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More proof that retro stadiums are cookie cutters


griffin128

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You're right in saying that these new stadiums are being retro for the sake of being retro. If you look at Fenway it has its odd angles because it has to fit in the surrounding area:

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And while Wrigley is awesome, Fenway Park is a baseball cathedral.

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I'm bitter sure. No doubt about that.

Philly gives up HRs all over the place, so I never noticed one part being worse than the other.

I'm not complaining about MMP giving up HRs though...I'm complaining about the dimensions. They're just ridiculously uneven and unnecessary. The park is a giant gimmick.

I'm SO glad the Cardinals built a park that should play fair. It's baseball, not some circus show.

I haven't been to all of those parks, so I can't make fair rankings, but MMP at 3 and Busch III at 13 is a joke. The Cardinals built a ballpark, the Astros built a gimmick. But those guys already called normal ballparks cookie cutter, so I guess gimmicks work for them.

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I'm not complaining about MMP giving up HRs though...I'm complaining about the dimensions. They're just ridiculously uneven and unnecessary. The park is a giant gimmick.

The only part of MMP that you can legitamately call a gimmick is Tal's Hill and the flagpoles in center field. Tiger Stadium had flagpoles in play and Crosley in Cincinatti had a hill in center field, but never mind....it could be argued that that one element is a gimmick. But it hardly comes into play. Only once in 6+ seasons has a ball hit a flagpole and there's only been a few plays made on the hill (not counting running up the hill after a catch or the ball rolling up the hill on the fly). Hell, you could call the Green Monster a gimmick, or the vines at Wrigley a gimmick.

And the noise such as the buzzing is just a playoff thing. I go to dozens of regular season games and I've never heard it once.

The short porch is not new to baseball and plenty of stadiums have quarky dimensions. Besides, take away the Crawford Boxes and MMP is pretty symmetrical.

Astros:

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Giants:

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Red Sox:

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Yankees:

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Orioles:

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The only part of MMP that you can legitamately call a gimmick is Tal's Hill and the flagpoles in center field. Tiger Stadium had flagpoles in play and Crosley in Cincinatti had a hill in center field, but never mind....it could be argued that that one element is a gimmick. But it hardly comes into play. Only once in 6+ seasons has a ball hit a flagpole and there's only been a few plays made on the hill (not counting running up the hill after a catch or the ball rolling up the hill on the fly). Hell, you could call the Green Monster a gimmick, or the vines at Wrigley a gimmick.

The big difference there is that those are old stadiums that had those things in play for a legit reason, or they were built slowly into the stadiums over time. It wasn't one "lets throw a ton of CRA-ZY features into one park!"

I know the home runs count for both sides. they don't move the Crawford Boxes back for the visiting team, so I won't blame Astro Home Runs on the park. BUT, I still agree with STL that the dimentions are a joke. The Dimentions at Pac Bell are a joke. The Yankee Stadium dimentions are a joke. Fenway's are a joke. I like Pac Bell (SBC, ATT, whatever) but I think its a little too gimmicky. Just give us nice parks without the bells and whistles.

Busch III isn't without them, but theirs are OFF the field of play where they should be.

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Well I'm going to address the PNC Park stuff in this thread since I'm a Pittsburgh'er? and have been to PNC Park over 30 times.

First, PNC Park was built into the street grid (Federal St, Mazeroski Way, and General Robinson St.) perfectly, so any of its odd angles are not artificial. The Clemente Bridge IMO makes the skyline a unique one. Sure, you can see city skylines in other parks, but not a beatiful golden bridge that is closed for pedestrian traffic on game day.

No home run has ever been hit on the fly into the Allegheny, but a few have been hit on the bounce. In the right field foul area the was a sign that used to count the "river blasts", but since they have been so few, it was changed to "bucco blasts" (which is just any home run hit by a Pirate) a few years back.

I haven't been to many other ballparks, but PNC makes me stare in awe even after 5 years. I sit there and think "We are so lucky to have this beautiful park in Pittsburgh".

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Comerica Park doesn't get the accolades it deserves. Its a well-thought out park, complete with every amenity and side-entertainment you could ask for. Its problem is simple. It replaced one of the legends, "Tiger Stadium". What made Tiger Stadium so great? The sight lines. If you weren't behind a pole, you had an incredible view of the game and the upper deck seats only enhanced this. However, the hallways in the concourse were awful. Wires dangling everywhere and the smell of whiz and hot dogs. Real nice. Comerica is now configured better for hitters now that the bullpen has been moved and seats installed in rightfield where the bullpen used to be. Oh, and the fact that the Tigers have sucked since moving in there factors into it being ignored.

I remember going to games at Three Rivers in Pittsburgh, which was such a crappy stadium for baseball. How about Riverfront in Cincy, etc.

Cookie cutter just because they use brick and some wrought iron? Hardly. These new parks have character and amenities that the old parks lacked.

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For what it's worth, I made a trib to Great American Ballpark and had a fantastic time. The walkways are wide and open, a great seat is to be had for the $5 walk-up price, there's all kinds of kid crap, there is a lot of Reds' history integrated into the park, including a museum, and it's easily accessible downtown.

The only other parks I've been to are the Tropicana Dome and Yankee Stadium, and I had a much better time in Cincy. Say what you will about the mystique of Yankee Stadium, but the Bronx is a hassle and $8.50 beers and $4 hot dogs aren't fun. And, obviously, the Tropicana Dome is a joke.

1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said:

and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags

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Insted of making new stadiums retro why not make them futureistic. Because their are three eras of ballparks. The old, the cookie cutter, the new retro how about a new stadium that looks updated

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Why all the hate towards Citizens Bank Park!?

At least its 100 times better than what we had before!! (The vet)

Anything would've been an improvement.

Not changing until the Dallas Stars give all their pre-Dallas history, logos, colors, unis, name, etc. to the Minnesota Wild.

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Houston is not the only one with a short left field...Philadelphia for instance has the exact same dimensions...315. I don't hear many people complaining about their cheap home runs.

:blink: ??

Better check your facts there, on just about all of the above statement.

Citizens Bank Park is 329 down the LF line, and 330 to the RF pole.

There was complaining about the cheapie home runs, so much so that they removed the first 2 rows of seats in left field and raised the wall by 2 1/2 feet. By all accounts so far, about a dozen balls that would have gone out last year hit the new & improved LF wall.

Moreover, the Crawford boxes in LF at MMP extend pretty far into left field. So not only is the pole only 315, but much of left field is hysterically close, far closer than CBP, which starts at 329, goes back immediately to 334 and reaches 374 by the left-center power alley.

Hell, you could call the Green Monster a gimmick, or the vines at Wrigley a gimmick.

Really? Unlike the totally arbitrary angles in the wall in parks like MMP and CBP, Fenway Park was shoehorned into an existing neighborhood block already bounded by roads. To make playing baseball there even remotely fair, the Green Monster was built. It's the opposite of gimmicky - it was done out of necessity in an attempt to give the park major-league legitimacy (and possibly to protect the buildings across the street). The Wrigley Field ivy could be considered a gimmick, but it doesn't have that drastic an effect on game play. A ball gets stuck in there every couple of seasons, and that's about it. On the whole, it affects the game far less than a hill in center field or a flagpole in the field of play.

"Start spreading the news... They're leavin' today... Won't get to be a part of it... In old New York..."

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In order for the Mets' run of 12 losses in 17 games to mean something, the Phillies still had to win 13 of 17.

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I'd kill for a copy of that for the Twins in MInneapolis.

Amen, spyboy, amen.

Although there is a nice ballpark in the plans, provided the Minnesota State Senate doesn't screw it up.

But a couple of things about the planned new Twins ballpark: It's too bad that it isn't scheduled to be located right against the Mississippi River, as other ballparks (especially Pittsburgh) are next to rivers. Plus, the way it's set up, fans would be looking into a warehouse district of Minneapolis (or it seems to be a warehouse district) instead of looking right at the IDS Tower.

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Those Dolphin Stadium photos certainly show a sad, forlon looking place. True, it's not the least bit charming. But go back and look at those photos and imagine every seat filled with a human. Then it would look like a happening, cool place to be.

I mean, there's nothing wrong with a plain looking, utilitarian ballpark that a sellout can't fix. Maybe Florida just isn't a fit for Major League Baseball.

sadly, this isn't true. I was there for the playoffs in 2003. I am a Cubs fan, and I had just gotten back from Atlanta, where the place was rocking for game 5, as half of the 50,000+ were Cubs fans. I went down to Pro Player, and the place is as bland as could be, even with 65,000 there. Florida isn't fit for a major league team.

The sellout never fixed the plain, utilitarian ballpark, even during the playoffs.

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Those Dolphin Stadium photos certainly show a sad, forlon looking place.  True, it's not the least bit charming.  But go back and look at those photos and imagine every seat filled with a human.  Then it would look like a happening, cool place to be.

I mean, there's nothing wrong with a plain looking, utilitarian ballpark that a sellout can't fix.  Maybe Florida just isn't a fit for Major League Baseball.

sadly, this isn't true. I was there for the playoffs in 2003. I am a Cubs fan, and I had just gotten back from Atlanta, where the place was rocking for game 5, as half of the 50,000+ were Cubs fans. I went down to Pro Player, and the place is as bland as could be, even with 65,000 there. Florida isn't fit for a major league team.

The sellout never fixed the plain, utilitarian ballpark, even during the playoffs.

This doesn't make sense, they had 65,000 people there and yet they don't deserve a major league team because the stadium is bland?

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Those Dolphin Stadium photos certainly show a sad, forlon looking place.  True, it's not the least bit charming.  But go back and look at those photos and imagine every seat filled with a human.  Then it would look like a happening, cool place to be.

I mean, there's nothing wrong with a plain looking, utilitarian ballpark that a sellout can't fix.  Maybe Florida just isn't a fit for Major League Baseball.

sadly, this isn't true. I was there for the playoffs in 2003. I am a Cubs fan, and I had just gotten back from Atlanta, where the place was rocking for game 5, as half of the 50,000+ were Cubs fans. I went down to Pro Player, and the place is as bland as could be, even with 65,000 there. Florida isn't fit for a major league team.

The sellout never fixed the plain, utilitarian ballpark, even during the playoffs.

This doesn't make sense, they had 65,000 people there and yet they don't deserve a major league team because the stadium is bland?

I think he meant that the crowd just wasn't as energetic as the one in Atlanta was. Think about that. Less energetic than a Braves game.

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