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BringBackTheVet

If Ryan Howard hits 62

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Ryan Howard hit his 53rd today. He is currently on pace for 62. It is not unreasonable to think that he could hit a few more than 62, considering how streaky he can be.

Anyway, considering that the only people ever to have eclipsed 61 (Sosa, McGwire, and Bonds) all did it under "questionable" circumstances, if Howard hits 62, will you / the media treat him as the true or "natural" leader? Should he be listed as #1?

***Please note - I don't want this thread to turn into "so-and-so was never found guilty" or "Sosa didn't cheat" etc. I'm not saying that any of those people were innocent or guilty, just that there is a huge cloud of suspision, which nobody can argue.***

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I think so, Howard is a big "meat 'n potatoes" kinda guy. He's always been big, and I would doubt if he ever used.

Edited by miltonANDlumbergh

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I think it is the record.

They will always be an asterisk in my mind, until we can clear them all for sure. Unless we never find out the truth.

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If he hits 62, then there will be that possible cloud of suspicion hanging over Howard.

He might be naturally that strong, but once he reaches that point, there will be people crawling out of the woodwork who will accuse the man of taking steroids. I won't be one of them... Hell, he has basically lead the Phillies back in the Wild Card picture.

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If he hits 62, then there will be that possible cloud of suspicion hanging over Howard.

He might be naturally that strong, but once he reaches that point, there will be people crawling out of the woodwork who will accuse the man of taking steroids. I won't be one of them... Hell, he has basically lead the Phillies back in the Wild Card picture.

I don't think people will. Unlike big mac and sosa, Howard came in big. McGuire and Sosa were toothpicks, as was Barry. There are some guys that are born big, like Howard and Harmon Killebrew, Babe Ruth, Frank Thomas, who know how to just hit naturally. Also Howard is a liked guy in baseball, and I really believe people knew he could do this. Everyone was shocked when McGuire hit 70 and Sosa hit 66, but with Howard, you could just see he had the ability and talent to do so.

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I'm not asking at all if anyone thinks Howard did steroids. He was a masher in MiLB, which actually had tests. I don't think that there is even a little bit of a question as to where his strength comes from. I'm just asking if he will be recognized as the "true" champion.

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I'm just asking if he will be recognized as the "true" champion.

No because there is no proof that Bonds was juiced when he hit 73 same goes for Sosa and McGwire. Until there is a "smoking gun" and MLB takes away the record Howard will be nothing more than 12 short of the record if he hits 62. It's a shame that every record from now on will always be "under question." Thanks Bonds, Sosa, McGwire and all the rest for ruining the game for everyone including the guys like Ryan Howard who are doing it right (we hope anyway.)

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Dead thank you I was just about to say that.

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28 HR @ Home.

25 HR on the road.

CBP is def. a hitter's park, but he's not hitting fly-balls that would be outs in other stadiums - he's hitting upper-deck shots.

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I just don't think it's fair for Howard to be considered "the natural leader" when there's really not even solid evidence against McGwire or Sosa (where as there is against Bonds, though obviously he's been investigated more).

If he hit 62, he'll be the guy that hit 62 that we're pretty doggone sure did it legally, but unless more comes out against Sosa or McGwire, then people need to stop acting like it's fact that they didn't do it legally. (That's a debate for another time, though.)

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If Howard hits 62, MLB won't do a thing about it. Bonds' 73 is the record.

But you know darn well that every columnist and every talking head on TV and radio will have a field day with it. As well they should.

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Sorry but McGwire was no toothpick when he came up. He hit 49 bombs as a rookie. Everyone forgets that. The average size of a major league player inceased the same as mcgwire did over his career. Just look at baseball cards from the 80s through the 90s. Look at football cards. basketball cards. as weight training and fitness has gotten better, players in all sports have become bigger and more defined within hte last 20 years. if you want to say its steroids thats fine, and I'm not saying some didn't. But the average athlete has gotten bigger naturally and much younger (just look at High school and college football players. I think guys riding the pine at some small schools could have started at major programs 20 years ago). Its evolution of sport.

Anyway...sorry I know we didn't want that but I typed it and don't want to delete it...

It would be an incredible accomplishment that I wouldn't downplay. But until you prove that McGwire, sosa or Bonds actually took anything beyond supliments, they are the tops. This country was not built on speculation, it was built on innocent until proven guilty. That's what they are until then.

The biggest thing to me is if he hits 60+ he'll joint Ruth, Marris, McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds as the only players ever to hit 60 in one season. No matter what substances may have been in their bodies, thats an impressive list to be a part of.

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I think it is the record.

They will always be an asterisk in my mind, until we can clear them all for sure. Unless we never find out the truth.

Guilty until proven innocent? I'm sure as hell glad you aren't a judge.

Yes, 62 will be the record......the Phillies record. Until Bonds, McGwire, and Sosa are proven guilty of being juiced up during these career seasons, their records stand unblemished.

Personally, I think homerun numbers are up because of weaker overall pitching, smaller ballparks, free-swinging hitters who aren't afraid/ashamed of swinging and missing & striking out no matter what the count is, and the amount & size of protective batting protection today's batters wear, greatly reducing the fear of inside pitching.

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I think it is the record.

They will always be an asterisk in my mind, until we can clear them all for sure. Unless we never find out the truth.

Guilty until proven innocent? I'm sure as hell glad you aren't a judge.

Yes, 62 will be the record......the Phillies record. Until Bonds, McGwire, and Sosa are proven guilty of being juiced up during these career seasons, their records stand unblemished.

Personally, I think homerun numbers are up because of weaker overall pitching, smaller ballparks, free-swinging hitters who aren't afraid/ashamed of swinging and missing & striking out no matter what the count is, and the amount & size of protective batting protection today's batters wear, greatly reducing the fear of inside pitching.

I tend to agree with you Hedley. Steroids is just one of many reasons.

Oh, don't forgot the small strike zone. Or, I've heard it's smaller than it used to be. I'm not old enough to remember.

I believe Bonds was juiced only because I've seen so much evidence against him. I don't think I can rightly state that as fact though until someone with more information and authority than me does.

Because the evidence against McGwire (and Sosa) is so, so, so little in comparison of Bonds, I think it's ridiculous to even try and state it as fact that he and some others were juiced.

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Yes, 62 will be the record......the Phillies record.

Agreed. The Phillies should do something for him, but not MLB.

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Well at least the AL record has yet to be tainted ^_^

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Well at least the AL record has yet to be tainted ^_^

At least not since 1961, or so Ford Frick would tell you...

If Howard hits 62, he should be a lock for the MVP. Say what you want about Pujols and Beltran, but the man has had the best season for a club that six weeks ago was completely buried under about six or seven teams.

If he hits 62, I think he'll be embraced more than Bonds because of his story. He's a fresh-faced kid who was finally given the chance to show what he could do while playing every day and rejuvenated a franchise that needed it.

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Yeah, if Ed Wade was still GM, Howard would either have been sent back to AAA, or would have been traded in the offseason for a couple of no-name middle relievers.

Had Thome never have gotten hurt, Howard would still probably have zero major league experience, even though he has nearly every franchise minor-league HR record.

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ok if Howard hits only 62 this year he probably would not be considered the home run champ because:

The babe hit 60 home runs in 154 games. Maris hit 61 in 162 games.

In theory the babe would've hit more if the played 162 games.

Going with that ruth hit 0.3896 homers every game(60/154)

So in 162 games he was on pace to hit 63.1168 home runs(0.3896x162)

So even rounded down howard would be 1 short of the true non steroids home run single season record.

any questions?

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