March Madness 2007

[WJMorris3]

Here's the catch. To win my money pool, not only do I need Georgetown to beat Florida for the national championship, but I need the total score to be less than 140 points.

[infrared41]

By the way, must say it...

Florida

Georgetown

UCLA

Ohio State

(Four for four!)

Me too

Well you had more faith in Ohio State than I did. I'd like to play Florida in the championship game and win big for a little revenge...If we get that far.

[georgie6543]

3/4. I had Texas in the Final Four for some strange reason...

[Sport]

I had wisconsin and Pitt in final four. So I'm 2 out of four, correctly guessing Georgetown and Ohio State. My streak of 7 consecutive years with at least 2 teams in the final four continues, although just barely.

[Audiodrama]

By the way, must say it...

Florida

Georgetown

UCLA

Ohio State

(Four for four!)

Me too

Me three!

[McCall]

Well, I was sittin fine after the first day of the second round, with my entire Elite 8 still intact,but the second day pretty well killed me. I was left with only 11 possible games to win. But......

I PICKED ALL FINAL 4 TEAMS!! Now, if only Florida can beat Ohio State in the Championship game with a game total of 138 points, I will look like a frickin genius....that is, unless you go back and look at the rest of my tournament. Then I just got lucky.

[Nervous One]

I went 3 for 4 (I had Texas A&M instead of Ohio State). The South ruined me. My championship game (G-Town over Florida) can still happen.

[PeytonManningRocks]

Heh...I made the stupid decision of picking UNC to win it all...if they had won I would have had all my Final Four in. But even then I still wouldn't have won, since my Elite 8 was pretty much ruined in the 2nd round (thanks for nothing, Louisville, Wazzou!)

[KevinMcD]

My National Championship pick is still alive but.....

The rest of my Final Four is out

Stupid Kansas, Wisconsin, & Texas A+M

[yh]

I had Syracuse, Mississippi State, Air Force and Clemson in my final 4. I'm guessing I'm not going to win.

[TFoA]

I had SIU v. Florida, and G-Town v. OSU.

I got 3 out of 4 right, if G-Town can win and Florida can take care of business and Florida wins, then I'm looking at $$$, because everybody in my pool is an idiot.

[OnWis97]

I went 3 for 4 and decided to get cute with Washington State in the Final 4. I am ranked 140 in a 213 person pool. My wife went 4 for 4 and is #11. She could finish as high as 4. As Jerry Seinfeld said while drinking a fruit coolee (sp)..."It's very emasculating."

[Shumway]

Apparently, in the CCLSC Yahoo! Pick Em, I managed to do well. I had 3/4 in the final four, although I had Oregon in the finals. Plus, I didn't even pick a winner of the whole tourney, so I'm done.

[VitaminD]

So we can safely call any school in the top 10 in wins basketball royalty, yes?

*scans list*No.

You sure? That's Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, Syracuse, Indiana...

As of the present day, here's the all-time wins list:

1. Kentucky, 1948 wins, season over

2. North Carolina, 1914 wins, season over

3. Kansas, 1906 wins, season over

4. Duke, 1818 wins, season over

5. Syracuse, 1704 wins, season over

6. Temple, 1668 wins, season over (NOTE: program has played 110 seasons)

7. St. John's, 1659 wins, season over

8. Penn, 1634 wins, season over

9. UCLA, 1611 wins, still playing (NOTE: program has played 87 seasons)

10. Indiana, 1610 wins, season over

11. Notre Dame, 1605 wins, season over

12. Utah, 1595 wins, season over

It's not as simple as saying that the "top XX" teams on any list is college basketball royalty. Syracuse has more wins than schools like UCLA and Indiana, yet the Orange aren't on the same level with either program. Penn will continue to bang out 25 wins a year and be up near the top, but who do they play? With Princeton's program in the toilet, there isn't a single decent Ivy League team, which ensures Penn 14 wins a year for the foreseeable future. UCLA only cracked this list this season.

So what else makes a program elite? Championships, for one. Kentucky, UNC, Indiana, Duke, UCLA and Kansas have all won multiple NCAA tournaments, and have also won NIT titles and end-of-season polls that conferred national championship status. Of the next tier, Temple won an NIT and made 2 Final Fours. Syracuse won 1 NCAA title. Others have had success, they don't have the trophies.

Beyond wins and titles, there is a certain undefinable quality that separates the elite from the next tier down. Some schools have it for a fleeting moment (Georgetown in the 1980s had it, but they've been playing ball at G'town for 100 years; besides Paul Tagliabue, how much do we know about the Hoyas pre-Patrick Ewing?), but a few schools have maintained it for decades.

Membership to this elite level can be obtained (to answer rams's question) - Duke would be the most obvious example of that. Duke was a forgettable program until Vic Bubas raised it to prominence in the 1960s; Mike Krzyzewski *shudder* took over a flagging program in the early 1980s and built it into what it is today. Even saying that, it took Duke's prolonged run of excellence through the past 20+ years, coupled with a run of glory in its past, to get it to the elite level.

Could a school like Illinois, in the 2nd tier with many other very good programs, make that leap? Of course. But it would take much more than a couple good years to merit consideration. It would take 20-25 years of dominating the Big Ten with a title or two thrown in to get to the point where Illinois didn't recruit kids as much as they selected who they saw fit to wear their uniform - a sort of "don't call us, we'll call you" mentality that the prestige programs have when it comes time to plunder the rosters of the McDonald's All-America sqauds. That's when you've arrived at the elite level - when all your games are on TV, people with no affiliation to your school are wearing your gear, when you're fighting with the other elites to land recruits.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Another super-informative post here.

I would like to posit that if Syracuse is below UCLA, UNC, Indiana, Kansas, UK and Duke (and as an Orange fan I have to sadly accept that), they are at least above Temple, SJU, Notre Dame and the others on that list. If SU isn't 4.0, they're at least 3.85.

Of course, SU's national perception shouldn't affect if and how I root for the team, but I think coming from Upstate New York and dealing with SU's past failures (89, 96) and the black cloud that is the Buffalo Bills leaves a chip on one's shoulder. Can we at least give private universities like SU and Duke extra credit for reaching the heights that they have?

[rams80]

Another super-informative post here.

I would like to posit that if Syracuse is below UCLA, UNC, Indiana, Kansas, UK and Duke (and as an Orange fan I have to sadly accept that), they are at least above Temple, SJU, Notre Dame and the others on that list. If SU isn't 4.0, they're at least 3.85.

Of course, SU's national perception shouldn't affect if and how I root for the team, but I think coming from Upstate New York and dealing with SU's past failures (89, 96) and the black cloud that is the Buffalo Bills leaves a chip on one's shoulder. Can we at least give private universities like SU and Duke extra credit for reaching the heights that they have?

I don't have their athletic budgets in front of me, but I'm sure that SU and Duke's athletic budget would blow most schools' out of the water. That helps immensely when you are striving for great heights.

[VitaminD]

I would like to posit that if Syracuse is below UCLA, UNC, Indiana, Kansas, UK and Duke (and as an Orange fan I have to sadly accept that), they are at least above Temple, SJU, Notre Dame and the others on that list. If SU isn't 4.0, they're at least 3.85.

I couldn't agree with you more. The 'Cuse is very much a part of that 2nd tier just below the highest echelon. Would you accept Maryland, Illinois, Georgetown, Arizona and Ohio State as suitable peers? Remember, the all-time wins list is just one part that contributes to the larger picture of a program's status.

Of course, SU's national perception shouldn't affect if and how I root for the team, but I think coming from Upstate New York and dealing with SU's past failures (89, 96) and the black cloud that is the Buffalo Bills leaves a chip on one's shoulder. Can we at least give private universities like SU and Duke extra credit for reaching the heights that they have?

Again, I couldn't agree more. Black cloud or no, they've acquitted themselves just fine. Of the hundreds of schools that play D-I ball, being listed among schools #7-12 is really nothing to sneeze at. Not even a little bit.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

I would like to posit that if Syracuse is below UCLA, UNC, Indiana, Kansas, UK and Duke (and as an Orange fan I have to sadly accept that), they are at least above Temple, SJU, Notre Dame and the others on that list. If SU isn't 4.0, they're at least 3.85.

I couldn't agree with you more. The 'Cuse is very much a part of that 2nd tier just below the highest echelon. Would you accept Maryland, Illinois, Georgetown, Arizona and Ohio State as suitable peers? Remember, the all-time wins list is just one part that contributes to the larger picture of a program's status.

Maryland and Georgetown sure. Is Arizona's success more recent, though? Like the 90's onward? If so, they have a bit of catching up to do. Sorry to say it, but the Big Ten also-rans don't rank with me.

Now where does Michigan State fit into this? They were dominant in the early 2000's and have one of the best teams of all time back in 80 with Magic.

[See Red]

Two things.

First, is Greg Oden ever not in foul trouble?

Second, Jeff Green is entirely too passive.

[McCall]

Okay, so I called all four Final Four teams, and now I've correctly called the Championship game. So if Florida wins and there's a combined score of 138 points, I will have achieved Supreme Awesomeness.