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Bill Belichick


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I think you're putting too much stock into the amount of respect a leader (of a team, business or anything else) generates from his subordinates by choosing to dress in a certain manner. I know that some people out there see a guy in a nice suit and a tie and automatically treat him differently, but many people don't. Usually the ones who kiss up to and/or fear the guy in the BOSS suit are the ones lacking creativity and depth anyway.

That's why you often see these innovative, "outside-the-box" managers going to work in pretty casual attire and having no trouble being treated with the respect they deserve. They don't meticulously follow the established rules when it comes to running their business, so why should they follow the rules about what kind of uniform someone in their position needs to wear? For one thing, people are happier and more comfortable when they can dress how they'd like, and on top of that, many people find that a boss is more approachable when he doesn't look like, well, a boss.

So, to bring this back to Belichick, it seems to me that he resorts to other measures than his choice of clothing to gain the respect of his players, and it seems to work quite well. They're grown men, most of them aren't morons, and if their coach was on the sidelines in a suit and a fedora, it would probably make them respect him less and feel less comfortable.

Should Belichick care about how his bumwear may make the league look bad? Nope. He's not out there to be some football ambassador to the world or do anything other than win games and collect his checks.

Your points are well made, however I disagree with you.

Some people are expected to maintain a particular standard of dress.

It's not about respect earned for your ability to do a job, but rather the respect one gives to their organisation by the way they present themselves.

That's why there is a dress code in the first place.

You don't see cops deciding one day to turn up in a tracksuit. Or soldiers.

You don't even see McDonalds employees turning up in cut-off jeans and tank tops.

There are expectations of a job that are over and above the basic day to day operations of it.

In the case of an NFL Head Coach, that means a dress code.

Not as regimented as the uniforms in my examples, there's some flexibility to what they can wear.

Yes, the dress code does seem to allow for what BTG (Belichick The Genius) wore, and not a suit and tie(!), but that doesn't mean it looked good. Or that he should be allowed to represent the New England Patriots like that again. If I was Robert Kraft, I'd be congratulatiing him on the superb win, but suggesting Coach Belichick finds something a little more appropriate to his position for the Colts.

Oh, and I've got a site.

Footy Jumpers Dot Com

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So I suppose Papa Bear Halas is a distant second to the guy who went 36-44 with Cleveland... :rolleyes:

Let's keep this in perspective folks. He's had a nice run the last five years in New England with Brady at QB. Until he does it for 40 years like Halas, or say, Landry - he's simply above average...

Moose

Think about this - Belichick has won 3 titles in 5 years in the 32-team salary cap era of parity.

Guys like Lombardi, Landry, Noll, Halas - great coaches, but they had the benefit of teams full of future HOFer's.

Belichick probably has only one - Tom Brady - and yet as this year has proven his teams continue to dominate no matter who he puts in there.

I don't think his lack of success in Cleveland years ago matters - there's no shame in failing at first and then getting better with experience.

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So I suppose Papa Bear Halas is a distant second to the guy who went 36-44 with Cleveland... :rolleyes:

Let's keep this in perspective folks. He's had a nice run the last five years in New England with Brady at QB. Until he does it for 40 years like Halas, or say, Landry - he's simply above average...

Moose

Think about this - Belichick has won 3 titles in 5 years in the 32-team salary cap era of parity.

Guys like Lombardi, Landry, Noll, Halas - great coaches, but they had the benefit of teams full of future HOFer's.

Belichick probably has only one - Tom Brady - and yet as this year has proven his teams continue to dominate no matter who he puts in there.

I don't think his lack of success in Cleveland years ago matters - there's no shame in failing at first and then getting better with experience.

I don't care!

Let's say, for the benefit of the arguement, that he wins another Super Bowl this year. That's 4 in a 12 year career, with an overall record of (I'm just using games up to this point) 95-78, and 4 losing seasons to go along with those 4 Super Bowls.

Tell me how, even with the pairity of today, that compares with 40 seasons, an overall coaching record of 315-148 and 6 NFL titles (Halas)? Or 38 seasons with a record of 250-162, 2 Super Bowls, plus 5 NFC Titles (Landry). Or, if you're into short careers, how about 12 years (with no losing years), an overall coaching record of 105-35-6, 5 NFL titles and 2 Super Bowls, plus, they named the damn Super Bowl trophy after him?

Yeah, like I said, Belichick will always be the guy who went 36-44 with Cleveland...

Moose

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So I suppose Papa Bear Halas is a distant second to the guy who went 36-44 with Cleveland... :rolleyes:

Let's keep this in perspective folks. He's had a nice run the last five years in New England with Brady at QB. Until he does it for 40 years like Halas, or say, Landry - he's simply above average...

Moose

Think about this - Belichick has won 3 titles in 5 years in the 32-team salary cap era of parity.

Guys like Lombardi, Landry, Noll, Halas - great coaches, but they had the benefit of teams full of future HOFer's.

Belichick probably has only one - Tom Brady - and yet as this year has proven his teams continue to dominate no matter who he puts in there.

I don't think his lack of success in Cleveland years ago matters - there's no shame in failing at first and then getting better with experience.

I don't care!

Let's say, for the benefit of the arguement, that he wins another Super Bowl this year. That's 4 in a 12 year career, with an overall record of (I'm just using games up to this point) 95-78, and 4 losing seasons to go along with those 4 Super Bowls.

Tell me how, even with the pairity of today, that compares with 40 seasons, an overall coaching record of 315-148 and 6 NFL titles (Halas)? Or 38 seasons with a record of 250-162, 2 Super Bowls, plus 5 NFC Titles (Landry). Or, if you're into short careers, how about 12 years (with no losing years), an overall coaching record of 105-35-6, 5 NFL titles and 2 Super Bowls, plus, they named the damn Super Bowl trophy after him?

Yeah, like I said, Belichick will always be the guy who went 36-44 with Cleveland...

Moose

Admittedly, arguing about the merits of athletes, teams, and coaches across eras is difficult. My argument for Belichick being the best ever is based on his success today as there are more teams in the league and the talent is more equally distributed. Guys like Lombardi and Landry simply had better players than most everybody else and were able to coach in a much less competitive league, while Belichick wins big with guys you've never heard of, many of whom were discarded from other teams. Your insistance that Belichick's early record is that important is unfair and many greats struggled in their early years only to improve with time (check out John Elway's rookie year, for example).

Anyway, back to the subject of BB's sideline wear - let's not forget that he's coaching a football game, not going to the prom. The guy is obviously more comfortable in a sweatshirt so let him wear one.

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So I suppose Papa Bear Halas is a distant second to the guy who went 36-44 with Cleveland... :rolleyes:

Let's keep this in perspective folks. He's had a nice run the last five years in New England with Brady at QB. Until he does it for 40 years like Halas, or say, Landry - he's simply above average...

Moose

Belichick probably has only one - Tom Brady - and yet as this year has proven his teams continue to dominate no matter who he puts in there.

Surely you haven't forgotten (fights urge to retch) Adam Vinatieri?

Rodney Harrison's a thug, but he's probably going to the Hall of Fame as well. McGinest and Bruschi are probables for the Hall as well.

Let's not forget, the only reason one of those rings are on his finger is because some NFL refs don't know what a fumble is if it bit them in the a$$.

The hallmark of a good coach is being able to win whenever wherever. So no mulligan on Cleveland for him (much as NESPN would love to.)

Also, its easy to dominate when you're in the AFC East (aka the weakest division in the NFL). Lessee-2 wins against Buffalo, 1 against the Jets, 1 against Cincinnati, 1 against Miami, and 1 against Minnesota. 1 loss at home against Denver. Not exactly the most demanding of schedules thus far.

On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said:
You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now.
On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said:
Today, we are all otaku.

"The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert

POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010

The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy)

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Admittedly, arguing about the merits of athletes, teams, and coaches across eras is difficult. My argument for Belichick being the best ever is based on his success today as there are more teams in the league and the talent is more equally distributed. Guys like Lombardi and Landry simply had better players than most everybody else and were able to coach in a much less competitive league, while Belichick wins big with guys you've never heard of, many of whom were discarded from other teams. Your insistance that Belichick's early record is that important is unfair and many greats struggled in their early years only to improve with time (check out John Elway's rookie year, for example).

Anyway, back to the subject of BB's sideline wear - let's not forget that he's coaching a football game, not going to the prom. The guy is obviously more comfortable in a sweatshirt so let him wear one.

<Obvious Question> How many Packers and Cowboys from Lombardi's and Landry's days can you name? </Obvious Question>

[Croatia National Team Manager Slavan] Bilic then went on to explain how Croatia's success can partially be put down to his progressive man-management techniques. "Sometimes I lie in the bed with my players. I go to the room of Vedran Corluka and Luka Modric when I see they have a problem and I lie in bed with them and we talk for 10 minutes." Maybe Capello could try getting through to his players this way too? Although how far he'd get with Joe Cole jumping up and down on the mattress and Rooney demanding to be read his favourite page from The Very Hungry Caterpillar is open to question. --The Guardian's Fiver, 08 September 2008

Attention: In order to obtain maximum enjoyment from your stay at the CCSLC, the reader is advised that the above post may contain large amounts of sarcasm, dry humour, or statements which should not be taken in any true sort of seriousness. As a result, the above poster absolves himself of any and all blame in the event that a forum user responds to the aforementioned post without taking the previous notice into account. Thank you for your cooperation, and enjoy your stay at the CCSLC.

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So I suppose Papa Bear Halas is a distant second to the guy who went 36-44 with Cleveland... :rolleyes:

Let's keep this in perspective folks. He's had a nice run the last five years in New England with Brady at QB. Until he does it for 40 years like Halas, or say, Landry - he's simply above average...

Moose

Think about this - Belichick has won 3 titles in 5 years in the 32-team salary cap era of parity.

Guys like Lombardi, Landry, Noll, Halas - great coaches, but they had the benefit of teams full of future HOFer's.

Belichick probably has only one - Tom Brady - and yet as this year has proven his teams continue to dominate no matter who he puts in there.

I don't think his lack of success in Cleveland years ago matters - there's no shame in failing at first and then getting better with experience.

I don't care!

Let's say, for the benefit of the arguement, that he wins another Super Bowl this year. That's 4 in a 12 year career, with an overall record of (I'm just using games up to this point) 95-78, and 4 losing seasons to go along with those 4 Super Bowls.

Tell me how, even with the pairity of today, that compares with 40 seasons, an overall coaching record of 315-148 and 6 NFL titles (Halas)? Or 38 seasons with a record of 250-162, 2 Super Bowls, plus 5 NFC Titles (Landry). Or, if you're into short careers, how about 12 years (with no losing years), an overall coaching record of 105-35-6, 5 NFL titles and 2 Super Bowls, plus, they named the damn Super Bowl trophy after him?

Yeah, like I said, Belichick will always be the guy who went 36-44 with Cleveland...

Moose

Admittedly, arguing about the merits of athletes, teams, and coaches across eras is difficult. My argument for Belichick being the best ever is based on his success today as there are more teams in the league and the talent is more equally distributed. Guys like Lombardi and Landry simply had better players than most everybody else and were able to coach in a much less competitive league, while Belichick wins big with guys you've never heard of, many of whom were discarded from other teams. Your insistance that Belichick's early record is that important is unfair and many greats struggled in their early years only to improve with time (check out John Elway's rookie year, for example).

Talent is more equally distributed?! I have news for you sweetheart, back when those guys were coaching, because there were fewer teams, each individual team was more talented. If you're using the "talent" argument, expansion and the resulting dilution in talent has made it easier to win a title, not harder. I'm sure some of those "weaker" teams back then would have a very respectable showing against the Patriots.

Discards? Yup Corey Dillon was a real unknown discard there...

Early record unfair?! The man went 36-44 with one playoff spot and win over 5 years (and almost a 3rd of those wins came in one year). How many mulligans do you get?

On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said:
You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now.
On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said:
Today, we are all otaku.

"The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert

POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010

The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy)

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This year the AFC East is pretty week, but in the Pats recent championship years the AFC East was a pretty tough division. It wasn't a cake walk.

Also, don't bring out that old tuck rule stuff. It may have been a stupid rule, but it was in the books. The refs interpreted it correctly. Also, that rule did not solely win the game. The Patriots still needed to kick a long field goal in a blizzard and than win it in OT. Any time the Raiders could have stopped them. New England earned all three titles.

And finally I would love BB to wear a suit but its cold out there. I know I would be much more comfortable in a sweater. I am definitely a homer, but I think it looks cool. Its also a lot better looking than some of the stupid looking reebok apparel other coaches wear.

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Also, don't bring out that old tuck rule stuff. It may have been a stupid rule, but it was in the books. The refs interpreted it correctly. Also, that rule did not solely win the game. The Patriots still needed to kick a long field goal in a blizzard and than win it in OT. Any time the Raiders could have stopped them. New England earned all three titles.

Oh Thank God. Someone with some common sense. You bitter Rams fans are the worst. You don't accidentally win the Super Bowl.

On Belichick's coaching:

It is impossible to debate who the greatest of all time. However I do think sometimes we fantasize about the great coaches of the past. It's easy to get caught up in the nostalgia/history of their legend (Halas/Lombardi). Fact remains, they coached in a different era. To debate how well they would have done now and how well modern coaches would have done then is going to lead you down the same endless road. With that said, I do beleive Belichick is the greatest coach of the free agency era. It's impossible to tell how Lombardi/Halas would have done with modern player turnover. Not to mention, he created probably the best gameplan in Super Bowl history to beat a far superior rams team. The fact remains that in the free agency era Belichick has managed to win 3 Super Bowls in 5 years and continually field a very competative team. One other person has come close (Mike Shanahan) and I would certainly say he's a very close second to Belichick.

On Belichick's attire:

I'm sure most Pats fans agree with me on this one, but Belichick's quirks (his attire being one of them) as crazy or sometimes egotistical as they may be, are one if his endearing qualities. I sort of enjoy seing him dress like a homeless guy because Belichick is doing what Belichick does.

With that said. I would very much be in favor of the NFL implementing coaching dress guidlines.

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mmkay...

this thread got off topic quickly...

the argument here, is that he looks retarded in that sweatshirt, and that it's ridiculous that nolan isn't allowed to wear a suit if he wants to, but belichick is allowed to wear self-tailored/butchered reebok hoodies.

i agree with this. it's ridiculous. it looks unprofessional, and if they allow this, they should allow coaches to actually dress nicely... reebok be damned.

is he the best coach ever? who cares? that's not what this thread is about.

does his style of dress effect his coaching? who cares? that's not what this thread is about.

does winning super bowls give you a right to look like a hobo? that may actually be an acceptable topic of discussion for this thread, but it's still pointless, because it's a dead end conversation.

basically, the majority of the posts in this thread make my head hurt. to those who think that talking about his attire is pointless as long as he wins, unregister from the forums. you don't understand the purpose of them... and if it's so pathetic to talk about coaching attire, how pathetic is it to argue about talking about coaching attire?

-bangs head on table-

long story short, we need more professionals like tice and nolan, and we need to allow those who wish to look professional to do so.

i don't look at jeff fisher, and think "wow. glad i saw that hoodie, i'll plop down $90 for one, so i can be like him"... i'm not going to buy a hoodie that costs more than $25, regardless. lol... it's a hoodie. so i don't even understand their whole marketing campaign.

would you want to spend that amount of money, to dress like a man that dresses like a hobo?

i guess if he wins a couple more superbowls, we'd all be fools to refrain from plopping that cash down for a cut-off hoodie?

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Also, don't bring out that old tuck rule stuff. It may have been a stupid rule, but it was in the books. The refs interpreted it correctly. Also, that rule did not solely win the game. The Patriots still needed to kick a long field goal in a blizzard and than win it in OT. Any time the Raiders could have stopped them. New England earned all three titles.

It is impossible to debate who the greatest of all time. However I do think sometimes we fantasize about the great coaches of the past. It's easy to get caught up in the nostalgia/history of their legend (Halas/Lombardi). Fact remains, they coached in a different era. To debate how well they would have done now and how well modern coaches would have done then is going to lead you down the same endless road. With that said, I do beleive Belichick is the greatest coach of the free agency era. It's impossible to tell how Lombardi/Halas would have done with modern player turnover. Not to mention, he created probably the best gameplan in Super Bowl history to beat a far superior rams team. The fact remains that in the free agency era Belichick has managed to win 3 Super Bowls in 5 years and continually field a very competative team. One other person has come close (Mike Shanahan) and I would certainly say he's a very close second to Belichick.

It's easy to win games when your DBs are allowed to do everything short of assault and battery in regards to covering opposing recievers. <_<

But I will admit, when it comes to the Patriots, I cannot think in pure unemotional terms about them; that ability vanished for me around the 100th time the East Coast media trumpeted the cult of the Patriots in the 2-3 weeks following Super Bowl XXXVI.

I will give you that he's one of the better coaches of the last 10-15 years; lets just lay off on the "greatest of all time" hyperbole.

On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said:
You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now.
On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said:
Today, we are all otaku.

"The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert

POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010

The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy)

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mmkay...

this thread got off topic quickly...

the argument here, is that he looks retarded in that sweatshirt, and that it's ridiculous that nolan isn't allowed to wear a suit if he wants to, but belichick is allowed to wear self-tailored/butchered reebok hoodies.

i agree with this. it's ridiculous. it looks unprofessional, and if they allow this, they should allow coaches to actually dress nicely... reebok be damned.

is he the best coach ever? who cares? that's not what this thread is about.

does his style of dress effect his coaching? who cares? that's not what this thread is about.

does winning super bowls give you a right to look like a hobo? that may actually be an acceptable topic of discussion for this thread, but it's still pointless, because it's a dead end conversation.

basically, the majority of the posts in this thread make my head hurt. to those who think that talking about his attire is pointless as long as he wins, unregister from the forums. you don't understand the purpose of them... and if it's so pathetic to talk about coaching attire, how pathetic is it to argue about talking about coaching attire?

-bangs head on table-

long story short, we need more professionals like tice and nolan, and we need to allow those who wish to look professional to do so.

i don't look at jeff fisher, and think "wow. glad i saw that hoodie, i'll plop down $90 for one, so i can be like him"... i'm not going to buy a hoodie that costs more than $25, regardless. lol... it's a hoodie. so i don't even understand their whole marketing campaign.

would you want to spend that amount of money, to dress like a man that dresses like a hobo?

i guess if he wins a couple more superbowls, we'd all be fools to refrain from plopping that cash down for a cut-off hoodie?

You do bring up some valid points (and in the interest of full disclosure, I'll note that I do have the Belichick hoodie (Bears version), although I didn't pay $90 for it - I got it at the end of last season (when the cost was only $65), and they marked them 50% off, so I only payed $32.50 (plus no tax on clothes in Minnesota))...

My biggest problem with the way Belichick looks isn't that he's wearing a hoodie, it's that he's decided to cut off the sleves and hood. If it was simply a hoodie, I'd have no problem with the way he looks (as I've noted, I've got one of those hoodies myself, and it's one of the nicest sweatshirts I've ever owned). I think the NFL needs to step in and say that it's okay for Belichick to wear the hoodie, but not for him to modify it (i.e. cut off the sleves and hood) in any way. That would seem to fit in with the rest of the NFL's stance on uniforms for players...

Moose

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So....let me get this straight.

You're bagging on people for bringing up the Super Bowl angle, yet you decide to go the "equate pro sports with real life" route? That is comical.

(Oh, and for the record, I've worked for a company where the President pulled in NFL HC dollars (roughly $3mil), and wore dirty jeans and old ripped t-shirts to the office. Guy was brilliant, too.)

It's not comical, it's completely apt and logical.

Fred- and everybody else who thinks you can somehow equate actions of NFL players and coaches with people in "normal" jobs- you're way off the mark. Pro sports leagues operate by completely different standards of conduct, simply because they represent the absolute elite in talent. There are fewer than 5 human beings on this planet right now that can do the things Terrell Owens can do on a football field, which is why he can act like a complete jackass and still get a $25 million contract.

If you think that pro sports equate with real life in any way, you would have to believe that a worker in a "real-life" job would not get fired for:

1) Carrying a gun into his workplace

2) Killing someone in a DUI, then repeatedly being caught in subsequent DUIs

3) Carrying drugs through airport security

4) Choking his boss TWICE

5) Attempting to punch clients

6) Questioning the sexuality of his co-workers

7) Spending 4 months in jail on cocaine trafficking charges

8) Appearing in a video telling kids to stop snitching on gang members

9) Taking a punch at his boss

All the professional athletes involved with these incidents returned to play in their respective leagues. The fourth scenario is the only one that even involved the athlete's team cutting him. And we haven't even mentioned the Najeh Davenport incident yet.

oh ,my god ,i strong recommend you to have a visit on the website ,or if i'm the president ,i would have an barceque with the anthor of the articel .
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This thread is one or two posts from becoming the Mclaughlin Group...

NEXT TOPIC!

Should John Kerry apologize for his remarks about the troops or fight Mike Tyson?

There's already a thread for that.. And he has apologized, by the way.

1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said:

and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags

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This thread is one or two posts from becoming the Mclaughlin Group...

NEXT TOPIC!

Should John Kerry apologize for his remarks about the troops or fight Mike Tyson?

I say fight Tyson. He could probably win too.

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Fred- and everybody else who thinks you can somehow equate actions of NFL players and coaches with people in "normal" jobs- you're way off the mark.

Considering your previous statements stating your opinion of Gregg Easterbrook's intelligence, your opinion is rendered invalid in this ZIP Code.

[Croatia National Team Manager Slavan] Bilic then went on to explain how Croatia's success can partially be put down to his progressive man-management techniques. "Sometimes I lie in the bed with my players. I go to the room of Vedran Corluka and Luka Modric when I see they have a problem and I lie in bed with them and we talk for 10 minutes." Maybe Capello could try getting through to his players this way too? Although how far he'd get with Joe Cole jumping up and down on the mattress and Rooney demanding to be read his favourite page from The Very Hungry Caterpillar is open to question. --The Guardian's Fiver, 08 September 2008

Attention: In order to obtain maximum enjoyment from your stay at the CCSLC, the reader is advised that the above post may contain large amounts of sarcasm, dry humour, or statements which should not be taken in any true sort of seriousness. As a result, the above poster absolves himself of any and all blame in the event that a forum user responds to the aforementioned post without taking the previous notice into account. Thank you for your cooperation, and enjoy your stay at the CCSLC.

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