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Brass

David Ortiz is unhuman!

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Even then, David Ortiz bats for the better average and is on pace to destroy Bernie Williams' HR and RBI totals if he ever gets to play in that many postseason games.

Won't happen cupcake. Sooner or later the Sox are going to have to dump him because that's way too much money for a DH when they can pay for someone with his bat and an actual ability to play defence. Besides, the way it's going, Bernie's going to pad those stats some more whilst Red Sox Nation resumes their autumn ritual of self-loathing...

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You kids can argue all you want...

Postseason runs scored, all time

David Ortiz- 19

Albert Pujols- 28

Bernie Williams- 83

Postseason Home Runs, all time

David Ortiz- 8

Albert Pujols- 10

Bernie Williams- 22

Postseason RBIs, all time

David Ortiz- 32

Albert Pujols- 29

Bernie Williams- 80

World Series Rings, all time

David Ortiz- 1

Albert Pujols- 0

Bernie Williams- 4

Wow. That's like boasting about Brett Farve having better stats than Eli Manning.

I wonder why.

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Wow. That's like boasting about Brett Farve having better stats than Eli Manning.

I wonder why.

He's better? ^_^

Though if you want someone their age, here you go.

Postseason batting average, all time

David Ortiz- .301

Albert Pujols- .336

Carlos Beltran- .435

Postseason on-base percentage, all time

David Ortiz- .383

Albert Pujols- .428

Carlos Beltran- .536

Postseason slugging percentage, all time

David Ortiz- .552

Albert Pujols- .620

Carlos Beltran- 1.022

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Oooh I hope Beltran does that again this year

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Oooh I hope Beltran does that again this year

He was a complete monster in that postseason run for the Astros, and the way he is playing this season (and actually has protection in the lineup this time, rather than the paper tiger that is Lance Berkman), we may be in for the Carlos Beltran Show...on Broadway!

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Beltran's a weak comparison too. He's played in exactly one postseason in his career, and those were the last games leading up to his chance to cash in on a major contract (which he did).

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Albert Pujols holds the cure to AIDS, it's called his bat. Albert Pujols is better than Chuck Norris, Mr. T, David Ortizzzzzz, KITT, and David Hasselhoff combined.

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Beltran's a weak comparison too. He's played in exactly one postseason in his career, and those were the last games leading up to his chance to cash in on a major contract (which he did).

Seriously, how far up your rear did you go to pull that excuse out? Someone points out that they have better stats than Pujols, and you'll use any excuse, from "He's played more games than Albert" to "contract year". You defend him like he's your husband.

I'll bet you $100 that you'll exclaim "Pujols would've won if he hadn't been injured" if someone other than Pujols wins the NL MVP.

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Beltran's a weak comparison too. He's played in exactly one postseason in his career, and those were the last games leading up to his chance to cash in on a major contract (which he did).

Seriously, how far up your rear did you go to pull that excuse out? Someone points out that they have better stats than Pujols, and you'll use any excuse, from "He's played more games than Albert" to "contract year".

During his career Pujols has played in 37 postseason games, with 137 AB, whereas Beltran has 12 postseason games, and 46 AB's, both of which are at, or just shy of, 3/1 ratios.

By your reasoning a player who played in 162 games over the course of a season could have his stats compared to a player who played in only 54. You have to know that you wouldn't be able to straight up compare these two players statistically and get anything worthwhile from it.

Stl Fanatic is right, it's a tremendously weak comparison.

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Beltran's a weak comparison too. He's played in exactly one postseason in his career, and those were the last games leading up to his chance to cash in on a major contract (which he did).

Seriously, how far up your rear did you go to pull that excuse out? Someone points out that they have better stats than Pujols, and you'll use any excuse, from "He's played more games than Albert" to "contract year".

During his career Pujols has played in 37 postseason games, with 137 AB, whereas Beltran has 12 postseason games, and 46 AB's, both of which are at, or just shy of, 3/1 ratios.

By your reasoning a player who played in 162 games over the course of a season could have his stats compared to a player who played in only 54. You have to know that you wouldn't be able to straight up compare these two players statistically and get anything worthwhile from it.

Stl Fanatic is right, it's a tremendously weak comparison.

You missed the point.

STL Fanatic stated that Beltran has put up higher averages than Pujols solely because of the fact that Beltran was playing for a new contract. STL Fanatic can't accept the fact that someone has better postseason numbers without resorting to digging up bullflop excuses. Beltran's goal in the 2004 postseason was the same as Pujols': to win the World Series, and Beltran put up better numbers than Pujols did. No one gives a crap about their contract status when they're playing postseason baseball.

End of story.

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Not end of story, Hedley, because you're wrong.

I was defending Ortiz every bit as much as I was defending Pujols when I said the Beltran comparison was weak. It's completely unreasonable to call a guy who has participated in 12 playoff games a better playoff performer than a couple guys who have consistantly put up big time numbers. The contract note was meant to be just a side note (but Beltran did pretty much play the best baseball of his career with that contract on the line).

While all that, save the AIDS cure, is true joel, that was an unnecessary sarcastic response. What I said about the comparison being weak was no different than what ITE said about the Bernie comparsion being weak.

I'm open to someone showing me a guy who's better than Albert and Ortiz in the playoffs as I never made any claim about Albert being the best playoff performer. All I said was you can't use Beltran as a fair comparison. It's too small a sample size.

I'll have to wait and see about the MVP. Right now Albert deserves it even with his injury, but that could change. He's in a mini-slump right now, and there's enough guys on his tail that he might fall behind. There's a pretty decent chance Albert would have put up some really monster numbers, maybe even record numbers had he not been set back with injuries, but saying Albert would have won the MVP had he not been hurt would be pointless. Injuries are part of the game, and most of the time to put up numbers deserving of the MVP award, a player has to stay healthy.

** I apologize to anyone who read the above post. It has no merit because the Cardinals are my favorite team. **

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Even then, David Ortiz bats for the better average and is on pace to destroy Bernie Williams' HR and RBI totals if he ever gets to play in that many postseason games.

Won't happen cupcake. Sooner or later the Sox are going to have to dump him because that's way too much money for a DH when they can pay for someone with his bat and an actual ability to play defence. Besides, the way it's going, Bernie's going to pad those stats some more whilst Red Sox Nation resumes their autumn ritual of self-loathing...

It's cute that you think the team with the second largest payroll acts with a small market mentality. Just because we don't mortgage our future for the present doesn't mean we're not willing to spend money. We were also in line to pick up Clemens -- not exactly the smartest from the financial sense -- via free agency and at the trade deadline.

Besides, when exactly would Bernie play should the Yankees make the postseason? Our pitching staff will get healthy -- yours, while already healthy as they're going to get, will continue to suck.

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While all that, save the AIDS cure, is true joel, that was an unnecessary sarcastic response. What I said about the comparison being weak was no different than what ITE said about the Bernie comparsion being weak.

I agree that the Beltran comparison was weak because never in his life could Beltran have a stretch like that again in the playoffs. The Bernie Williams comparison was weak because he came with stats that take time to accumulate. Of course Bernie's going to have more RBI's or HR's when he's played in over three times as many games.

We're not talking better stats, anyway. We're talking about who, when the game is on the line late, is the best player in the league -- who, with one out and down by one with a runner on, is most likely to come through. Without a doubt, it's David Ortiz or Albert Pujols. Ortiz, though, has the more impressive track record in that spot. But Bernie isn't even in the conversation.

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While all that, save the AIDS cure, is true joel, that was an unnecessary sarcastic response. What I said about the comparison being weak was no different than what ITE said about the Bernie comparsion being weak.

unnecessary? perhaps.

funny? i'd like to think so, since i was laughing as i typed it.

this thread is stupid, Boston fans are gonna say Papi's dung can cure cancer. Cards fans are gonna say Albert's sweat holds the secrets to world peace. that's the way it goes.

i happen to believe pujols will go down as the best player of all time.....but i know that is my opinion. i'm not gonna waste my time defending someone i don't personally know.

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Sorry Joel. I got tired of having my opinion dismissed just because I was a Cards fan. Your pretty much right on your assessment of who's gonna pick who I think.

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this thread is stupid, Boston fans are gonna say Papi's dung can cure cancer. Cards fans are gonna say Albert's sweat holds the secrets to world peace. that's the way it goes.

As Jerry Seinfeld once said... sports is really just cheering for laundry.

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Sorry Joel. I got tired of having my opinion dismissed just because I was a Cards fan. Your pretty much right on your assessment of who's gonna pick who I think.

No one's dismissing it. You are absolutely right about Beltran. He has been in the playoffs once, so you can't compare him with Pujols and Ortiz. And you can't compare those two to Bernie Williams.

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Carmona is a joke. With two outs in the 9th, he hits the next two batters only to walk Youkilis. Bases loaded, he sees Big Papi on deck, and not wanting to give another one up to Ortiz, he just lets Loretta play hero. Great way to avoid Ortiz... ^_^

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It's cute that you think the team with the second largest payroll acts with a small market mentality.  Just because we don't mortgage our future for the present doesn't mean we're not willing to spend money.  We were also in line to pick up Clemens -- not exactly the smartest from the financial sense -- via free agency and at the trade deadline.

Besides, when exactly would Bernie play should the Yankees make the postseason?  Our pitching staff will get healthy -- yours, while already healthy as they're going to get, will continue to suck.

We? What's this "we" nonsense? You have a stake in the ownership of the Boston Red Sox franchise? Anyway, I know you're just another semi-lucid mouthpiece for the Hive Mind that is Red Sox Nation and all, but just because someone shows statistics that a Yankee is better than a Red Sox player, doesn't make them a Yankees fan.

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It's cute that you think the team with the second largest payroll acts with a small market mentality.  Just because we don't mortgage our future for the present doesn't mean we're not willing to spend money.  We were also in line to pick up Clemens -- not exactly the smartest from the financial sense -- via free agency and at the trade deadline.

Besides, when exactly would Bernie play should the Yankees make the postseason?  Our pitching staff will get healthy -- yours, while already healthy as they're going to get, will continue to suck.

We? What's this "we" nonsense? You have a stake in the ownership of the Boston Red Sox franchise? Anyway, I know you're just another semi-lucid mouthpiece for the Hive Mind that is Red Sox Nation and all, but just because someone shows statistics that a Yankee is better than a Red Sox player, doesn't make them a Yankees fan.

Way to back out of the argument. You realized you're an idiot and you sidestepped. Kudos on that one. Found this latest stat in Bill Simmons' latest column on Page 2. Is there ANY player in the league that can even touch this stat? Bernie? Albert?

Since the start of 2005, Ortiz has come to the plate 13 times with a chance for a game-ending plate appearance. He's made an out only once -- and he went on to win that game in the 12th inning. That number jumps if you include the 2004 postseason. He's had the most walkoff hits in any Four year span (and he's pretty much done it in a two year span)

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