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jus2damcrazey219

Mets in Blue

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Prove me wrong...

They yearly ALWAYS have one of the top 5 highest payrolls in baseball and they barely even make the playoffs. Not too mention they have made some of the worst moves in the last ten years of any other team in sports.

They gutted there World Series team in 2000 for no apparent reason and basically ran Mike Hampton the ace out of town so they could lower the overall value of the team so one owner could buy out the other at a reduced price

They have overpaid for the likes of Mo Vaughn, Jeromy Burnitz, Cliff FLoyd, Vince Coleman, Bobby Bonilla (who I think they are still paying), Roberto Alomar jr., Pedro Martinez (he is doing well, but no one was even close to paying him that much), Dave Kingman, George Foster, Bret Saberhagen, Armando Benitez, Carlos Beltran (so far he has a lot to prove), Kazuo Matsui and the list goes on...

They gave away talent like Kazmir for nothing as well as guys like Kevin Mitchell, Nolan Ryan, Jeff Kent,

They hold the record for worst regular season record in the history of baseball

All of this while outspending the market and having little or no discernable direction with the exception of a few World Series years over 20 years ago.

SO I say "poorly run", because how many other teams have the huge payroll and the outstanding fan support of the Mets and keep coming up lame? I can barely think of many other teams that torture there fans as much. Atleast with the Cubs and teams like that, they have no chance most of the years they stink, the Mets owners do just enough to make you feel like you have a shot and then they swipe the rug out from under you. Most of my family are Met fans and you can set your watch by the rollercoaster of hope and then dispair year after year. This year they seem like a really good team, but in Met fashion, I am waiting for something terrible to happen.

There's no question the Mets have made terrible blunders over the years in trading players/signing free agents. But where you're wrong is they did not "dismantle" the 00 World Series team.

Hampton left for more money in Colorado. He claimed the school systems were better, or some bull :censored:, but he bolted for the money. Other than that, their team wasn't really built for a multiple year run. Their stars were aging (Piazza, Leiter, Alfonso, etc) and they didn't really have great depth to begin with (Todd Zeile playing 1st base?). So it's not like a 97 Marlins firesale went on.

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I won't sit here and compare the Mets history to the Yankees in terms of Championships because I'm not going to win that argument, but a Yankee fan talking about other teams over paying for talent. Hi pot, I'm kettle. Wow. I'll admit, the Mets have done their fair share of overspending (I believe they are still paying Mo Vaughn not Bonilla), but let's be reasonable. How many rings has A-Rod, Sheffield, Randy Johnson and Mike Mussina won for you lately? Just curious. A couple more names that I believe the Yanks paid pretty good money for that barely lived up to the hype: Carl Pavano, Jarrett Wright, Kevin Brown, Jeff Weaver, Hideki Irabu, Jose Contreras. If you ask any moderate baseball fan what team comes to mind when they hear the word "overspending" I think the Yanks would be right up there with the Mets, if not more so.

As far as having the worst record in history, it was their first year in existence. Sorry. Plus the Royals will eclipse that record this season.

Also, I think Kevin Mitchell, Nolan Ryan and Jeff Kent collectively have played for every team in baseball.

To me a poorly run team has no fan support and little or no interest in the team.

You can't call it the pot calling the kettle black, because that is not what I am saying.

The players you have just referenced are recent when Steinbrenner took the team over after the lost to the Diamondbacks in 2001. I am talking about a history of not winning. And you can say what you want about the Yankees overspending (I am not a fan of it), but they make the playoffs and compete for the title every year. The Mets payroll is not much further behind them year after year and they are luck y to make the playoffs most years (not counting this one).

Also, having a strong fan base isn't a result of running a team properly, look at the Cubs and the Sox. Some teams are just located in baseball towns. NY was able to support 3 teams in it's heyday and probably STILL could. We are brought up arguing about baseball, the team leadership has nothing to do with it.

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As far as having the worst record in history, it was their first year in existence. Sorry. Plus the Royals will eclipse that record this season.

Small correction here:

The worst record in baseball history remains safely with the 1899 Cleveland Spiders, who finished 20-134, a .130 winning percentage, finishing only 84 games out of first place in the twelve-team National League.

And that's probably an understatement of how bad they were. Consider:

- They opened the season losing 30 of 38 games.

- In June, they decided to quit playing home games. They played out the rest of their schedule on the road, and wound up with an 11-102 record in away games. Some newspapers began refering to the team as the "Wanderers" instead of the "Spiders".

- Pitchers Charlie Knepper and Jim Hughley were first on the staff with 4 wins: Knepper going 4-22, and Hughley going 4-30. I believe that Knepper's .154 winning percentage is the lowest ever to lead a big league team (for one season).

- BTW the team's ERA was 6.37.

The cause of all this was syndicate baseball: the practice of owners having multiple teams under their control. Cleveland was owned by the Robison brothers, who prior to the 1899 season, purchased the National League's St. Louis franchise. The brothers, in a common practice of syndicate teams, sent the entire 1898 starting lineup for Cleveland (every single starter) to St. Louis, which still did not win the pennant, finishing at 84-67, in fourth place.

For the record, the Cleveland Spiders of 1898 finished at 81-68, in 5th place in the 12-team league; the St. Louis club was 12th, with a 39-111 record (only 63.5 games out of first). In other words, the two teams literally swapped positions from 1898 to 1899.

The reason we think of the 1962 Mets as owners of the worst record in baseball is that for decades baseball's official records began with the 1901 establishment of the American League, marking the start of what used to be referred to as baseball's modern era. That distinction has been slowly removed from baseball's official record book since the mid-1970s as more and more research is being done into baseball's early days of professionalism.

However you want to look at it, there's no way you can argue that the 1962 Mets, or this season's Royals are anywhere near as bad as the Spiders were.

End of my history lecture.

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Well look at the Mets this year does anybody doubt tehy are one of the best teams in the NL.

JWS you are correct about the Spiders also the 1935 Braves and 1915 A's had worse winning precentage then the 1962 Mets.

Edited by NJTank

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The reason we think of the 1969 Mets as owners of the worst record in baseball is that for decades baseball's official records began with the 1901 establishment of the American League.......

However you want to look at it, there's no way you can argue that the 1969 Mets, or this season's Royals are anywhere near as bad as the Spiders were.

End of my history lecture.

The 1969 Mets won the World Series. The 62 Mets was the team that lost 140 something games.

  Well look at the Mets this year does anybody doubt tehy are one of the best teams in the NL.

That's not saying much. At least half the American League is better than the best team in the National League.

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That's not saying much. At least half the American League is better than the best team in the National League.

I whole-heartedly disagree. If the pitchers are batting for the AL teams, I'd put all but four NL teams ahead of half of the AL. The Pirates, Cubs, Nats, and Marlins are horrible teams, but the AL has teams like the Royals, Angles, Twins, Rays, Mariners, Orioles, and Athletics. I'll even Include the Indians in that list; they've only played 18 games against teams over .500 and they've played The twins, Royals, and Pirates 17 times, but they're only 23-23.

In the AL you have Chicago, Detroit, Boston, and a bunch of crap.

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The 1969 Mets won the World Series. The 62 Mets was the team that lost 140 something games.

Thanks for the correction. Of course it was the 1962 Mets who were among baseball's all-time worst teams. I edited the original post.

Further proof that one should never type/write a post when you're overtired, and in need of sleep.

Of course, visiting this board seemed like a better idea than going to bed at the time I wrote the original post.

:)

Back on topic, I think the reason the Mets are remembered as the worst team ever in 1962 is that it happened in New York, with "Perfessor" Stengel at the helm of the public relations campaign of the lovable Amazin' Mets.

Neither the Spiders, nor the 1935 Braves, nor the 1915 A's were seen as lovable (or as marketable) as the 1962 Mets.

Lastly, I think that one of the other factors which worked in the Mets' favor throughout much of their lovable losing 1960s was that the team was as anti-establishment (or anti-winning) as any sports team ever. They were not the corporate-owned, establishment, winning Yankees; but an anti-winning team. Simply put, they fit the spirit of the era.

For example, it is worth remembering that the "Let's Go Mets!" cheer that is part of the team's identity was first used by fans when those awful teams would rally during a six-run deficit and maybe cut it to three runs during a mid to late-inning rally. You cheered for the "good try" rather than the Yankees' successful winning.

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