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Cheif illiniwek may be retired


STL FANATIC

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Quick update - the proposed resolution was withdrawn this morning after several members of the University Board of Trustees expressed their displeasure at the lack of advance notice provided.  Apparently, none of the board members had any idea that such a resolution was going to be introduced, therefore nobody was prepared to engage in any meaningful debate or take the first steps in making what could be a huge decision.  The resolution will be "properly" introduced again in July.
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The lady who proposed it said in the post, or on their site that she didn't have enough support so she wanted to table it until July. Then she said that that wouldn't be fair to the students so she's gonna do it in March. My guess is it's probably spring break and she's being sneaky...

While the I logo isn't as nice as the current, I could accept that. The fact is, they won't accept comprimise. It's their way or the highway. They might get rid of the logo and the halftime dance, but then, they'd keep going till they can get rid of the name too. They have to have it all their way, and I'll tell ya what, that offends me...

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See this is what I mean you know SI had a poll a few years back.

Whites are more apt to be offend by names like Ilinni then the Tribes themselves.

Its these white liberals born out of the 60s who think they are the standard setters on comapssion and tollerance and what is racist and what is acceptable, this is how the polictical corectness movemnet got its start.

Todays its names and logos who knows what they wil go after next if they are not stopped now. Team names are not meant to be offensive and ppl who try to protest them have to get a life.

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It's the PC white people with the Liberal GUilt that think just because THEY think something is offensive, that it is offensive to everyone, so it should be banned... College is the home of leftist liberal thought, that's why you've seen all the "contoversial" names drop like flies over the last 15 years...

Man.. gotta stop.... this is going to turn political... gotta get over to GD... :P

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I'm 1/4 Cherokee and names like Braves, Illini, Seminoles, and Indians really don't bother me much. Correct me if I'm wrong but Redskins was originally a derogatory term.I personally don't mind the name, but I can understand the complaints. It would be like putting a team in Alabama and calling them the Coons or N@^^%#s. No offense intended, but I think that that is these peoples point. However, until all thoses L. Brent Bozell wannabes in the world figure out that these names are a part of american history, there will always be complaints about them.
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It's the PC white people with the Liberal GUilt that think just because THEY think something is offensive, that it is offensive to everyone, so it should be banned... College is the home of leftist liberal thought, that's why you've seen all the "contoversial" names drop like flies over the last 15 years...

Man.. gotta stop.... this is going to turn political... gotta get over to GD... :P

Exactly

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When are people gonna realize that when these names were brought up, they were to pay tribute to the groups. This representation of an Indian chief is so the opposite of exploitation. Exploitation is what happens to the student athletes who aren't allowed to get a job at McDonald's because of the possibility of preferred status during the hiring process. The NCAA doesn't want athletes benefiting from their status and they don't want some restaraunt manager exploiting them by saying, "Come to our place and have the world's best ribs served to you by Larry Fitzgerald." The athletes are the truly exploited.

It would be exploitation if someone was making a killing off of some indian likeness, simply because of the likeness. But Illinois t-shirt sales aren't because the chief's face is on them. T-shirts with the chief's face sell because they represent the University of Illinois. PC people want to use derogatory labels that don't even apply. The word exploitation doesn't belong in this argument.

If we can't pay tribute to Indian groups, who on the whole appreciate it, then 2 things must happen. No organization, athletic or not, can use anything Indian. GM has to drop the name Pontiac, and car names such as Aztek. Products such as Red Man tobacco must go (how come no one attacks this? Oh yeah, it wouldn't be as high profile as say attacking an NFL team or major university). Governments must change city, street, county, river, lake, park and state names. Our society must have no tribute to the Native American heritage. Is that what everyone wants? Wouldn't that be terrible?

The 2nd thing that must happen, is we must get rid of other offensive ethnic/heritage names in sports. Vikings, Fighting Irish, Fighting Scots, Eskimos, Cowboys, Knights, Spartans, Trojans, Canadians, Canucks, Americans etc. These names all demean a group of people.

examles of how...

Irish-The stereotype that Irish are hot headed little people must stop.

Vikings-Scandenavians are not all huge blondes that where helmets with horns.

Cowboys? Some of the cowboy logos suggest them to be nothin but gunslinging rednecks

We need to have mascots that are ethically, sexually and gender neutral. We should use only animals and inanimate objects as mascots. Even names like Bucks and Bulls are wrong as they refer only to the males. We must not offend. We must also drop Giants as it offends large people and also makes little people feel left out. Well, while we are on a roll eliminating mascots of all sorts, let's just get rid of the whole archaic practice of even having mascots. We'll just say Michigan and Detroit and Illinois and Chicago. We can say NBA Detroit or the Detroit Pro Basketball Club to distinguish sports. This way, absolutely no one gets offended.

:o

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That was a good post UM, showing just how dumb this PC arguement is, and how unfair it is in itself.

Here's a link to a speech we read in my Adv. English II class earlier this year. It's by Charles Heston, the president of the National Rifle Association. It's not just a fight for use of guns though. That may be his focus behind it, but he just attacks how the world is being taken over by Political Correctness. I don't know how I feel about the gun issue, but there are so many other great points in this speech, so please read it.

http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/Speeches.aspx?ID=22

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Here's a link to a speech we read in my Adv. English II class earlier this year. It's by Charles Heston, the president of the National Rifle Association.

Oh my God, StL, please tell me that you know that CHARLTON Heston has an identity beyond the NRA.

Please tell me you are aware that there was a Planet of the Apes movie made prior to the one starring Marky Mark.

Please tell me you've heard of the movie The Ten Commandments.

You just made me feel 100 years old with your post!

Oh, btw, congrats to Wentzville Holt on winning your first round football playoff game Wednesday night, in a shutout no less!  Care to share with the group what your team mascot is?   :P

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Using ?political correctness? label as a battering ram

By Monroe Gilmour

Posted: Apr 22

Guest columnist Bob Youngerman may have missed the boat on the term "political correctness," but his commentary, "Political correctness another way of saying anything goes" (AC-T 4/6/01), does, perhaps inadvertently, reveal what using that term actually means.

Mr. Youngerman expresses his frustration at how "political correctness" leads society to do things it otherwise would not and should not do. For example, he notes that the media would not give such "substantial coverage" to the Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. holiday were it not for "political correctness" or, its inverse, the fear of being "politically incorrect." He then contrasts that extensive coverage with the paucity of coverage for President?s Day which really should be covered.

Hmmm? Twelve hundred people, Black and White, gather for breakfast in Asheville to commemorate Dr. King?s vision of harmony and justice for our nation, then two days later nearly two thousand people come together for a unity peace walk in Dr. King?s honor. These events get "too much" news coverage yet the near- total lack of public expression for President?s Day deserves more?

Mr. Youngerman concludes that those adhering to a philosophy of "political correctness" "reject long-held honored traditions in favor of the establishment of a new system of beliefs that often promotes an anything goes code of conduct and a collective guilt for the plight of society?s perennial victims..."

The implication is that "political correctness" causes society to take actions it otherwise would not take to fulfill someone?s perceived "political" purpose rather than useful community goals. Society?s actions, in this view, are often not really ?correct,? but only ?correct? for political reasons that push forward an irrelevant, even harmful agenda catering to individuals or minority groups who do not value the majority?s established traditions.

Actually, I have never heard the term "political correctness" used by those initiating an action as a defense or rationale for that action. But I have heard the term used as a one-size-fits-all battering ram aimed at diminishing concerns expressed by those who have, historically, been held down by society. Women who demand inclusive language instead of patriarchal language. Black citizens who demand equal access to jobs. American Indians demanding respect for their religious imagery. Disabled citizens demanding access to education and, yea, even a public toilet.

My experience is that the charge of "political correctness" or its inverse, "political incorrectness" is used by people with power to dismiss or denigrate the legitimate concerns of people without power. Making the "political correctness" charge is, in large part, a way to avoid acknowledging the pain we may be causing because we do not want to deal with having to change our ways to alleviate that pain. In short, using the term is a convenient mask geared toward protecting White or other majority-privilege from challenge by new ideas or demands for fairness. We have no better example locally of this phenomenon than the four-year controversy over American Indian sport mascots at Erwin High School. American Indian concerns over the trivialization of their religious imagery, the stereotyping of Indians as violent, the perpetuating of a century-old Hollywood image of Indians, all this is written off as "political correctness run amuck." One official even, ironically, told local Indian families they should "get a life" and "go back where they came from."

Yet, the State Superintendent called on the Buncombe County Board of Education to make the change so our schools will be more welcoming for American Indians, whose drop-out rate is the highest of any minority group in the state. Former governor James B. Hunt wrote that such stereotyping has a negative impact "on the integrity of our public education system." And numerous Indian educational, psychological, and tribal organizations called on the Board to change.

How did we come to have two such disparate views of what is going on? For many observers, Ronald Reagan began the process of making many Americans comfortable with their prejudices. Rush Limbaugh and similar talk show hosts pushed it further with an in-your-face, antagonistic approach to any minority demands for respect. Using the term "political correctness" became the generic weapon of choice for dismissing a demand without having to consider seriously the substance of that concern.

Buncombe School Board members, themselves, have not yet dealt with the educational or curriculum substance of their decision to continue using the Indian mascot. Instead, through their actions and inactions, they affirm the many charges of "political correctness" made by some Erwin alumni and observers. The U.S. Commission on Civil Rights? April 13 statement calling for schools across the country to eliminate Indian sport mascots drops a real challenge on the Board?s plate. Will the Board deal with the substance of the Commission?s findings or simply dismiss this call, too, as more "political correctness"?

One American Indian observer told me that he has come to see the "PC" in "political correctness" as something different. For him, "PC" stands for "personal courtesy."

Instead of fearing changing traditions, as expressed in Mr. Youngerman?s commentary, we should, out of simple personal courtesy, be listening to the voices of those who have "traditionally" been ignored.

Former slave and famous nineteenth century abolitionist, Frederick Douglass wrote, "Find out just what people will submit to and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them."

The new reality to which Mr. Youngerman appears to object is actually part of the historical river of justice which, over time, and, not without occasional set-backs, flows toward creating a more just society. Throwing up the charge of "political correctness" at those seeking to avoid "submitting to an injustice" may be today?s means of trying to dam up that river.

But history shows that such opposition will over time be swept aside. People in the midst of today?s justice work need be aware of, but not deterred by, such transient remonstrations.

Gilmour is coordinator of Western North Carolina Citizens For An End To Institu-tional Bigotry and may be reached at 828-669-6677 or by mail at WNCCEIB, PO Box 18640, Asheville, NC 28814. He may be reached by e-mail at mgilmour@main.nc.us.

On the Net: www.main.nc.us/wncceib/

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How did we come to have two such disparate views of what is going on? For many observers, Ronald Reagan began the process of making many Americans comfortable with their prejudices. Rush Limbaugh and similar talk show hosts pushed it further with an in-your-face, antagonistic approach to any minority demands for respect. Using the term "political correctness" became the generic weapon of choice for dismissing a demand without having to consider seriously the substance of that concern.

See heres a major part of the problem we have today, in the political arena if you disagree with these views you are a racist. If you are a republican you are a racist.

The taticts are Soviet in nature.

The Left dont allow you debate the issues they just bring up name calling and fear mongering.

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NJTank...

Let me see if I get this straight. You wrote:

"The Left don't allow you to debate the issues they just bring up name calling and fear mongering".

"The taticts are Soviet in nature."

This from a guy whose recent posts in various threads on the boards have included the following:

"Political Correctness is going to ruin this country."

"It's destroying the first amendment and... It also is hurting National Security..."

"Today its names and logos who knows what they will go after next if they are not stopped now."

"If Howard Dean or one of the 9 Democrats win the US will be gone by 2020 will be a Socialist Counrty our freedoms as we know them will be gone."

"they want us to surrender our soverenty to teh world court..."

"All in their long term goal control of everyones lives."

"We defeated the Soviet UNion, but we did not defeat solicisim and Communism they are now in disguise taking over the democratic party..."

You have the audacity to raise the issues of name-calling and fear-mongering after posts like these? Name calling? After reviewing just two threads, I've found examples of YOU labeling members of the Democratic party as Socialists and Communists whose tactics are Soviet in nature. Fear mongering? YOUR posts would have us believe that what you deem "Political Correctness", hand-in-hand with the disguised machinations of the Democratic Party, are (A) hurting national security, (B) about to gain long-term control of the lives of U.S. citizens, and are then © going to hand this control over to the "world court".

Look Tank, you're welcome to your opinions. That's what American heroes like my grandfather (U.S. Navy - Pacific Theater - WW 2), my great uncles (U.S. Army - D-Day & Battle of the Bulge - WW 2) and my father-in-law (U.S. Army Lt. General, retired - Vietnam & Desert Storm) fought for. But don't you dare hide your own prejudices and biases behind the levelling of charges of "name-calling" and "fear-mongering" against others. If you don't like my opinion (or anyone else's, for that matter) on an issue like Native American nicknames in sports, that's fine. Just don't wrap yourself in the American flag while you supposedly "debate" the issue... because it's MY flag TOO!!!

Brian in Boston

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NJTank...

Let me see if I get this straight. You wrote:

"The Left don't allow you to debate the issues they just bring up name calling and fear mongering".

"The taticts are Soviet in nature."

This from a guy whose recent posts in various threads on the boards have included the following:

"Political Correctness is going to ruin this country."

"It's destroying the first amendment and... It also is hurting National Security..."

"Today its names and logos who knows what they will go after next if they are not stopped now."

"If Howard Dean or one of the 9 Democrats win the US will be gone by 2020 will be a Socialist Counrty our freedoms as we know them will be gone."

"they want us to surrender our soverenty to teh world court..."

"All in their long term goal control of everyones lives."

"We defeated the Soviet UNion, but we did not defeat solicisim and Communism they are now in disguise taking over the democratic party..."

You have the audacity to raise the issues of name-calling and fear-mongering after posts like these? Name calling? After reviewing just two threads, I've found examples of YOU labeling members of the Democratic party as Socialists and Communists whose tactics are Soviet in nature. Fear mongering? YOUR posts would have us believe that what you deem "Political Correctness", hand-in-hand with the disguised machinations of the Democratic Party, are (A) hurting national security, (B) about to gain long-term control of the lives of U.S. citizens, and are then © going to hand this control over to the "world court".

Look Tank, you're welcome to your opinions. That's what American heroes like my grandfather (U.S. Navy - Pacific Theater - WW 2), my great uncles (U.S. Army - D-Day & Battle of the Bulge - WW 2) and my father-in-law (U.S. Army Lt. General, retired - Vietnam & Desert Storm) fought for. But don't you dare hide your own prejudices and biases behind the levelling of charges of "name-calling" and "fear-mongering" against others. If you don't like my opinion (or anyone else's, for that matter) on an issue like Native American nicknames in sports, that's fine. Just don't wrap yourself in the American flag while you supposedly "debate" the issue... because it's MY flag TOO!!!

Brian in Boston

Brian it's disgusting on how you are resting on the sacrifices of your grandfather, uncles, and father in law...

The Left is ruining this country. They believe that their view is the only right views, and they will smack you with the racist label faster than anything. You'll have Al Sharpton on your doorstep, crying and yelling for your head if your views aren't directly in line with the that of the radical left. The more i look at the world of politics the more i see how truly screwd up things are... I see how liberal the slant in the media really is... i see how Rush Limbaugh made a comment about how wrong the media was for hyping up a man simply based on his skin color, and then saw how the media lied and told everyone that Rush thought McNabb is hyped because he's black... that's not what he said... but to the left, it didn't matter, they saw a target, had the media do it's work, and before you know it, america was blinded with the media lies once again...

I guess the stupidity of the american public is to blame partially.. the single person is smart... but a group of people.. well... when you get that mob mentality going, there's no stopping it.

I refuse to be lied to by the media... I refuse to have my thoughts ripped from me and have my mind think only what a few select people want me to think. The liberal elite wants America to think the way they do.. that white people are evil, that america is the only evil in the world... just go to any college, this :censored: is stuffed down your throat... and it all sounds so convincing.. until you realize it's all lies.. well spoken lies, but lies nonetheless.

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Brian, I'm curious how you feel about the original topic of this thread. If I recall correctly, you are part American Indian, and do not care much for the American Indian names. However, I seem to recall you saying the the case of the University of Illinois Fighting Illini, and The Chief does not necessarily fall in with the rest of them in your oppinion. Can you elaborate on that again?
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Brian and other Left WIngers dont like that people disagree with them tahts why teh lower tehmsleves to name calling.

Which teh Soviet Union did that is an undinable fact.

Democrats keep saying that Republicans want to kill old people and destory medicare if tahst not fear mongering I dont know what is. Fear was the tool used by the Soviets to control the population.

You knwo there is room for debate in this country but whatteh democratcic party has turned in to is distusting by standards today JFK would eb a Conservative he cut taxes, and tahts something that would lable him as uncaring by his own disgrace of a brother today.

The 9 running for the nomination have the worst qualities of McGovern and Mondale all roleld together they promise higher taxes and a weakened national security.

8 years of Clinton created the opperunity for 9/11 if you dont belive me read teh book dereliction of duty written by a military man charged with guarding the nuclear codes when clinton was in office.  

Now there are a fe wgodo democarts out there but you hardly here them talked about.

But both Zell Miller a Democratic Senator from Gerogia and Ed KOch teh former Mayor on NYC have expressed displeasure in teh direction of the democratic 9 or as Dennis Miller described teh worst collection of 9 men since the 1962 Mets.

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