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March Madness 2007


bterreson

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And once again, Bill Self misses the Final Four.

Karma :censored:er.

Karma? That's a little harsh, don't you think?

Please don't take this the wrong way. Illinois is a nice program, and they've had some success of late. But there's a definite gap between elite programs like Kansas and that second level of programs, which includes Illinois. You can be spiteful that Self left you, but he traded up - like from a Mercedes to a Bentley, from better to best. It's hard to fault him for that, and all things being equal, you'd do the same (unless you were an Illinois alum who'd stay for sentimental reasons, and Self went to Oklahoma State).

The numbers bear out my point.

Illinois has had modest success nationally:

- a (non-NCAA) national title in '14-'15;

- 3 3rd place NCAA finishes ('49, '51, '52);

- 27 NCAA tourney appearances, and 3 trips to the NIT;

- a Final 4 in '89;

- a loss in the championship in 2005;

- 1546 wins in the history of the program, 15th all-time.

There's been some success within the Big Ten as well, with 17 conference titles going back to 1906, the first season of Illini hoops. But... 5 of them have come in the past decade, leaving 12 for the first 93 seasons.

Individual success has been less frequent: one national POY (Dee Brown, 2006), 5 consensus 1st team All-Americans (1 did it twice), 1 Olympic gold medalist, 4 Big Ten POY (but only 1 before the recent wave of success), 14 1st-round NBA picks, and 4 alums in the Hall of Fame (though only 1 payed for the Illini).

Now, Kansas - first, nationally:

- 2 (non-NCAA) titles in '21-'22, '22-'23;

- 5 2nd place NCAA finishes;

- 35 NCAA tourney appearances, including 19 seasons in a row;

- 2 NCAA titles ('52, '88);

- 12 Final Fours;

- 20 Top 10 finishes in the media and coaches polls (Illinois has fewer than 10 in each);

- 1848 wins going into this season, good for 3rd all-time (after Kentucky, UNC).

As for individual success, Kansas has 12 Olympic champions, 16 1st-round draft picks, 6 national POY, 11 consensus 1st-team All-Americans (5 guys who did it twice), and 14 Hall of Famers... including Dr. Naismith, for whom the Hall of Fame is named for. In fact, by record, he's the least successful coach in KU history.

You want to talk coaches? Illinois's 5 best would be Henson, Combes, Kruger, Self and Weber (each of the last 3 lasted fewer than 5 seasons there). Kansas counters with Naismith, Phog Allen, Larry Brown, Roy Williams, Dick Harp and Ted Owens. I won't even put Bill Self on this list.

An all-time Kansas team would have 4 of the following unable to crack the starting lineup: Wilt Chamberlain, Clyde Lovellette, Danny Manning, Paul Pierce, Nick Collison, JoJo White, Raef LaFrentz, Jacques Vaughn and Kirk Heinrich might not even start. Illinois couldn't match that, not on its best day. And I haven't mentioned that Dean Smith and Adolph Rupp both played at KU, if I needed a tiebreaker.

Allen Fieldhouse v. Assembly Hall. Again, the edge goes to KU, although it's probably closer than most care to admit.

So... KU trumps Illinois if comparing a) team history, B) individual history, c) coaches, d) facilities, e) prestige. Kansas is among the 6 truly elite programs (Kentucky, UNC, Kansas, Duke, Indiana, UCLA), and to stay at a lesser program, no matter how good it is, would be folly. You don't get the chance to run a prestige program like KU every day, and even it meant leaving a very good program on the rise, it was the right move. Either way, I wouldn't think it's karma.

"Start spreading the news... They're leavin' today... Won't get to be a part of it... In old New York..."

2007nleastchamps.png

In order for the Mets' run of 12 losses in 17 games to mean something, the Phillies still had to win 13 of 17.

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And once again, Bill Self misses the Final Four.

Karma :censored:er.

Karma? That's a little harsh, don't you think?

Please don't take this the wrong way. Illinois is a nice program, and they've had some success of late. But there's a definite gap between elite programs like Kansas and that second level of programs, which includes Illinois. You can be spiteful that Self left you, but he traded up - like from a Mercedes to a Bentley, from better to best. It's hard to fault him for that, and all things being equal, you'd do the same (unless you were an Illinois alum who'd stay for sentimental reasons, and Self went to Oklahoma State).

The numbers bear out my point.

Illinois has had modest success nationally:

- a (non-NCAA) national title in '14-'15;

- 3 3rd place NCAA finishes ('49, '51, '52);

- 27 NCAA tourney appearances, and 3 trips to the NIT;

- a Final 4 in '89;

- a loss in the championship in 2005;

- 1546 wins in the history of the program, 15th all-time.

There's been some success within the Big Ten as well, with 17 conference titles going back to 1906, the first season of Illini hoops. But... 5 of them have come in the past decade, leaving 12 for the first 93 seasons.

Individual success has been less frequent: one national POY (Dee Brown, 2006), 5 consensus 1st team All-Americans (1 did it twice), 1 Olympic gold medalist, 4 Big Ten POY (but only 1 before the recent wave of success), 14 1st-round NBA picks, and 4 alums in the Hall of Fame (though only 1 payed for the Illini).

Now, Kansas - first, nationally:

- 2 (non-NCAA) titles in '21-'22, '22-'23;

- 5 2nd place NCAA finishes;

- 35 NCAA tourney appearances, including 19 seasons in a row;

- 2 NCAA titles ('52, '88);

- 12 Final Fours;

- 20 Top 10 finishes in the media and coaches polls (Illinois has fewer than 10 in each);

- 1848 wins going into this season, good for 3rd all-time (after Kentucky, UNC).

As for individual success, Kansas has 12 Olympic champions, 16 1st-round draft picks, 6 national POY, 11 consensus 1st-team All-Americans (5 guys who did it twice), and 14 Hall of Famers... including Dr. Naismith, for whom the Hall of Fame is named for. In fact, by record, he's the least successful coach in KU history.

You want to talk coaches? Illinois's 5 best would be Henson, Combes, Kruger, Self and Weber (each of the last 3 lasted fewer than 5 seasons there). Kansas counters with Naismith, Phog Allen, Larry Brown, Roy Williams, Dick Harp and Ted Owens. I won't even put Bill Self on this list.

An all-time Kansas team would have 4 of the following unable to crack the starting lineup: Wilt Chamberlain, Clyde Lovellette, Danny Manning, Paul Pierce, Nick Collison, JoJo White, Raef LaFrentz, Jacques Vaughn and Kirk Heinrich might not even start. Illinois couldn't match that, not on its best day. And I haven't mentioned that Dean Smith and Adolph Rupp both played at KU, if I needed a tiebreaker.

Allen Fieldhouse v. Assembly Hall. Again, the edge goes to KU, although it's probably closer than most care to admit.

So... KU trumps Illinois if comparing a) team history, B) individual history, c) coaches, d) facilities, e) prestige. Kansas is among the 6 truly elite programs (Kentucky, UNC, Kansas, Duke, Indiana, UCLA), and to stay at a lesser program, no matter how good it is, would be folly. You don't get the chance to run a prestige program like KU every day, and even it meant leaving a very good program on the rise, it was the right move. Either way, I wouldn't think it's karma.

Kansas may be better historically than Illinois, but the state of Illinois is quite obsessed with basketball-maybe not to the point of those psychos to the immediate East-but it's close. Therefore, by essentially abandoning the most prominent basketball program in the state, a program that was again rising to national prominence, he became sporting public enemy #1 in Illinois. (#2, BTW is that toolbox Bruce "I went out of my way to frame Illinois for recruiting violations" Pearl).

I will say one other thing about Self though...he's looking more and more like the Marty Schottenheimer of college basketball, so if Illinois wants postseason success, they may be better off without him. He's still a turncoat and a traitor, though. Karma...

On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said:
You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now.
On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said:
Today, we are all otaku.

"The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert

POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010

The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy)

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If anyone just say the NCAA Div. II Finals between Barton and Winona State you saw one of the most exciting finishes to a game I have ever seen.

wild! wow!

Barton 77

Winona State 75

Agreed. I look away for a few seconds thinking the game is over, then I turn around and see the Barton players going bat:censored:. Turns out they end up winning. I saw the replay and I was like "Wow, way to end a 50+ winning streak. You lost by .1 of a second."

I caught only the time just prior to this clip

I was thinking, OK game's over time to go out... I came back and I read the headline in SI.com The amazing thing is that, if you notice the beginning of that clip, Atkinson was ALREADY announced as the player of game.

.. and speaking of madness Rutgers beat Duke on the women's side when a Duke player was on the free throw line with her team down by 1 and with .1 left. SHe missed BOTH free throws.

I saw, I came, I left.

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Kansas may be better historically than Illinois, but the state of Illinois is quite obsessed with basketball-maybe not to the point of those psychos to the immediate East-but it's close. Therefore, by essentially abandoning the most prominent basketball program in the state, a program that was again rising to national prominence, he became sporting public enemy #1 in Illinois. (#2, BTW is that toolbox Bruce "I went out of my way to frame Illinois for recruiting violations" Pearl).

Being historically better is only a part of why he left. Kansas is a better job than Illinois for every reason I already listed, and more. Kansas is one of the select prime programs in college basketball, and when a school like Kansas comes knocking, you go. The only reason the job even came open is because KU's coach left to go to another member of college basketball's royalty, and his alma mater, which he had already turned down once and could not do it again when he saw the turmoil they were in. Roy Williams wouldn't leave Kansas for Illinois; it doesn't work the other way.

Watch the Billy Donovan situation in Florida verrrrrrrrry carefully. Kentucky is dangling the throne of college basketball in front of him; while he has turned Florida into a great program, Florida's hoops tradition goes back as far as... Dan Cross? Udonis Haslem? Do you honestly think Florida can stack up against the mystique of Kentucky, unless they pay millions and millions of dollars to keep Donovan in Gainesville? Even though UF has beaten UK 6 times in a row, Florida will NEVER be Kentucky. Ever.

It's nice to be basketball-rabid. It's nice to be the biggest program in Illinois. But you're badly missing the point. The Illinois program isn't royalty. Bill Self was offered the chance to join royalty, and took it. What ties did he have to Illinois where being at the biggest program in the state would matter more than seizing a chance to jump to the highest echelon in his field? Being the biggest program in Illinois is like being the biggest program in Oregon; it's nice if you're from there, but it is not the end-all and be-all in terms of the national picture.

Look at this way: you're dating a girl. You've got some things going for you: good athlete, captain of the baseball team, valedictorian, and you drive a new car. One day, you and your girl are hanging out at the mall when a limousine rolls up next to you. Brad Pitt [or George Clooney... you get the idea] gets out and starts flirting with your girl, right in front of you. He's got more money, he's better looking, he's a world famous actor; you're... you. If you think you're girl's choosing you over a lifetime of fame, luxury and Brad Pitt, you're delusional.

Sure, you're going to be bitter; you're the jilted ex. But she's probably forgotten about you before she boards the private jet to fly to Tahiti. Bill Self moved on; you're better off doing the same, and loving the one you're now with. Bruce Weber looks like a good coach, and he'll find success at Illinois, but whether you like it or not, Illinois's program just doesn't have the same prestige as Kansas (or UCLA, UNC, Duke, Kentucky or Indiana), and they likely never will - at least not any time soon.

"Start spreading the news... They're leavin' today... Won't get to be a part of it... In old New York..."

2007nleastchamps.png

In order for the Mets' run of 12 losses in 17 games to mean something, the Phillies still had to win 13 of 17.

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Kansas may be better historically than Illinois, but the state of Illinois is quite obsessed with basketball-maybe not to the point of those psychos to the immediate East-but it's close. Therefore, by essentially abandoning the most prominent basketball program in the state, a program that was again rising to national prominence, he became sporting public enemy #1 in Illinois. (#2, BTW is that toolbox Bruce "I went out of my way to frame Illinois for recruiting violations" Pearl).

Being historically better is only a part of why he left. Kansas is a better job than Illinois for every reason I already listed, and more. Kansas is one of the select prime programs in college basketball, and when a school like Kansas comes knocking, you go. The only reason the job even came open is because KU's coach left to go to another member of college basketball's royalty, and his alma mater, which he had already turned down once and could not do it again when he saw the turmoil they were in. Roy Williams wouldn't leave Kansas for Illinois; it doesn't work the other way.

Watch the Billy Donovan situation in Florida verrrrrrrrry carefully. Kentucky is dangling the throne of college basketball in front of him; while he has turned Florida into a great program, Florida's hoops tradition goes back as far as... Dan Cross? Udonis Haslem? Do you honestly think Florida can stack up against the mystique of Kentucky, unless they pay millions and millions of dollars to keep Donovan in Gainesville? Even though UF has beaten UK 6 times in a row, Florida will NEVER be Kentucky. Ever.

It's nice to be basketball-rabid. It's nice to be the biggest program in Illinois. But you're badly missing the point. The Illinois program isn't royalty. Bill Self was offered the chance to join royalty, and took it. What ties did he have to Illinois where being at the biggest program in the state would matter more than seizing a chance to jump to the highest echelon in his field? Being the biggest program in Illinois is like being the biggest program in Oregon; it's nice if you're from there, but it is not the end-all and be-all in terms of the national picture.

Look at this way: you're dating a girl. You've got some things going for you: good athlete, captain of the baseball team, valedictorian, and you drive a new car. One day, you and your girl are hanging out at the mall when a limousine rolls up next to you. Brad Pitt [or George Clooney... you get the idea] gets out and starts flirting with your girl, right in front of you. He's got more money, he's better looking, he's a world famous actor; you're... you. If you think you're girl's choosing you over a lifetime of fame, luxury and Brad Pitt, you're delusional.

Sure, you're going to be bitter; you're the jilted ex. But she's probably forgotten about you before she boards the private jet to fly to Tahiti. Bill Self moved on; you're better off doing the same, and loving the one you're now with. Bruce Weber looks like a good coach, and he'll find success at Illinois, but whether you like it or not, Illinois's program just doesn't have the same prestige as Kansas (or UCLA, UNC, Duke, Kentucky or Indiana), and they likely never will - at least not any time soon.

Oh, so close! :D

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Kansas may be better historically than Illinois, but the state of Illinois is quite obsessed with basketball-maybe not to the point of those psychos to the immediate East-but it's close. Therefore, by essentially abandoning the most prominent basketball program in the state, a program that was again rising to national prominence, he became sporting public enemy #1 in Illinois. (#2, BTW is that toolbox Bruce "I went out of my way to frame Illinois for recruiting violations" Pearl).

Being historically better is only a part of why he left. Kansas is a better job than Illinois for every reason I already listed, and more. Kansas is one of the select prime programs in college basketball, and when a school like Kansas comes knocking, you go. The only reason the job even came open is because KU's coach left to go to another member of college basketball's royalty, and his alma mater, which he had already turned down once and could not do it again when he saw the turmoil they were in. Roy Williams wouldn't leave Kansas for Illinois; it doesn't work the other way.

Watch the Billy Donovan situation in Florida verrrrrrrrry carefully. Kentucky is dangling the throne of college basketball in front of him; while he has turned Florida into a great program, Florida's hoops tradition goes back as far as... Dan Cross? Udonis Haslem? Do you honestly think Florida can stack up against the mystique of Kentucky, unless they pay millions and millions of dollars to keep Donovan in Gainesville? Even though UF has beaten UK 6 times in a row, Florida will NEVER be Kentucky. Ever.

It's nice to be basketball-rabid. It's nice to be the biggest program in Illinois. But you're badly missing the point. The Illinois program isn't royalty. Bill Self was offered the chance to join royalty, and took it. What ties did he have to Illinois where being at the biggest program in the state would matter more than seizing a chance to jump to the highest echelon in his field? Being the biggest program in Illinois is like being the biggest program in Oregon; it's nice if you're from there, but it is not the end-all and be-all in terms of the national picture.

Look at this way: you're dating a girl. You've got some things going for you: good athlete, captain of the baseball team, valedictorian, and you drive a new car. One day, you and your girl are hanging out at the mall when a limousine rolls up next to you. Brad Pitt [or George Clooney... you get the idea] gets out and starts flirting with your girl, right in front of you. He's got more money, he's better looking, he's a world famous actor; you're... you. If you think you're girl's choosing you over a lifetime of fame, luxury and Brad Pitt, you're delusional.

Sure, you're going to be bitter; you're the jilted ex. But she's probably forgotten about you before she boards the private jet to fly to Tahiti. Bill Self moved on; you're better off doing the same, and loving the one you're now with. Bruce Weber looks like a good coach, and he'll find success at Illinois, but whether you like it or not, Illinois's program just doesn't have the same prestige as Kansas (or UCLA, UNC, Duke, Kentucky or Indiana), and they likely never will - at least not any time soon.

I'm saying it is possible to make schools royalty and to also have them drop off (honestly, I would take less joy working at said Kentucky jobs than at some other schools given how they hounded Tubby), which would be an even greater accomplishment for Self. Instead he dumps on the program he was building only after 3 years. Bruce Weber is a good coach as well, and quite honestly doesn't deserve all the criticism the Chicago media is tossing his way either.

But hey...how good of a program is Kansas really? They're winless lifetime against Bradley... :P

On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said:
You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now.
On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said:
Today, we are all otaku.

"The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert

POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010

The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy)

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The dream is over....but we gave the Gators hell, oh boy we gave them hell.

If TP had had even a 33% shooting day, this is a different ballgame...

look out for these Ducks next year. All we're really losing is Aaron Brooks. Big loss, but four out of five starters - Maarty, Malik, Bryce and Tajuan - are returning. Watch out, Pac-10. Look out, NCAA tournament. If we come back hungry this November...

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So we can safely call any school in the top 10 in wins basketball royalty, yes?

*scans list*

No.

On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said:
You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now.
On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said:
Today, we are all otaku.

"The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert

POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010

The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy)

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So we can safely call any school in the top 10 in wins basketball royalty, yes?

*scans list*No.
You sure? That's Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, Syracuse, Indiana...

St. John's, Temple, Pennsylvania, Notre Dame... :rolleyes: (Granted the list I'm looking at is as of 2004, so 11-15 includes Utah, UCLA, Oregon State, Princeton, and Illinois)

On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said:
You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now.
On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said:
Today, we are all otaku.

"The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert

POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010

The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy)

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Share on other sites

Kansas may be better historically than Illinois, but the state of Illinois is quite obsessed with basketball-maybe not to the point of those psychos to the immediate East-but it's close. Therefore, by essentially abandoning the most prominent basketball program in the state, a program that was again rising to national prominence, he became sporting public enemy #1 in Illinois. (#2, BTW is that toolbox Bruce "I went out of my way to frame Illinois for recruiting violations" Pearl).

Being historically better is only a part of why he left. Kansas is a better job than Illinois for every reason I already listed, and more. Kansas is one of the select prime programs in college basketball, and when a school like Kansas comes knocking, you go. The only reason the job even came open is because KU's coach left to go to another member of college basketball's royalty, and his alma mater, which he had already turned down once and could not do it again when he saw the turmoil they were in. Roy Williams wouldn't leave Kansas for Illinois; it doesn't work the other way.

Watch the Billy Donovan situation in Florida verrrrrrrrry carefully. Kentucky is dangling the throne of college basketball in front of him; while he has turned Florida into a great program, Florida's hoops tradition goes back as far as... Dan Cross? Udonis Haslem? Do you honestly think Florida can stack up against the mystique of Kentucky, unless they pay millions and millions of dollars to keep Donovan in Gainesville? Even though UF has beaten UK 6 times in a row, Florida will NEVER be Kentucky. Ever.

It's nice to be basketball-rabid. It's nice to be the biggest program in Illinois. But you're badly missing the point. The Illinois program isn't royalty. Bill Self was offered the chance to join royalty, and took it. What ties did he have to Illinois where being at the biggest program in the state would matter more than seizing a chance to jump to the highest echelon in his field? Being the biggest program in Illinois is like being the biggest program in Oregon; it's nice if you're from there, but it is not the end-all and be-all in terms of the national picture.

Look at this way: you're dating a girl. You've got some things going for you: good athlete, captain of the baseball team, valedictorian, and you drive a new car. One day, you and your girl are hanging out at the mall when a limousine rolls up next to you. Brad Pitt [or George Clooney... you get the idea] gets out and starts flirting with your girl, right in front of you. He's got more money, he's better looking, he's a world famous actor; you're... you. If you think you're girl's choosing you over a lifetime of fame, luxury and Brad Pitt, you're delusional.

Sure, you're going to be bitter; you're the jilted ex. But she's probably forgotten about you before she boards the private jet to fly to Tahiti. Bill Self moved on; you're better off doing the same, and loving the one you're now with. Bruce Weber looks like a good coach, and he'll find success at Illinois, but whether you like it or not, Illinois's program just doesn't have the same prestige as Kansas (or UCLA, UNC, Duke, Kentucky or Indiana), and they likely never will - at least not any time soon.

I'm saying it is possible to make schools royalty and to also have them drop off (honestly, I would take less joy working at said Kentucky jobs than at some other schools given how they hounded Tubby), which would be an even greater accomplishment for Self. Instead he dumps on the program he was building only after 3 years. Bruce Weber is a good coach as well, and quite honestly doesn't deserve all the criticism the Chicago media is tossing his way either.

But hey...how good of a program is Kansas really? They're winless lifetime against Bradley... :P

You say to watch Donovan carefully. The thing is, now that he's made the Final Four again he's basically a God in Gainesville. He made the entire basketball program what it is. Do you think he'd leave that kind of situation to go to a pressure cookier like Kentucky? Yes UK has more tradition over the years, but Donovan could be establishing tradition right now. Then maybe in 30 years Florida might seem like the Kentuckys and the Georgetowns if they keep winning. It's a big if...but then again it was a big if that Florida would do ANYTHING when Donovan got to Gainesville.

"Every morning in Africa, a gazelle wakes up. It knows it must run faster than the fastest lion or it will be eaten. Every morning in Africa, a lion wakes up. It knows it must outrun the slowest gazelle or it will starve. It doesn't matter whether you're a lion or a gazelle. When the sun comes up, you'd better be running." - Unknown | 🌐 Check out my articles on jerseys at Bacon Sports 🔗
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Just remember... Harvard and Yale were royalty in College Football, along with Notre Dame!

*ducks*

[Croatia National Team Manager Slavan] Bilic then went on to explain how Croatia's success can partially be put down to his progressive man-management techniques. "Sometimes I lie in the bed with my players. I go to the room of Vedran Corluka and Luka Modric when I see they have a problem and I lie in bed with them and we talk for 10 minutes." Maybe Capello could try getting through to his players this way too? Although how far he'd get with Joe Cole jumping up and down on the mattress and Rooney demanding to be read his favourite page from The Very Hungry Caterpillar is open to question. --The Guardian's Fiver, 08 September 2008

Attention: In order to obtain maximum enjoyment from your stay at the CCSLC, the reader is advised that the above post may contain large amounts of sarcasm, dry humour, or statements which should not be taken in any true sort of seriousness. As a result, the above poster absolves himself of any and all blame in the event that a forum user responds to the aforementioned post without taking the previous notice into account. Thank you for your cooperation, and enjoy your stay at the CCSLC.

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By the way, must say it...

Florida

Georgetown

UCLA

Ohio State

(Four for four!)

(bow) Me too

I'm one for four (bow):D

I had:

Oregon

G'Town

Pitt(not sure why I even picked them, they don't impress me against good teams)

Texas

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