Detroit Lions logo concept

[VC//]

I see tiny improvements made. But seriously, you need to look at a lion carefully and closely. Look at other Lion logo's and study them.

Your's looks like a house cat on roids, not really a lion.

[VitaminD]

Again, I made some changes that I'm not sure I like, but here they are:

I want to make it good, but you guys need to help. If there is no hope of making it look good, just tell me.

Much, much better. The chihuahua is long gone, long live the chihuahua.

A couple things:

1. the eye isn't working. For one, lions don't have any distinctive eyebrows, where your concept has a prominent, dark, linear one. For two, the iris (colored part) of a lion's eye occupies most of the orbit, and leaves no sclera (white part) visible. On your concept, there is a large white rim of sclera visible below the edge of the iris. For three, the orbit itself has a more humanoid ovoid shape to it; lions' orbits, while not truly round, are more circular than what you're showing here. They also have a slight ridge above the orbit that houses the eyelid, which is obscured by your overdone eyebrows. Since the eye is a focal point in this logo, you need to pay closer attention here to the nuances. My eye is drawn here, and I see errors.

2. the mouth isn't working either. For one, the white around the lion's mouth should go around the mouth, top AND bottom. Lions have a ring of white fur all the way around. For two, the canine teeth need to be much, much bigger. My cat has larger teeth than your lion, and it detracts from what you're going for. For three, your lion is smiling; in actuality, because lions open their mouths so wide, you usually don't see too far back past the canines when their mouths are open. Moreover, the corners of a lion's mouth are downturned at rest, and are open and rounded when panting or with an open mouth. But never with a smile that stretches waaaaaaaaay back away from the front of the face, like yours does. Again, the mouth is going to be what conveys fierceness - it's got to be more precise than this.

The mane and ears are perfect, and it's rounding into form nicely. It looks feline for sure - but the face still looks more housecat and less lion at this point. But keep it up; this is going to be very good when it's all finished, I have a feeling. Good work.

[-(dp)-]

OK, still nowhere close to the final. Thanks vitaminD as well as a few others for your suggestions. I will keep working on this until it looks the best I can get it to look. Please keep the suggestions and comments coming. It seems like the better it looks, less people respond to it. Either people just like putting down other peoples' work, or they see page one and figure that it isn't worth looking at. Anyways, I appreciate those of you who are helping me make it better.

here are some things I see wrong with it:

- eyes look bored, but I don't know how to make them look like he is mad.

- I think the nose looks kind of short again.

- I think you should be able to see his tongue, but I couldn't get it to look right.

- I didn't know what color to make the eyes, because the lions have no color close to that of a real lions eye. I left them white for now.

[ColeJ]

it's looking exponentially better with each update.

[See Red]

This last update looks like it's yawning to me. I'd revert back to how it was, personally. I'm also not a big fan of the white around his mouth -- it's probable just the execution of the white that's getting me. Perhaps if you make the white outline a little ruggeder, if that makes sense. More furry, is what I guess I'm trying to get at.

Perhaps to add to the growl look, you can also add some curvy lines that form a 'V' on the nose where the skin would be bunched up from his growling, if you know what I'm saying.

I would also suggest that you thicken the whiskers.

Perhaps you can add in another, slightly darker shade of gray to highlight areas and add more depth to the logo.

I think the reason for less responses as it gets better is that as it gets better is that the glaring problems decrease or are eliminated and it becomes tougher to pinpoint exactly what's wrong with the logo.

[L-Train33]

youre definately improving this on each try but Im still not seeing much a lion look in the face. Here's an image that might help you with that.

[Jigga]

While it's not "there" yet, it's getting there. This is vastly improved. This is a great example of how heeding C&C can work wonders. You don't need to make it completely photorealistic, but I would suggest looking at as many pics as you can and drawing some kind of inspiration.

Love the direction of this.

[maz]

Looks much more like a lion now. Getting better each time.

It still doesnt look quite like a lion to me yet either, however, like many have said, it doesnt have to be perfecly realistic. PITT tried that with their panther a couple years ago and look how well that turned out...

Yeah, you dont want to go that rout. Maybe try to add alittle more of a sarl to the mouth, thats all i can think of right now.

[whitedawg22]

Looking MUCH better.

I think there are 2 keys to avoiding the "bored" look that you mentioned. First, somehow you have to make the eyes look more fierce and evil. Second, I think it might look a little yawn-y because there's no hint of motion or aggressiveness. A good reference is the current Jags logo:

While you don't want it to look too much like that, because lions' faces are bulkier and differently shaped, notice how the sharp angles and hint of an eyebrow around the eye add aggressiveness and focus. Also, notice how the stylized white lines behind the mouth add motion--it looks like he's biting something. This might also be a good reference for how to do the tongue, although I don't know if the Lions' palette provides a good color to do it.

Keep up the good work; I look forward to the next rendition.

[Brendan]

keep on going each new version is better than the last, im looking foward to seeing the final product

[VitaminD]

This has come a long, long way, dude. Very nice work, and it's been fun watching this evolve into something really well-rendered.

As for the yawning v. roaring problem, one thing about large cats is that when they roar, they tend to close their eyes. So you could do that - although I don't interpret it as yawning to be honest. This would work for me. Other than the above suggestion, I don't have too much more for you. As for other people, there always seems to be a lack of attention after the first go-round; it is very rare that people take so many of the proposed suggestions to heart and you can actually see the progression of a concept from its start to its completion. A lot of people tend to be very thin-skinned and ignore the C&C people leave them; a lot of people leave C&C which doesn't help. Either way, people fatigue easily, I guess. Keep this up, you're 98% of the way there.

EDIT: I posted this later on as well, but I just noticed part of the problem you're going to have. A big part of determining if the cat is yawning or roaring is what you hear. Our cat yawned, and it makes the same face you'd expect when roaring - eyes shut, mouth open wide, teeth bared... it's just silent.

[VC//]

Its getting better with each update.

Here are some lion images so you know how the nose, eyes, and the head should look.

[-(dp)-]

OK, I don't really like these changes, but here they are. I can't get the eye to look right, so I will try to make it look like it is closed. I think the tongue kind of looks funny, but I wil keep working on it. The nose should still probably be bigger and I will work on that. Any C+C appreciated.

[BlueSky]

This guy's hoping Wildlife Rogaine makes its debut soon...

About the logo, I was amazed at the transition from the first post to the latest effort. You've got talent and you hung in there despite the chuckles, and the changes made have taken this to a viable concept. Good job!

[Fred T. Jane]

OK, I don't really like these changes, but here they are. I can't get the eye to look right, so I will try to make it look like it is closed. I think the tongue kind of looks funny, but I wil keep working on it. The nose should still probably be bigger and I will work on that. Any C+C appreciated.

It's looking great now!

Something to think about though, you need to put an eyebrow above the eye to give some perspective to the face above the nose. It looks a little flat, but that little bit will help a lot.

[patsox]

It still kinda looks like its yawning. MAybe exaggerate the eyebrows??

[mike2sana]

heres how it should look

i dont know how to enlarge it to its original size

[Fred T. Jane]

heres how it should look

i dont know how to enlarge it to its original size

Not that prominent. There needs to be an eyebrow, but I'm stumped how to do it without forcing it. Paging VitaminD.

[leggman01]

pnd - one last round of c&c - you're getting really close, and this is greatly improved - i think you have a good idea what needs to be changed - make those changes and one more....

this is a tough one to execute - i've just figured out why the mane and face seem disconnected...the perspectives are different - your mane was drawn as if you are looking straight at the lion and the face is a 3/4 view - here are some things that might help change this problem

1. lose the ear on the right side completely...you probably wouldn't see it from that view

2. show more mane on the left side and less on the right

the top photo in vcx's last post is a great reference for these changes (and to give you an idea of the shape of the eye) as it is pretty close to the same angle as you're little fella

[VitaminD]

heres how it should look

i dont know how to enlarge it to its original size

Not that prominent. There needs to be an eyebrow, but I'm stumped how to do it without forcing it. Paging VitaminD.

Oh God, please no more pagers. I used to think it'd be cool to finally get one, now I'd pay to have them permanently removed from my life...

But since you paged, here I be.

2sana's got the right idea... kinda sorta. Not with the overly severe black eyebrows, but with the other thing he added in his modification: shadowing. Though he employed shadowing elsewhere, a little shadowing would darken the eye and make it look more menacing (although I like what you've got at this point). Softening the eyebrow and modifying if to fit into a natural shadow pattern would give you what you're looking for.

As I said before, lions don't have true eyebrows any more than dogs do. However, there is a ridge of tissue that overhangs the orbits to help keep the sun out of the lion's eyes. A shadow of dark gray would accentuate the eye and give the upper aspect of the orbit definition without resorting to anthropomorphics like giving the lion Grandma's attempt to pencil back in what she plucked out.

A funny observation I made watching our cat yawn: Without the benefit of sound, and actually hearing the lion roar, it's always going to be tough to distinguish yawning from roaring - eyes closed, mouth wide open, teeth and tongue exposed. You may be looking to do more here than you could - but it's worth a few minutes of tinkering to see if you can achieve what you're looking for.