JQK Posted November 6, 2003 Author Share Posted November 6, 2003 THe NHL expanded too much, too fast... with the 21 or 22 team league, they could go through this CBA and not lose any teams. but adding 8 teams after San Jose, that's just unhealthy, and everyone knew it.. they knew it then....Now there will be a massive cut in teams, or maybe the collapse of the entire league (and if you don't think that can happen, your blinding yourself to the situation)This is the most serious threat to the extinction of one of the four major leagues in North America ever. It'll be gut-wrenching to be sure... Stay Tuned Sports Podcast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrdevil Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 This is the most serious threat to the extinction of one of the four major leagues in North America ever. It'll be gut-wrenching to be sure...I think that's overblowing it by alot. I don't think the NHL will go extinct, I don't even think the NHL will cut teams.Yes, the NHL has problems. The major one is that it's a hockey league being run by a guy who never watched a hockey game before becoming commish. He's trying to make it like the NBA, which IMO is the most boring sport on earth.The game is fine on the ice. The problems are in the front office because Bettman is messing with the rules, becuase he doesn't know the first thing about hockey. Enforce the rules and the game is fine. Hockey has always been a 2-1, 1-0 game. there is no reason to change it.Personally i think a lockout will only be a few months, if it even happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habsfannova Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Most fans don't want scoring, JkrDevil. The thing is, 90% of fans just hate the NZT. I don't care if the score is 1-0 or 9-7, but I, like the majority of fans, HATE THE NEUTERAL ZONE TRAP! It's not hockey! The odd-man rush and others are hockey. The NZT is a disgrace. And no-one said the Devils were gone, they're staying for the long haul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrdevil Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Most fans don't want scoring, JkrDevil. The thing is, 90% of fans just hate the NZT. I don't care if the score is 1-0 or 9-7, but I, like the majority of fans, HATE THE NEUTERAL ZONE TRAP! It's not hockey! The odd-man rush and others are hockey. The NZT is a disgrace. And no-one said the Devils were gone, they're staying for the long haul.I feel that's because of the media. I don't know about in Canada, but here in America the sports media is like Bettman and soesn't know a thing.I think about it like when there is a big trial involves a big star. Most of the time the media reports on that someone was a rrested a mojarority of people assume they are guilty. Same way with hockey, you have some idiot who has never been to a hockey game reporting on how boring it is and then blames it on trap. Now if you asked that reporter what the trap is, he has no clue. People who aren't hockey fans read or hear this and then start to belive it so when they watch a game they have a closed mind. Let's face it the media has an enormous power over the way people as a whole think.If you took a poll of real hockey fans (ones who know and understand the steatagy of the game), I belive you would find most people think the game was fine.The NZT is hockey, hockey is a defensive game, and it always has been. Except during the 80's when the goaltending was the worst in league history. (that's not counting the war years because then there is an excuse for the best not being there). In fact your team is the one who invented it. The montreal canadiens invented the trap in the 50's. I personally feel the game is played in a too european style game. I want to see more clean legal checking. The puck get moved around more, and they is more heated and exciting. Keep the rink the same size, and keep it 5 on 5. The game is fine.Yes breakaways are exciting, but that's because there is 1 or 2 a game if it happened every play it would get boring. I say increase the legal hitting. Make the game more North American than European. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 In fact your team is the one who invented it. The montreal canadiens invented the trap in the 50's.Interesting this comes up... I believe Poo-tay would disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyzealot Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Whether or not the Devils were in fact the first team to use the trap is irrelavent, the damage has been done and for the forseeable future New Jersey will be remembered (correctly or not) as the team that brought us the trap.Personally...I can't stand the Devils, I have never been impressed with their televised games and I can only assume that poor attendance and lack of fans (compared to their neighbors anyway) is related to that. Granted I'm probably opening myself up to all kinds rebuttle from jkrdevil...but I know I'm not alone in my statements.However I would like to say that the Devils don't deserve to be villainized as much as they have been. New Jersey simply capitalized on a system. What made the system popular was the league itself, or rather the league wide dilution of talent which made the trap such an appealing system. And why not? As we've all seen, the trap can take a modest team and make them a contender, and it elevates a team that is a contender into a sure winner (or about as close as such things get). I honestly don't believe that the trap wouldn't be nearly as successful if the league had a greater concentration of talent than it does now. Teams with more talent would be able to persue more agressive techniques which in turn would make those teams still playing the trap less effective. Perhaps a play stoppage and a contraction would help bring about just such a change. I know its not much...but perhaps thats a hint of a silver lineing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowcap30 Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 the devils are one of the premier NHL teams during teh past 10 years. yes they have poor attendance. its sorta the state of NJ fault if im not mistaken. didnt they not give the medowlands funds to build new arenas? no wonder why all the new jersey teams are gunna come to Long Island... but how would ppl in NJ react if the Devils do move to Brooklyn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyzealot Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 I definately agree that the Devils are one of the NHL's elite franchises...and I don't think the franchise will ever go deffunct (at least not for the forseeable future). But at the same time, I'm sure the league is aware that the team could be doing much better financially if it were somewhere else. Whether that somewhere else happens to be Newark (not likely from what I hear) Brooklyn or some market outside of the New York metro area...I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if once the labor dispute is settled the team becomes a much hotter comodity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrdevil Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Hockeyzealot, i agree with you to a certain exent about the trap. It is the diliusion of talent has brought on the trap. That's why I think taking it out the red line won't work. Yes it works for the Olympics, but that is a big all-star tornament. If you do that in the NHL, teams would start leaving a defenceman at the red line win the the attacking team has control is in the attacking zone. I think the game needs less stoppages, I think there should be tag-up offsides, more hitting which I think would force players to keep moving the puck.As for NJ, I think the lack of attendance can be attributed to they are the 3rd team in the area, plus in order to get to the games you must fight rush hour traffic. There's no mass transit that goes to the meadowlands. I think that train tracks need to be built there to connect Penn station/ MSG to the medaowlands (Yes, I see the irony there would be train tracks connecting the 2 rivals arenas), the arena needs to be renovated and there needs to be resturants and bars built and the meadowlands. The Devils have a very young fan base. I don't think in 5 to 10 years there will be these problems anymore. And all the Rumors about Brooklyn are about the Nets. As I have said before YankeeNets is selling the Nets not the Devils.I think the 1-2-2 trap was brought into the NHL by the Canadiens, and it was popularized by the Lemaire Devils. Thanks for the read Syphi that was interesting. I would like to say I like this general discussion Board. It let's people have friendly debates (like this one), but not clutter up the main board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JQK Posted November 7, 2003 Author Share Posted November 7, 2003 the ride to the meadowlands ain't bad, never was, so it's no excuse, and the Devils have a fanbase in the Northern Jersey counties... The Ranger fans are older and scattered about up here in the north, and south jersey is Flyer turf...The reason no one goes is prices. Working families can't go to these game. You can spend 180 dollors if you bring a guest, and that's including the $10 parking, and the rape at the consession stands...you can easily spend $250-$300 for one night out at a hockey game.... uh-uh.. nope.. i love the Devils, but i will not let them fu*k me up the ass using my fandom as an excuse...Lower the prices, and the CAA will fill up.... Stay Tuned Sports Podcast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronChefShark Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 what hurts the devils as far as thier attendance goes is the fact that thier arena is well, in the middle of a swamp! If they could get an arena built in downtown newark or even in hoboken like Ive read before there will definitly be an upswing in thier attendance. the sharks have done well in attendance (well until this year) mainly because the hp pavilion is downtown. parking is free at the san pedro square parking garage after 6pm on weeknights and all day on weekends. there are lots of casual and upscale dining establishments within walking distance of the arena that cater to the hockey crowd, as well as a lot of bars that offer many game day deals as far as beverages go (lord knows Ive taken advantage of this from time to time )dining options outside the arena = no need to spend money on concessions in the arena.when I go to a sharks game I rarely spend more the $50. because I eat and drink before or after the game and parking is free! of course, the argument against this scenario is that when you get your food and drink away from the arena and park where its free, thats extra revenue the team is losing. but hey, I imagine that a team like the devils would trade those lost concession and parking revenues for a full building any day. US state flag concepts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrdevil Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 SHark that's exactly what the Dev's need to do except it can't be in NEwark, too dangerous. Your car might be stolen from the parking lot, amoung other things.Trust me that would happen, when I was five I went on a family trip to Florida. When we got back a week later out car was gone. It turned out they did checks of the plates, so we were able to find out that our car was stolen before we boarded the plane to go to florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJTank Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 SHark that's exactly what the Dev's need to do except it can't be in NEwark, too dangerous. Your car might be stolen from the parking lot, amoung other things.Trust me that would happen, when I was five I went on a family trip to Florida. When we got back a week later out car was gone. It turned out they did checks of the plates, so we were able to find out that our car was stolen before we boarded the plane to go to florida.An arena in Newark wil be great I go to Newark Bears games all the time and never have any problems.About the crime That's what they said about building a stadiums in teh area where Camden Yards is now. If you build an arena and have a proper police pressance, there would be no worries about crime and it will improve the area around it. www.sportsecyclopedia.com For the best in sports history go to the Sports E-Cyclopedia at http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JQK Posted November 7, 2003 Author Share Posted November 7, 2003 i like the idea of a Newark arena, but a new Meadowlands arena is just as good. The CAA is not that bad, people..And Sharky, what would you know about the Meadowlands and Jersey? Stick to your crappy part pf the world, please... Stay Tuned Sports Podcast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznit1083 Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 I have had fun reading all of the replies. Some interseting points were brought up. Some of these changes do seem realistic.I hope no one thinks I 'm crazy but I have an interesting thought. It's completely hypothetical, but I see no wrong in it (maybe some one will fill me in on how this wouldn't work.Here's my idea: The NHL is on strike. The players are all looking for a place to play since the strike has been in place for about a year and a half. Now, conveniently the WHA has just started up again trying to compete with the NHL. There are alot less teams in the WHA than the NHL. Maybe they add a few new teams or relocating some teams in key cities yearning for hockey (places like Hartford, Winnepeg), and the major cities. Since the league has fewer teams the talent level on each team would be amazing. The ticket prices would stay low because the upstart league is playing in older building and no one is rushing to build new arenas.This is completely hypothetical and maybe unrealistic, but it could work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJR Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Why do you think the WHA picked fall of 2004 to start up? They've been hoping for that all along. They know they can't compete with the NHL (and unlike the original WHA won't try to) but if they can borrow the NHL players for awhile, it'll give the league legitimacy in the eyes of the fans and help their teams establish a following. Remember that if the NHL shuts down, the AHL probably will as well, so there's a big opening for a top-level hockey league. FantasyHockeySim.com || DetroitHockey.Net || DetroitHockey.Net FHL || cjr.dev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiasco! Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Why do you think the WHA picked fall of 2004 to start up? They've been hoping for that all along. They know they can't compete with the NHL (and unlike the original WHA won't try to) but if they can borrow the NHL players for awhile, it'll give the league legitimacy in the eyes of the fans and help their teams establish a following. Remember that if the NHL shuts down, the AHL probably will as well, so there's a big opening for a top-level hockey league.that's what happened with the IHL during the last strike (borrowed nhl players), if anyone in detroit remembers. the vipers were wildly successful while the red wings weren't playing. i remember going to the palace to see marty mcsorley play......also, wayne gretzky had an all star team, 'gretzky's all stars', that toured the IHL during the strike. LinkedIn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyzealot Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 It should also be pointed out just how quickly the IHL crumbled once the NHL resumed. While its never been confirmed (at least in none of the circles I've been privy to) I wouldn't be surprised if the NHL went out of its way to put pressure on the IHL for that very reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habsfannova Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 It should also be pointed out just how quickly the IHL crumbled once the NHL resumed. While its never been confirmed (at least in none of the circles I've been privy to) I wouldn't be surprised if the NHL went out of its way to put pressure on the IHL for that very reason.A very good observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC97 Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 The reason no one goes is prices.Don't get me started again You don't know bad prices until you've been here. --- Chris Creamer Founder/Editor, SportsLogos.Net "The Mothership" • News • Facebook • X/Twitter • Instagram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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