Best and Worst sports cities..........

[dfwabel]

"Winters in BUF" and "Bucfan" have it orrect together. This is teh basic sports talk radio topic used to get callas when the host is either: not very good in general, slept through a press conference if they are in even a mid-major city, or just plain have a Communications degree and suck but need content for three hours. This topic is entire subjective so placing iton a forum will make others made, but you won't have to se them face-to-face to back up your comments better. Therefore I will leave everyone with the folowing:

1-Boston apologists: Remember Victor Kiam nearly moved the Patriots to Hartford. I realize that the games were still sold out, but, if the owner is still worried about moving for wahtever reasons, how can you be considered the best.

2-Tampa: The Bucs were nearly in Orlando under Culverhouse before he passed. That threat was real and the fact hat Tampa got the AL is one reason why the Rays have no attendance. Tampa Bay had more NL teams there over spring training, plus it relationship with the Reds. As for teh Lightning, there was a prior arena initiative which went wrong. If you ever hear the name Mark Ganis, is failed in Tampa and other cities, but is now considered a "sports analyst".

3-Retirement Cities: PHX, TPA, MIA, Charlotte, Raliegh, and even Colombus: It is all about economy. Some of these cities do not have union shop, plus many are transplants who only like to see their former teams. Plus in most southern states, wages are lower, so when you add disposable income, ther are less individuals with the money for season tickets. Look at the "new" New Orleans as an example. OKC will have the same issue with an 19,000 seat Ford Center. The lack of the union wage will hurt many southern states.

4-Oakland:It is just an area for a stadium/arena since most upper income cities have NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard). Facilities make property values go down largely. This city is just a BART stop for San fran and a light rail commute for San Jose. Education, streets, and emergency services are more important than sports facilities. When the Raiders moved back the PSL were way too high. Poor planing by owners is not a reason to rip their populace. Who wants to sit on "Mt. Davis" and the Oracle Arena still sucks after a renovation less than 8 years ago.

ESPNews is 10 years old...wow!

[IronChefShark]

This city (being Oakland) is just a BART stop for San fran and a light rail commute for San Jose.

actually, the VTA light rail only services Santa Clara County, not Alameda County. It only goes as far north as Mountain View on the peninsula and Milpitas in the east bay. There is no light rail connecting Oakland and San Jose

[Guest]

Best sports town is Chicago. We are almost too ravid for our own good. I remember distinctly the Tribune saying to stop supporting the bulls when they sucked because they had a full house for a Bulls Warriors game. I am not a Bears fan, but they are easily the most knowlageable in football.

The Bears have great fans...except the ones who get past the Boers & Bernstein call screeners.

[Coast2CoastAM2006]

The best is probably are boston and chicago especially having to put up with the red sox, cubs and White sox and their extensive WS droughts.

[jtthasportfreak]

It sure looked like they were doing Post-Game interviews before the opening tip the way Miami got smoked last night. It's always neat when a team wins the toss and elects not to play. BTW Dennis Green is on Line 1 about that

[mfoster]

The lack of the union wage will hurt many southern states.

In case you haven't noticed, the economy today is a little different than it was 40 years ago. A union wage is irrelevent if you lack a job. Are the lack of union wages suppressing the growth of Atlanta, Florida's metros, and Fort Worth/Dallas?

I'm concerned about NO's long term viability because overnight it became the smallest market in professional sports, by a wide margin. I think OKC will be okay so long as the fans are able to disengage the Hornets in favor of the Sonics once the time comes.

Marc

[Audiodrama]

I'll throw my two cents into the mix, since I'm a born & bred Bostonian.

I'll agree with the bulk of you in saying that Boston is the best sports city in the country. To those who will jump on me, no I'm not a homer. I've been to every major sports city in the country (NYC, LA, Chicago, Seattle, Phoenix, Miami, Atlanta, Philadelphia, etc) and I'm yet to see passion matched by fans of the Sox, Pats, C's and B's.

As a quick example, I went to Chicago with a buddy of mine in August of 2005, which turned out to be the White Sox' championship year. The White Sox were on a roll, and were really a superior team than the Red Sox. We sat in the upper deck (above right field) at US Cellular Field, and the seats were split between White Sox and Red Sox fans -- and no, they weren't Chicago-born Red Sox fans; these were people who lived in New England and made the trip out to the Windy City to follow their team. My friend and I engaged in conversation with two gentlemen next to us, both adorned in South Side apparel, one in a Konerko jersey, the other in a Konerko t-shirt (Paulie is dominating the merchandise sales out there). The game featured a pitching match-up of Tim Wakefield and Jon Garland. These gentlemen not only had minimal knowledge on the knuckleballer, but had barely heard of Garland before the '05 season. At one point, one of them actually said "Wow, this Wakefield guy really came out of nowhere to help you guys this year." It went on from there for the next 3 hours.

I'm not saying all Chicago fans are that ignorant -- I know they aren't. But I'd dare you to find someone as underinformed on any given day or night at Fenway Park. Boston has the best fans because we know our :censored:. We live and breathe our teams. My bedroom is adorned with framed photos of Tom Brady, Larry Bird, Bobby Orr, Jason Varitek, Teddy Ballgame, and a plethora of other Boston icons that comprise a list too long to name. Our teams dictate the way we walk, talk, and treat the people around us. It's sick, actually. When the Red Sox were eliminated by Aaron :censored:ing Boone in 2003, I didn't talk to anyone for 3 days. My mother refused to leave the house. These people are part of our family, and we treat them like it. Tedy Bruschi, Paul Pierce, Curt Schilling and Rodney Harrison are all my brothers. Boston houses the best fans because we embrace our teams like no other. They are our blood, and we'll defend them to the brink of tears.

[ProvidenceRI]

Best professional sports cities:

1) Boston by a landslide.

2) Philly, Chicago

3) Distant third, New York

4) Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh

My requirements:

- Fans have to care about teams regardless of record

- Teams memorabilia seen throughout the city on fans bodies and heads

- Attendance

- No bandwagoners

On a side note, the reason why the south so poorly cares about their professional teams, is because they care about their local college and high school teams. And to me, college sports are real sports with real fervor and passion. I wish I was into college football, but I'm not.

If you compared UT longhorns fans to Red Sox fans, I'd give the nod to UT, but Red Sox fans would beat any Texas pro sports teams' fanbase.

Yeah, Boston may be the best pro sports city, but the best pro athlete from Mass may be Lou Merloni.

Most athletes are from Florida and Cali.

So, I guess my final comment is:

The passion of a city's pro sports fanbase is inversely proportional to the professional athletes from that city or area. Lol.

[Pat]

Boston, Philadelphia, New York, and Detroit are my top 4.

Miami looks absolutely horrible, as well as Atlanta.

[IceCap]

I'll throw my two cents into the mix, since I'm a born & bred Bostonian.

I'll agree with the bulk of you in saying that Boston is the best sports city in the country. To those who will jump on me, no I'm not a homer. I've been to every major sports city in the country (NYC, LA, Chicago, Seattle, Phoenix, Miami, Atlanta, Philadelphia, etc) and I'm yet to see passion matched by fans of the Sox, Pats, C's and B's.

I'm not going to disagree with you on most of your points, because I've never been to a sporting event in Boston, so I'm in no position to make a call one way or another. Also, judging by the posts in this forum, it seems like Boston does indeed have a fantastic sports fan base.

Go to a Leafs or Habs game in Toronto or Montréal, however, and I'll bet you'll find their passion for the Leafs or Habs to match or surpass the passion Boston fans have to the Bruins.

[Luigi74]

Wow no love for Pittsburgh the Steelers have sold out every game(not counting the scab games) since like 1972 with just season ticket sales, along with every bar being packed with fans on Sunday's, the Pirates who have sucked since the early 90's and trade away every decent player they get still draw good crowds, The Pens who are on the verge of moving still pack them in they may not be sell-outs but that is due to the over expansion of the Civic Arena during Howard Baldwin's ownership, Pitt basketball has been huge ever since the move to the Peterson Events Center, Pitt football does ok but they get killed attendance wise from noon kickoffs since so many people have their kids in youth sports during that time, and High School football games on friday nights and saturday afternoons are huge and if the schools would build big stadiums like in Texas they would pack them.

[Original6]

I don't know how anyone can make Boston out to be one of the best sports markets. Sure they have a good history with sports but lets go down the list and I'm going to compare it with my city Toronto...

Baseball:

The Red Sox are definitely ahead of the Jays, though before the strike Toronto was one of the better MLB markets, that excitement is coming back with the new ownership that actually cares again. Still they are a middle of the pack team, not a florida marlins case or even expos.

Basketball:

Raptors usually kick the Celtics butt in attendance throughout the years, even last year when the Raptors were so bad, I mean terrible, worse than the Celtics but the Raptors had better attendance than the Celts. Not to mention that the Celtics have so many banners in the "Garden" and are known for winning, what are the Raptors known for? Vince Carter and losing? Trust me the new shine of an expansion franchise is long gone.

Hockey:

No contest here, the bruins draw flies...

Football:

If Toronto had an NFL team that stadium would be packed. People really love their NFL football here, but in Boston the Pats weren't even selling out until they won a few Superbowls.

If Boston is a great sports town in many people's eyes than Toronto is most definitely a great one too.

[See Red]

No love for Denver?

The Avalanche just had a 400+ game sellout streak.

The Colorado Rockies are one of a very small amount of teams (3 or 4, I think), to sell out an entire season. And always did well in attendance despite never being any good.

The Broncos have been impossible to get tickets for for 20+ years.

I'm not sure that many people care about the Nuggets, still, though. But I think that how much we care about the Broncos should cancel out the fact that the Nuggets haven't done that well.

My vote goes to Chicago, I think. Boston's up there, though.

[Pat]

Yeah, Denver always seems to draw well for its sports teams. Im always surprised that lots of times I turn on Sports Centre I see lots of fans in Coors Field. Plus the Avalanche sellout streak, and we all know how they love the Broncos.

[Audiodrama]

I don't know how anyone can make Boston out to be one of the best sports markets. Sure they have a good history with sports but lets go down the list and I'm going to compare it with my city Toronto...

Baseball:

The Red Sox are definitely ahead of the Jays, though before the strike Toronto was one of the better MLB markets, that excitement is coming back with the new ownership that actually cares again. Still they are a middle of the pack team, not a florida marlins case or even expos.

Basketball:

Raptors usually kick the Celtics butt in attendance throughout the years, even last year when the Raptors were so bad, I mean terrible, worse than the Celtics but the Raptors had better attendance than the Celts. Not to mention that the Celtics have so many banners in the "Garden" and are known for winning, what are the Raptors known for? Vince Carter and losing? Trust me the new shine of an expansion franchise is long gone.

Hockey:

No contest here, the bruins draw flies...

Football:

If Toronto had an NFL team that stadium would be packed. People really love their NFL football here, but in Boston the Pats weren't even selling out until they won a few Superbowls.

If Boston is a great sports town in many people's eyes than Toronto is most definitely a great one too.

The Red Sox and Patriots alone comprise a bigger and more passionate fanbase than every franchise in Toronto combined. Yes, that includes the Leafs.

[tBBP]

Wow no love for Pittsburgh the Steelers have sold out every game(not counting the scab games) since like 1972 with just season ticket sales, along with every bar being packed with fans on Sunday's, the Pirates who have sucked since the early 90's and trade away every decent player they get still draw good crowds, The Pens who are on the verge of moving still pack them in they may not be sell-outs but that is due to the over expansion of the Civic Arena during Howard Baldwin's ownership, Pitt basketball has been huge ever since the move to the Peterson Events Center, Pitt football does ok but they get killed attendance wise from noon kickoffs since so many people have their kids in youth sports during that time, and High School football games on friday nights and saturday afternoons are huge and if the schools would build big stadiums like in Texas they would pack them.

I'll give you your just due in that the Pirates somehow DO continue to draw decent crowds evn though they're the MLB's second-best AAAA team; the Penguins the last two years still packed that place, to say nothing of years previous, and this year fan support is even stronger; and let's not start on the Steelers--I think that connection's WELL-KNOWN. This whole city lives and DIES with the Steelers. (By the way, most of the city is on life-support right now...right along with the Steelers.) In terms of passion, for the Steelers definitely, I'd say Pittsburgh had to be somewhere near the top of the list. Now, that may be because THERE IS NOTHING ELSE AROUND HERE TO LIVE FOR IT SEEMS (mechanization pretty much killed the Steel industry...although a couple mills still exist aroound here and a good amount of steel is still barged and trucked outta here), but still...well that and the fact that this place never really let go of the '70s mentality, it seems--back when both the Steelers and Pirates were winning championships like nobody's business. (That's an outsider's point-of-view, of course--but it has also been backed up by PLENTY OF NATIVES too.)

As far as Miami (and by extension, Tampa) goes, think about the makeup of south Florida. It's full of retirees, transients, and snowbirds. This is ESPECIALLY true for cities outside both Miami and Tampa--those being Clearwater (cloudhead central) and Ft. Lauderdale (cloudhead central #2). A good MANY of them come from right up in the New England and NY tri-state area. You think they really are going to pull for a FL-based team, knowing how fan support is for teams up in that area? Now, to be fair, Tampa natives LOVE their Bucs (I myself am not a Tampa native--but Pensacola's only 6-7 hours away), and as best as I can tell, there's more than a few who love their Lightning, too. And there are native Miamians (and a couple other Dolphin supporters around the country--mu uncle being one of them), who live and die by their Dolphins...but, just like in L.A., really there's way too much other stuff going on to really care about sports as much (speaking of Miami here more so than Tampa.)

Just my lil opinion...my two rusted Lincolns.

[IceCap]

I don't know how anyone can make Boston out to be one of the best sports markets. Sure they have a good history with sports but lets go down the list and I'm going to compare it with my city Toronto...

Baseball:

The Red Sox are definitely ahead of the Jays, though before the strike Toronto was one of the better MLB markets, that excitement is coming back with the new ownership that actually cares again. Still they are a middle of the pack team, not a florida marlins case or even expos.

Basketball:

Raptors usually kick the Celtics butt in attendance throughout the years, even last year when the Raptors were so bad, I mean terrible, worse than the Celtics but the Raptors had better attendance than the Celts. Not to mention that the Celtics have so many banners in the "Garden" and are known for winning, what are the Raptors known for? Vince Carter and losing? Trust me the new shine of an expansion franchise is long gone.

Hockey:

No contest here, the bruins draw flies...

Football:

If Toronto had an NFL team that stadium would be packed. People really love their NFL football here, but in Boston the Pats weren't even selling out until they won a few Superbowls.

If Boston is a great sports town in many people's eyes than Toronto is most definitely a great one too.

The Red Sox and Patriots alone comprise a bigger and more passionate fanbase than every franchise in Toronto combined. Yes, that includes the Leafs.

He was simply saying that the same logic you used for Boston can be used for Toronto. Leafs fans are some of the most passionate fans on the planet. I'll put them up against a Red Sox or Pats fan any day.

Comparing Leafs fans to Bruins fans? No contest.

[KevinMcD]

I think Boston is number one in the USA but Buffalo (Yes I know I am a homer) is up there. The Bills sell out almost every game in horrible weather even though the team sucks, the Sabres will most likley sell out the entire season. The Bisons were #1 in attendance in the AAA until a couple teams got brand new fancy stadiums a few years ago. In a city of 300,000 or so that is pretty good. The fans are always loud and proud to be a Buffalo fan. But as I said earlier, Boston is number one, with Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Cleveland and Philly behind Beantown.

[Steel Certain]

BOSTON: Agreed that Boston is an amazing sports town...they are unbelievably passionate about their teams...I was there after the Yanks knocked them out of the playoffs a few years ago and their was a black fog of depression over the whole city affecting EVERYONE there, regardless of age, gender or income.

PITTSBURGH: I live in Philadelphia now but am from Pittsburgh, and I gotta say that the 'Burgh is an amazing sports town. I saw the Steelers play in Dallas 3 seasons ago, and it looked like a home game. There is a full-blown & active Steeler fan club in most major cities that rallies for every game.

PHILADELPHIA: This city is full of people that have had NFL "blueballs" their entire lives. If you were to tune into WIP 610 AM right now (local sports radio in Philly) I guarantee you they are still talking about how TO cost them the Superbowl last year.

[winters in buffalo]

3-Retirement Cities: PHX, TPA, MIA, Charlotte, Raliegh, and even Colombus: It is all about economy. Some of these cities do not have union shop, plus many are transplants who only like to see their former teams. Plus in most southern states, wages are lower, so when you add disposable income, ther are less individuals with the money for season tickets. Look at the "new" New Orleans as an example. OKC will have the same issue with an 19,000 seat Ford Center. The lack of the union wage will hurt many southern states.

I'm not sure where you're from or where you've been, but your view of a few of those cities is a bit skewed.

Compared to most of your traditional "union" cities, open shop southern locales like Raleigh, Charlotte and Phoenix have a younger population with higher wages and more disposable income. Spending priorities are a bit different, though.

You're right about the transplants, though. We love our rust belt teams.