Rays seem ready to dump Devil

[Fred T. Jane]

As far as dropping the "Bay", that will never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never ever happen.

Why would they? They DO NOT play in Tampa to begin with. They play in St. Petersburg.

Petrograd would be much classier.

[TBGKon]

I've always thought an interlocking "TB" of some kind would work best, as long as it didn't scream Yankees

[Gothamite]

I agree that the current logo is kinda busy and that the lettering is boring. But if you use the old logo it works better.

I'm also noticing that Black Blue and white are the Lightning's colors as well.

Black and blue looks pretty bad-ass together.

Looks great on the screen, but those would be damn near illegible at any distance greater than about five feet.

[dunford]

The new background of their website is almost purple, and THAT would REALLY suck.

The colors look eerily similar to "Tampa Bay Devil Rays Purple" and "Tampa Bay Devil Rays Blue" from 1998 through 2000.

Image courtesy of PANTONE... any thoughts?

I'd love to see a take on the unis using the two blues and the yellow. If I had any design skills in the world - which I don't - then I would try it out.

[random_ax]

"Heck, three-syllable team names are usually too much for fans. "Rays" isn't much of a team name, but it's certainly more sensible than "Devil Rays" or "Manta Rays" or any other two-word appellation."

That makes no sense. Devil Rays os better than rays. A devil ray IS a real fish. What is not sensible about it? And three syllable names are too much for fans? What??????

Is a ray not also a real thing? A raccoon dog is a real animal; doesn't make "Raccoon Dogs" a good sports team name.

My point was simply that two-word and three-plus-syllable team names tend to get shortened anyway. If you name your team the Devil Rays, everyone knows that fans will actually call them the Rays. If you name your team the Diamond Backs, everybody knows that fans will actually call them Backs or D-Backs or something. Blue Jays become Jays. Color Sox become Sox. Athletics become A's. Nationals become Nats. Patriots become Pats. Fortey-niners become Niners. Et cetera.

Now, I don't mean to say that no team should have a two-word name or a name longer than three syllables. Just that if your long or two-word name isn't really, really good, you'd do better to pick a shorter or one-word name. And "Devil Ray" is nobody's idea of a really, really good team name.

There are rays...and then there are Devil Rays.... there are stingrays and eagle rays and skates. Devil Rays are a particular kind of ray (also known as Manta Rays). Just as Hammerhead Sharks are different than just sharks.

And yes, most fans shorten a team name (Buccaneers to Bucs, Cavaliers to Cavs) but that isn't a reason to drop the name to Rays. I don't see the Patriots calling the team the Pats or the Cardinals calling themselves the Cards just because fans will shorten it anyway.

I would hate to see the Devil Rays bow to some kind of right-wing pressure to drop "devil" from its name. The Devil Ray was named because of the horned appearance.... it's not an homage to Satan. People need to lighten up.

[powersurge]

The new background of their website is almost purple, and THAT would REALLY suck.

The colors look eerily similar to "Tampa Bay Devil Rays Purple" and "Tampa Bay Devil Rays Blue" from 1998 through 2000.

Image courtesy of PANTONE... any thoughts?

I'd love to see a take on the unis using the two blues and the yellow. If I had any design skills in the world - which I don't - then I would try it out.

Geez! Talk about using all of the colors in the Crayola box! I think I see periwinkle blue and maize, but where is burnt sienna?

[1991]

those caps would look pretty good if they just added a little bit of gray somewhere to add a little accent to it.

[huggermugger]

I agree that the current logo is kinda busy and that the lettering is boring. But if you use the old logo it works better.

I'm also noticing that Black Blue and white are the Lightning's colors as well.

Black and blue looks pretty bad-ass together.

Looks great on the screen, but those would be damn near illegible at any distance greater than about five feet.

Wrong and here are three examples of why you're wrong. Also, there are the Kingston Mets, Madison Blackwolf and not to mention that the DRays use a hunter logo on black already.

[Gothamite]

If you've ever been to Shea, you'd know that the black caps are indeed murky and illegible.

So were the Black Wolf caps - I used to catch games at Warner Park back in the mid-1990s.

Dark logos on dark backgrounds, with only a faint outline, are very hard to read at any distance. As I said before, I like the color scheme and think the designs look sharp on my screen, but I do not think them suited to an on-field baseball uniform. Fan wear, yes. On-field, no.

[huggermugger]

If you've ever been to Shea, you'd know that the black caps are indeed murky and illegible.

So were the Black Wolf caps - I used to catch games at Warner Park back in the mid-1990s.

Dark logos on dark backgrounds, with only a faint outline, are very hard to read at any distance. As I said before, I like the color scheme and think the designs look sharp on my screen, but I do not think them suited to an on-field baseball uniform. Fan wear, yes. On-field, no.

I've been to plenty of Mets games, but you're not supposed to see a 3 inch logo from the second deck anyway.

Even on TV, I've watched tons of Met games, the camera is almost alwats zoomed in on the batter or the pitchers face, so you can read it fine. And when a guy is chasing a down a double, I doubt you could make out a white logo on a black hat.

Logos are meant to be seen 5 feet away. not a hundred.

[Gothamite]

I maintain that a cap logo should at least be able to be seen in the first row of seats.

Contrast, boys. The name of the game.

[huggermugger]

I maintain that a cap logo should at least be able to be seen in the first row of seats.

Contrast, boys. The name of the game.

I agree with you that the Mets logo lacks contrast. But that is because of the orange not the blue on black.

The Madison Black Wolf worked because of the white outline. It created the contrast.

Trust me on this 4 years of Art School and 10 years of design can't be wrong.

[Gothamite]

I don't know that I agree with you. There is sufficient contrast between orange and black and orange and blue. The conflict comes with the black and blue, in this case the orange outline isn't enough to separate the two and the design becomes muddy at distance.

You have your opinion, I have mine. I also design. Let's not get into waving credentials, okay? I don't think that's particularly helpful to furthering a conversation.

[huggermugger]

I don't know that I agree with you. There is sufficient contrast between orange and black and orange and blue. The conflict comes with the black and blue, in this case the orange outline isn't enough to separate the two and the design becomes muddy at distance.

You have your opinion, I have mine. I also design. Let's not get into waving credentials, okay? I don't think that's particularly helpful to furthering a conversation.

I'd be interested in seeing what you design. have you ever posted it or is there a place to look at it? I wish more designers would actually post what they work on. It's not waving credentials, it's filling people in as to who these anonymous people are on this board.

[Gothamite]

I design for the theatre. Doesn't translate well to the "concept" forum, although I have posted some of my sports designs there.

I have no objection to discussing our personal histories, only to thinking that they confer more legitimacy on an opinion. I read your post as "trust me on this one, because I know more than you." If that was not your intent then I apologize.

[huggermugger]

Contrast, boys. The name of the game.

and this doesn't sound like "I know better than you?"

[Gothamite]

I don't intend it that way.

I think I've expressed fully in this thread that my opinions are solely my opinion, and are in no way more valid just because I do some design work, or what school I went to, or how well-coordinated what I'm wearing right now is.

[BallWonk]

Wrong and here are three examples of why you're wrong. Also, there are the Kingston Mets, Madison Blackwolf and not to mention that the DRays use a hunter logo on black already.

So as "proof" you offer up a Rays cap that even when seen up close and in person is basically an illegible blob of indeterminate darkness?

Black and light blue can work, if balanced correctly. As in the excellent Bulls cap you show there. But the 51s cap and the Mets cap you show are proof positive of how hard it is to make black and blue work together. There is too little contrast in each for any kind of fan visibility, and in point of fact the whole point of a sports uniform is to allow the fans easily to distinguish teams. A low-visibility cap logo is, objectively, bad design. It may be pretty and beautiful and all, but a cap logo that cannot be distinguished at a decent distance is simply a design failure. Period.

Rule of thumb: If it involves black, and the Mets have done it, it's bad design.

The black and blue Rays caps above would all make terrible ballcaps, but their main problem is in the shades used and the balance between black and blue elements. A lighter blue might just work with the designs shown, and a little yellow would go a long way toward allowing us to see the difference between two darkish shades.

[powersurge]

I don't know that I agree with you. There is sufficient contrast between orange and black and orange and blue. The conflict comes with the black and blue, in this case the orange outline isn't enough to separate the two and the design becomes muddy at distance.

You have your opinion, I have mine. I also design. Let's not get into waving credentials, okay? I don't think that's particularly helpful to furthering a conversation.

I'd be interested in seeing what you design. have you ever posted it or is there a place to look at it? I wish more designers would actually post what they work on. It's not waving credentials, it's filling people in as to who these anonymous people are on this board.

Huggermugger, don't waste your breath with this guy....he is omnipotent (or atleast he acts that way) If you told him the world is round he'd find a way to argue that it is flat just to argue. Move on.

[huggermugger]

I don't know that I agree with you. There is sufficient contrast between orange and black and orange and blue. The conflict comes with the black and blue, in this case the orange outline isn't enough to separate the two and the design becomes muddy at distance.

You have your opinion, I have mine. I also design. Let's not get into waving credentials, okay? I don't think that's particularly helpful to furthering a conversation.

I'd be interested in seeing what you design. have you ever posted it or is there a place to look at it? I wish more designers would actually post what they work on. It's not waving credentials, it's filling people in as to who these anonymous people are on this board.

Huggermugger, don't waste your breath with this guy....he is omnipotent (or atleast he acts that way) If you told him the world is round he'd find a way to argue that it is flat just to argue. Move on.

Wow thanks, I'm glad you said it. I have had that experience with him as well. Although he will debate everything unless it was posted by Pantone. Then he always agrees.