hartford

29. Raleigh

30. Nashville

31. Kansas City - Royals

32. Columbus

33. Milwaukee - Brewers

34. Cincinnati - Reds

35. Greenville

36. Salt Lake City

37. San Antonio

38. West Palm Beach

39. Grand Rapids

40. Birmingham

41. Harrisburg

42. Norfolk

43. New Orleans

44. Memphis

45. Oklahoma City

46. Albuquerque

47. Greensboro

48. Las Vegas

49. Buffalo

50. Louisville

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Maybe the solution is to just move the Marlins to Orlando.

I'm not sure if you're serious or not, but that would be way too close to Tampa Bay. Just guesstimating, but I believe Orlando and Tampa are no more than 75 miles apart. One of the locals can specify for us.

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