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More proof that retro stadiums are cookie cutters


griffin128

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Someone who thought they could turn the franchise around? Although switching to the NL West would be better.

Not changing until the Dallas Stars give all their pre-Dallas history, logos, colors, unis, name, etc. to the Minnesota Wild.

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I agree that Pittsburgh is the best of the new parks, along with Baltimore, San Francisco and Houston.

But I had this view in the "Friendly Confines" a few weeks ago, and for my money, nothing (currently) beats this...

Wrigley.JPG

"Old folks"

scorepics-ca.jpg

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Washington (especially considering that their AAA team plays in an open air stadium in New Orleans)

St. Louis

Chicago (i think, never been there in July)

Houston (yeah a roof, but it still gets damn hot)

Arizona (same as Houston)

Texas (Rangers)

Florida (Marlins)

Baltimore

Wow, you NorCal people are wusses.

"I'm sorry, Mr. Jocketty, I cannot play for your Cardinals."

"I'm sorry to hear that. What influenced your decision?"

"It's muggy out there!"

Guess what. It's hot and humid in the majority of this country during the summer. Know why? Because it's summer. If you honestly have such a low tolerance for heat and humidity, maybe baseball isn't for you.

Well yeah, your right about that. Professional baseball isnt for me. But i figured that out a long time ago. And really, you shouldnt have me speak for all from Nor Cal. There are plenty of towns in Nor Cal that get hotter than hell in mid summer (Sacramento comes to mind right away). Im a rare exception, i live 6,500 feet above Sea Level in the Sierra Nevada mountains. Im used to it being "hot" when its 75 with no humidity, and it being warm enough to wear shorts and a T Shirt when its 40. Most people are tolerant to the heat but would die in cold weather, im just the other way around.

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On 11/19/2012 at 7:23 PM, oldschoolvikings said:
She’s still half convinced “Chris Creamer” is a porn site.)
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Yeah, I get the whole gamut, temperature-wise around the Great Lakes. I can't comprehend the idea of having a great deal of mild pleasant weather.

♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫

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Isn't Citizens Bank Park just kinda surrounded by parking lots? What's the point of a fashionable brick-and-steel stadium if it's not directly integrated into its neighborhood? I think that's where people have gripes. At that point it's just retro for the sake of retro.

♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫

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In everyone's rating of the worst park I'm surprised Joe Robbie/Pro Player/Dolphins/Dolphin Stadium hasn't been mentioned. It has no ambiance whatsoever. No fans. Nothing baseball about it. Hell, every seat in that stadium has the Miami Dolphins logo on the side. Also you can see the Dolphins ring of honor across the upper deck wall. The only thing Marlins there are the "teal monster" which should go back to a manual scoreboard instead of electronic...and the 1997/2003 World Champions "poster" on the right field wall. Someone get the Marlins a new stadium PLEAAAASE! I know it's had some great memories...but it's not a BALLPARK! There are so few fans at Marlins games that they close the concession stands by the end of the sixth inning now because they can't sell enough food to make it worth keeping open.

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"Every morning in Africa, a gazelle wakes up. It knows it must run faster than the fastest lion or it will be eaten. Every morning in Africa, a lion wakes up. It knows it must outrun the slowest gazelle or it will starve. It doesn't matter whether you're a lion or a gazelle. When the sun comes up, you'd better be running." - Unknown | 🌐 Check out my articles on jerseys at Bacon Sports 🔗
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Isn't Citizens Bank Park just kinda surrounded by parking lots? What's the point of a fashionable brick-and-steel stadium if it's not directly integrated into its neighborhood? I think that's where people have gripes. At that point it's just retro for the sake of retro.

That's about my only gripe with CBP. Besides the other stadiums and the Holiday Inn, there's almost nothing down there between the 2 interstates. There is no neighborhood feel, since the nearest houses are over 1/2 mile away. Furthermore, it makes the irregularities of the outfield wall as contrived as the unnecessary hill at Minute Maid Park. Since the Phillies had square miles of empty land beyond the field to work with, the quirky angles in the wall and varying heights of the wall are gimmicks. There was no urban plan to design around.

Sadly, the Phillies could've beaten the Cardinals to the punch (for once...) and devised a "ballpark village" similar to the one going up in St. Louis. Hell... they could put up 4-story brownstones beyond the center field gate and be landlords of their own Wrigleyville - they'd bring in the bars, the restaurants, the clubs, the shops, the tenants... and they'd get a huge piece of the action. A little ingenuity goes a long way. Eventually, the land that was Veterans Stadium is going to be something - shopping mall, movie megaplex, skating rink - but there's so much potential down there being wasted, it's laughable.

"Start spreading the news... They're leavin' today... Won't get to be a part of it... In old New York..."

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In order for the Mets' run of 12 losses in 17 games to mean something, the Phillies still had to win 13 of 17.

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I agree that Pittsburgh is the best of the new parks, along with Baltimore, San Francisco and Houston.

But I had this view in the "Friendly Confines" a few weeks ago, and for my money, nothing (currently) beats this...

Wrigley.JPG

you're right. got to go there once or twice, and Wrigley is priceless.

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In everyone's rating of the worst park I'm surprised Joe Robbie/Pro Player/Dolphins/Dolphin Stadium hasn't been mentioned...Nothing baseball about it...I know it's had some great memories...but it's not a BALLPARK!

Exactly why it wasn't mentioned.

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Tomorrow's just your future yesterday.

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Isn't Citizens Bank Park just kinda surrounded by parking lots? What's the point of a fashionable brick-and-steel stadium if it's not directly integrated into its neighborhood? I think that's where people have gripes. At that point it's just retro for the sake of retro.

EXACTLY! That is exactly why CBP is a "cookie cutter retro".

If they wanted to blend in with the neighborhood, they should have made it out of asphalt!

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Isn't Citizens Bank Park just kinda surrounded by parking lots? What's the point of a fashionable brick-and-steel stadium if it's not directly integrated into its neighborhood? I think that's where people have gripes. At that point it's just retro for the sake of retro.

EXACTLY! That is exactly why CBP is a "cookie cutter retro".

If they wanted to blend in with the neighborhood, they should have made it out of asphalt!

Um, I'm sorry, but I think your terminology is deeply flawed.

How exactly does that it make it "cookie cutter?" You can call putting it in the middle of parking lots a bad idea, but you can't call it "cookie cutter." In the middle of parking lots is not where most "retro" ballparks are being placed - they're being placed in developments, planned or real.

So given that the ballparks are different in virtually every way, how does that make it "cookie cutter"?

And please don't point to the shared use of one of the most common building materials in the world as your only evidence for them being identical. Even for this board, that's awfully shallow. :P

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Isn't Citizens Bank Park just kinda surrounded by parking lots? What's the point of a fashionable brick-and-steel stadium if it's not directly integrated into its neighborhood? I think that's where people have gripes. At that point it's just retro for the sake of retro.

EXACTLY! That is exactly why CBP is a "cookie cutter retro".

If they wanted to blend in with the neighborhood, they should have made it out of asphalt!

Um, I'm sorry, but I think your terminology is deeply flawed.

How exactly does that it make it "cookie cutter?" You can call putting it in the middle of parking lots a bad idea, but you can't call it "cookie cutter." In the middle of parking lots is not where most "retro" ballparks are being placed - they're being placed in developments, planned or real.

So given that the ballparks are different in virtually every way, how does that make it "cookie cutter"?

And please don't point to the shared use of one of the most common building materials in the world as your only evidence for them being identical. Even for this board, that's awfully shallow. :P

I surrender. This thread is going in circles. Gothamite always has the answer I defer to him from here on in.

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Those Dolphin Stadium photos certainly show a sad, forlon looking place. True, it's not the least bit charming. But go back and look at those photos and imagine every seat filled with a human. Then it would look like a happening, cool place to be.

I mean, there's nothing wrong with a plain looking, utilitarian ballpark that a sellout can't fix. Maybe Florida just isn't a fit for Major League Baseball.

I'm a Twins fan. Like the Marlins, we've won two Series in a park not even a mother could love. But for crying out loud, at least the few Marlins fans can see the sky, sun and clouds, feel a breeze. And based on the photos shown, there doesn't appear to be bad seats.

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The Juice Box in Houston, like alot of the new stadiums, has alot of those retro "cookie cutter" elements. The brick, the scoreboard, the mish-mash of retro baseball nostalgia, etc.

But so what? It's better than sitting in the sterile Astrodome, especially after Bud Adams of the Oilers forced the removal of the giant scoreboard in the outfield.

Minute Maid changes drastically when the roof is closed vs when it's open. I prefer the open and even in the middle of the summer they usually roll the top back right before or after the 7th inning.

My only complaint about Minute Maid is that because of where Union Station is, Houston's skyline isn't seen from most of the park. Plus the development around the park has been slow going. So PNC is far superior in the beauty, and whatever they're calling the one in San Francisco today has better surroundings.

It's reputation of being a band box is a little misleading. Center field is 436 feet. It's in the middle of the pack as far as stadiums that give up home runs.

But it's #2 on the list, right behind Wrigley, so it's pros out weigh the cons.

mmp.jpg

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I've never been there, so I can't speak from up close and personal experience, but Minute Maid Park is awful.

It's gimmicky...a hill? a flag pole in play? the goofy dimensions? all crap.

The music and other crap they play over the speakers ruins the game. The buzzing...the constant Day-O...the fact that it's super loud...ugh...

But getting back to the dimensions...those kill it for me. I'm so tired of seeing Berkman and company flip lazy popups 315-320 ft and get to trot around the bases while the Cardinals players hit 420 foot shots to center that are caught (or if we're lucky they get down for doubles).

Like in the first game of the two games the Cards and Stros just played. John Rodriguez led off with about a 425 ft double. Pujols hit next and advanced him to third on a 415 ft fly out. I believe Houston had their lead on about a 325 ft HR by Berkman. I know that's just the way the park plays, but I think those dimensions are outrageous and wish the MLB had something to make dimensions a little more regulated.

At least when the Cards hit home runs to left, they usually end up smashing them off of the facade instead of hitting cheap ones in the crawford boxes.

I would like to see the Cards get a wall that emulates the wall in Houston and set it in Busch for practices. First they could walk over to the wall and laugh at the distance between the Houston wall and the real wall. Then they could practice hitting cheap home runs.

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It looks like a warehouse or something with the roof closed. I know it needs to be there, but it sure does make it dark and depressing. Like, you look over to left field and it's gimmickpalooza, but the rest of the place is just dismal.

♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫

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My son's middle name is Wrigley and it's not for the chewing gum. Wanted him to understand the value of generational bonds that can remain strong and timeless amd not have religious overtones either...

Wrigley Field is a treasure. Fenway great. Yankee Stadium raw and powerful. But Wrigley, he's in a league all by himself...

Fred Gehrke

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The Juice Box in Houston, like alot of the new stadiums, has alot of those retro "cookie cutter" elements. The brick, the scoreboard, the mish-mash of retro baseball nostalgia, etc.

But so what? It's better than sitting in the sterile Astrodome, especially after Bud Adams of the Oilers forced the removal of the giant scoreboard in the outfield.

Minute Maid changes drastically when the roof is closed vs when it's open. I prefer the open and even in the middle of the summer they usually roll the top back right before or after the 7th inning.

My only complaint about Minute Maid is that because of where Union Station is, Houston's skyline isn't seen from most of the park. Plus the development around the park has been slow going. So PNC is far superior in the beauty, and whatever they're calling the one in San Francisco today has better surroundings.

It's reputation of being a band box is a little misleading. Center field is 436 feet. It's in the middle of the pack as far as stadiums that give up home runs.

But it's #2 on the list, right behind Wrigley, so it's pros out weigh the cons.

mmp.jpg

My biggest issue with this stadium is that it is so dark inside when the roof is closed and it casts some really strange shadows that make it really hard to see the field.

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On 11/19/2012 at 7:23 PM, oldschoolvikings said:
She’s still half convinced “Chris Creamer” is a porn site.)
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I've never been there, so I can't speak from up close and personal experience, but Minute Maid Park is awful.

It's gimmicky...a hill? a flag pole in play? the goofy dimensions? all crap.

The music and other crap they play over the speakers ruins the game. The buzzing...the constant Day-O...the fact that it's super loud...ugh...

But getting back to the dimensions...those kill it for me. I'm so tired of seeing Berkman and company flip lazy popups 315-320 ft and get to trot around the bases while the Cardinals players hit 420 foot shots to center that are caught (or if we're lucky they get down for doubles).

Like in the first game of the two games the Cards and Stros just played. John Rodriguez led off with about a 425 ft double. Pujols hit next and advanced him to third on a 415 ft fly out. I believe Houston had their lead on about a 325 ft HR by Berkman. I know that's just the way the park plays, but I think those dimensions are outrageous and wish the MLB had something to make dimensions a little more regulated.

At least when the Cards hit home runs to left, they usually end up smashing them off of the facade instead of hitting cheap ones in the crawford boxes.

I would like to see the Cards get a wall that emulates the wall in Houston and set it in Busch for practices. First they could walk over to the wall and laugh at the distance between the Houston wall and the real wall. Then they could practice hitting cheap home runs.

Bitter are we?

Houston is not the only one with a short left field...Philadelphia for instance has the exact same dimensions...315. I don't hear many people complaining about their cheap home runs.

Like I said, MMP is middle of the road when it comes to home runs. It gives some away and takes away others. It's not the Astros fault that other than one Brad Lidge meltdown the Cardinals can't score runs there in the post-season. Like you said, it's the same field for everybody.

I've been to MMP a million times, and even though I agree it's alot better with the top off, I don't think it has a warehouse feel with the roof closed. I think the glass wall lets in enough natural light. My pictures are looking straight into the wall so it makes everything else dark. It's actually really cool when there's a storm brewing outside and lightining is striking around the stadium while the game is going on.

It's not awful. It ranked #3 on the website mentioned on the first page. Where is the new Busch Stadium...#13. Not that it means anything of coarse, but it should prove that MMP deserves to be mentioned with some of the best stadiums in baseball.

They roll it back most games around the 7th inning:

1112842837431_ORIGINAL_16151726Cool_Pic_of_Minute_Maid_Park.jpg

Open roof:

Minute_Maid_Park.jpg

IMGP1604.jpg

roof closed:

minute.jpg

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