Survival79

Rays seem ready to dump Devil

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Based on what is going on behind the scenes, you are wrong.

Stuff's been "going on behind the scenes" for years. Nothing concrete has ever materialized from these behind-the-scenes meetings, and there's no real reason to believe that this time will be any different.

I'd love to be wrong about the Marlins. But the history is very consistent, and very clear.

They actually have all the money now (40-88M in money that was going to be used to refurbish the OB). It's just a matter of putting the puzzle together now.

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Once again, I'll believe it when they break ground.

The most recent article I could find on the Miami Herald was very optimistic, but still has the team and the municipality arguing over where the ballpark should be located:

Even though the $85 million in city and county funding would more than cover the funding gap, the plan depends on the Marlins making a $207 million contribution -- an amount they have not said they will match if the team is offered a stadium at the Orange Bowl.

It also notes that the team has had an agreement with the city and county twice before, but both times the deal has always fallen apart. I'd love to see it happen, but must be skeptical.

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I do believe that if they built a nice stadium in Miami the team would draw more fans. Its obvious that the stadium they play in right now is one of the worst places to watch a ballgame. I've been there before, its totally a football park. There are no baseball amenities and really no character to be quite honest. I would rank the Trop in St.Petersburg above Dolphin Stadium.

The main problem here lies in the fact that Major League Baseball hasn't really proven itself as a viable and successful business in Florida. That being the case, its really difficult for a city/state to make such a huge monatary commitment for a team that has been in or near the bottom of the attendance rankings for the majority of their existence.

I wish the team would stay. If I were a betting man I'd probably take the under on this one and say that they will stay. On a related note, The Rays don't have a chance. I doubt that MLB would want to lose BOTH Florida franchises and the Marlins are the best investment of the two markets IMO.

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1) The Rays are NOT leaving Tampa.

2) The Rays will NOT be at the Trop until 2027.......and my guess is that they'll be in a new stadium - in Tampa - before 2012.

3) Rays is a stupid name as a fish, and is completely ridiculous as a "sun ray".

4) I'm crossing my fingers that they dont blow this opportunity to rebrand like the Lightning did.

5) Stop comparing us to Miami. Please.

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1) The Rays are NOT leaving Tampa.

Agreed.

2) The Rays will NOT be at the Trop until 2027.......and my guess is that they'll be in a new stadium - in Tampa - before 2012.

I'll be generous and assume that by "before 2012" you mean, "In time for Opening Day of the 2012 season."

That would require breaking ground sometime in 2009, which in turn would require a deal to be done on the political level before elections in 2008. Which means that any deal that would get the Rays into a new ballpark by 2012 would be the subject of serious, public negotiations right now.

So please, for the edification of those of us not in Florida, throw us a link to a local news story about the stadium talks that are going on right now between the Rays and state and local officials.

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Once again, I'll believe it when they break ground.

The most recent article I could find on the Miami Herald was very optimistic, but still has the team and the municipality arguing over where the ballpark should be located:

Even though the $85 million in city and county funding would more than cover the funding gap, the plan depends on the Marlins making a $207 million contribution -- an amount they have not said they will match if the team is offered a stadium at the Orange Bowl.

It also notes that the team has had an agreement with the city and county twice before, but both times the deal has always fallen apart. I'd love to see it happen, but must be skeptical.

Both times the elusive $30 million was the deal breaker.

I'm not saying this is 100% guaranteed to happen, but it is different from all the other times.

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Yeah, but this time there is a different deal breaker - $207M from the Marlins for accepting a site other than the one they want. We'll see.

As for the Rays playing in Tampa before 2012, BigShoop, why do you think the city of St. Petersburg, who owns the lease, will let them out of it to play in the rival city? And if they can break the lease to move across the Bay, what is stopping them from moving to an entirely different city?

If the State of Florida held the lease, I'd agree with you. But the city owns Tropicana Field, and I don't see them viewing relocation to Tampa as being that preferable to relocation out of Florida.

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I do believe that if they built a nice stadium in Miami the team would draw more fans. Its obvious that the stadium they play in right now is one of the worst places to watch a ballgame. I've been there before, its totally a football park. There are no baseball amenities and really no character to be quite honest. I would rank the Trop in St.Petersburg above Dolphin Stadium.

The main problem here lies in the fact that Major League Baseball hasn't really proven itself as a viable and successful business in Florida. That being the case, its really difficult for a city/state to make such a huge monatary commitment for a team that has been in or near the bottom of the attendance rankings for the majority of their existence.

I wish the team would stay. If I were a betting man I'd probably take the under on this one and say that they will stay. On a related note, The Rays don't have a chance. I doubt that MLB would want to lose BOTH Florida franchises and the Marlins are the best investment of the two markets IMO.

Let's take a couple of things into consideration. First, when Peter Ueberroth was Commish, he went on record opposing the stadium that was to be built (Tropicana Field) in the hopes of luring an existing MLB franchise. He also stated that neither Miami or Tampa/St. Pete would/could support a MLB franchise and that the Orlando area was the only that should be considered for expansion. Second and most important, both teams have been subject to horrible ownership. The jury is still out on the current ownership for the Devil Rays and they seems to be doing things properly and building young homegrown talent. Unfortunately, they are in the AL East so to compete with the Yanks and Sox, it will take a major investment in payroll. The Marlins have been stuck with Huizenga, Henry and Loria. All have positives and negative but the worst was Henry, who when he could not get a stadium approved, sold the team and bought the Red Sox for $700 million, go figure. I think that the D-Rays will draw more fans as the team improves in the standings. As for the Marlins, who drew @400 people last week for an afternoon games against the Nats, they need to better market the team and reach out the tri-county (Miami, Broward, Palm Beach) area and promote them as a regional team. They pay to much attention to Miami and that turns off alot of fans in the other counties. Finally, the real reason that the teams will not relocate is that there is no where for them to go. Look at the alternatives, Portland, Charlotte, Las Vegas, 3rd New York team, Montreal (just kidding) or San Antonio. Nothing

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Both times the elusive $30 million was the deal breaker.

I'm not saying this is 100% guaranteed to happen, but it is different from all the other times.

You sound like a cheated spouse--"Yeah, I know he cheated before, even after I took him back, but this time is different! He's really changed!"

Think about it this way--from a business perspective, what possible reason would anyone have to buy/own the Marlins and keep them in Miami? Yeah, the current park is terrible, but even so, they had a game last week where they drew 375 people. 375!

capt.37b942ccae0f4bbf9fded94228956487.sad_september_fljc102.jpg

I understand the arguments--the park is bad, the team is bad, they were playing the Nationals--but if you're going to sink a huge chunk of money into a new park, how can you be sure that the fans are suddenly going to start coming to the games? What if the team is only mediocre? What if there's a particularly hot summer? Is a Marlins-Nationals game for fourth place in September going to draw that many more fans if it's in a nice ballpark? Unless you're a native South Floridian who is willing to risk huge losses, there's just no justification for putting one more cent into trying to keep a team in Miami whose "fans" (or most of them) obviously couldn't care less if the team is there or not.

375 people. There have been Patsox concepts where more people than that posted sarcastic responses. (Just kidding, Pat.)

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Yeah, but this time there is a different deal breaker - $207M from the Marlins for accepting a site other than the one they want. We'll see.

David Samson was on the radio today (Dan LeBatard's show) and when he was asked about the Orange Bowl site he said something to effect of, "The OB site is fine, we just need to get this damn thing built already. Time is running out."

The Marlins know a downtown site is unfeasible. They just want to get a deal done.

There is no site controversy.

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I hate to sound whiny but can we move all the stadium talk to another thread. I'm here to read about the Rays new logo/colors, not what everyone thinks about New Comiskey Park.

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There is no site controversy.

They've blown the deal before, with just as much certainty in their voice right up to the point where it all falls apart. I understand your homerism, but you do have to admit that.

But what's up with Miami? That picture is disturbing. I know the team isn't great, but they can't draw fans win or lose. I just don't understand it. I thought the market was a slam-dunk, but it's turned out to be anything but.

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Well, I'm glad I saw those before they get taken down. Congratulations, Tampa. You're the first MLB team to create your logo entirely in Microsoft Word.

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:blink:

Wow.

There have been at least a dozen Rays concepts here that look more professional. If not more.

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The sad part of those is, beyond the jaw-dropping genericness, the Ray they have recolored in their new colors looks fantastic. What a shame...

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:blink:

These can't be real.

If they are, it's a magnificent downgrade.

I'm numb right now. I'm afraid if I say anymore I'll get banned.

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I'm numb right now. I'm afraid if I say anymore I'll get banned.

I like your new sig though. :P

I'm shocked to say that I actually like their current set better. It's crisper, cooler, and more professional looking than this new crap.

Who's got two thumbs and doesn't like the changes? THIS GUY.

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