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Help Bring Back The Jets


josh_cat_eyes

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Sodboy, just because it's been said before doesn't mean it's fact. According to estimates from those who have crunched the numbers, for an NHL franchise to break even in the current (too small - 15000 seat capacity) MTS Centre, average ticket prices would be $60 to $70, not $85 for the worst seats in the house. That's still above the NHL's average, but I think Winnipeggers would step up and pay that this time around.

Also, I have heard that there is a possibility that the MTS centre can be expanded. Supposedly the arena can be expanded to 16000 seats with some significant renovations. I have also heard that an even larger capacity is possible with massive renovations (building the arena higher).

It all comes down to dollars and cents. If there were 30 healthy NHL teams, all of which were making money or breaking even, I'd say there would be zero chance of a return to Winnipeg. But like I said, there are a number of teams in the NHL that are hemorrhaging money with no relief in sight. If Winnipeg ever gets an opportunity, it will be from one of these franchises looking for relief.

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Winnipeg's brand-new, sparkling arena was built too small to realistically accommodate an NHL franchise as anything other than a holdover for a couple of seasons.

If Winnipeg wants an NHL franchise, they'll have to either build a bigger arena with the MTS Centre serving as a Cow Palace for a couple of seasons, or Winnipeg fans will have to maintain such a massive NHL hard-on that they'll be willing to pay $85 for the worst seats in the house and sell out the joint 41 times a year.

Why do I get the strange feeling this has all been said before, and some prefer to live in blissful ignorance?

It has.

Here's Exhibit A.

Why stop there?

http://boards.sportslogos.net/index.php?showtopic=49522 :D

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Problem: Someone brings up a topic that you have no interest in.

Solution A: Complain that it has been talked about before and hijack the thread, mocking it all the way through.

Solution B: Ignore it and move on.

How about taking the high road and going with B?

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The Sydney Millionaires would like another crack at the Stanley Cup.

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

Actually, Ron MacLean talked with Gary Bettman about the possibility of the NHL coming to Halifax during this years Allstar game. Halifax is a small community, but I don't think Ron is crazy. I'd love to see the east coast finally represented in big league sports.

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If I was the Commisioner, I would've made the owners of the Jets, Whalers, and Nordiques to leave thee colors, logo, uniforms, and history just like what the NFL did to the Browns. They should a team back before Carolina, Columbus, and Nashville and I'm sorry for the Hockey fan that I may have offended.

Why?

The owners own the teams and are free to do with them what they like.

And yes, the Browns thing was stupid.

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It has.

Here's Exhibit A.

I love it that one of the biggest detractors of a NHL return to Winnipeg on this board is a fan of a team in a "failed" market. I mean the North Stars left the Twin Cities high and dry, but I doubt you were playing the "it didn't work then, it won't work now" card when it started to look like a new St. Paul team was a real possibility.

So why are the Twin Cities, Denver, heck, I'll even through in St. Louis, allowed a second chance at NHL hockey, but Winnipeg isn't?

Yes, they need a bigger arena, but if such an arena were built as part of an expansion or relocation package, why not Winnipeg?

People claim that the city isn't big enough for the team to generate revenue.

What these people fail to understand, or wilfully ignore, is that the city is mad for hockey. Evey home game would be a sellout, or close to it, and the televised games would gather great ratings, not just from Manitoba hockey fans, but from fans of the teams the Jets used to call their rivals.

The fact of the matter is that with the way a team salaries are structured in the new NHL, teams in smaller markets like Winnipeg can survive and flourish. Just look at the NFL. Under their salary structure a team in Green Bay can prosper. The NHL's new salary cap allows for that same kind of small market success.

As far as I can tell, the only thing Winnipeg needs is an arena, and if the city really wanted to be taken seriously as a possible NHL expansion or relocation site I don't see why they wouldn't be up to the task to build one.

What I can't understand is why some people find the thought of NHL hockey in Winnipeg so offencive. I guess some people take that stance just to "stir the pot," but other people are really adamant about the NHL not returning to Winnipeg whenever one of these threads come up, and I'm just carious as to why.

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Offensive? No. Realistic? Also, no.

Why not? The new NHL salary cap system allows for smaller market teams to compete with the big market teams on a level playing field.

The only thing that's holding Winnipeg back is the lack of a big enough arena. Even then, if expansion or relocation is ever brought up again at a high enough level in the NHL, and Winnipeg is given serious thought, I see no reason why the city wouldn't build a bigger arena.

Lets look at one of your teams, the Blues. St. Louis got a second chance at NHL hockey, and it worked out. Why not Winnipeg?

People took St. Louis seriously as an expansion site in the 60's because people realized times were changing, and the reasons why the St. Louis Eagles failed were the problems of the 1930's, not the 1960's.

It's the same deal with with Winnipeg. The problems that faced Winnipeg as a NHL market are the problems of the 90's, not the new post-lockout NHL.

Other then an arena, which can always be built, why not give Winnipeg a second chance? Assume they build a new arena, big enough to match NHL capacity standards, why not give them an other run?

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I would like to see Winnipeg back in the NHL someday, but I'm just tired of people shouting we want the Jets back. I'm tired of the arguments that "well it's not working in Phoenix, Nashville and Atlanta and we deserve to get one back." Hugh McFadyen's "promise" to bring the Jets back as premier really, dare I say, "grinds my gears" <_<

They could have built an arena to keep the team there. They could have built a 17-18 thousand seat arena, but they didn't. They dropped the ball (or puck if you will) more than once.

I'm sick of this "self-pity." Quebec City aren't begging to get a team back aren't they? Unless the NHL is in even worse shape than it is right now, or Manitoba becomes another Alberta economically, or if some owner with deep pockets (say David Asper?) is willing to pay for a team and the construction cost of renovating MTS Centre, then I think the dream of bringing the NHL back to Winnipeg is still just a dream.

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I would like to see Winnipeg back in the NHL someday, but I'm just tired of people shouting we want the Jets back. I'm tired of the arguments that "well it's not working in Phoenix, Nashville and Atlanta and we deserve to get one back." Hugh McFadyen's "promise" to bring the Jets back as premier really, dare I say, "grinds my gears" <_<

They could have built an arena to keep the team there. They could have built a 17-18 thousand seat arena, but they didn't. They dropped the ball (or puck if you will) more than once.

I'm sick of this "self-pity." Quebec City aren't begging to get a team back aren't they? Unless the NHL is in even worse shape than it is right now, or Manitoba becomes another Alberta economically, or if some owner with deep pockets (say David Asper?) is willing to pay for a team and the construction cost of renovating MTS Centre, then I think the dream of bringing the NHL back to Winnipeg is still just a dream.

IMO QC and Winnipeg are apples and oranges.

QC fans had the Habs to root for 52 years before the Nords showed up. Also, the Canadiens were always marketed as French Canada's team, so I would guess that while losing the Nords did hurt, it was softened by the fact that they still had a team that represented them in the Montréal Canadiens.

Who did Winnipeg have before the Jets? No one really. Some probably adopted the Leafs during the years when it seemed like the Leafs represented all of English Canada, but I doubt there was a large, dire-hard Leafs following in the city. Then they got the Jets, a team they could call their own. After 24 years they lose them, with no other team they could really identify with.

Yes, if they built a new stadium when the team was thinking about relocating we wouldn't be having this discussion, but why not give them a second chance? I keep asking that because no one's given me an answer yet.

Why not? If the Twin Cities built a new stadium back in the early 90's the North Stars wouldn't have moved, but Minnesota got a second chance. If fans had supported the Colorado Rockies during their run they wouldn't have bolted for New Jersey, but Denver got a second chance. Both cities have had success after their second chances, so why not give Winnipeg that opportunity?

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I would like to see Winnipeg back in the NHL someday, but I'm just tired of people shouting we want the Jets back. I'm tired of the arguments that "well it's not working in Phoenix, Nashville and Atlanta and we deserve to get one back." Hugh McFadyen's "promise" to bring the Jets back as premier really, dare I say, "grinds my gears" <_<

They could have built an arena to keep the team there. They could have built a 17-18 thousand seat arena, but they didn't. They dropped the ball (or puck if you will) more than once.

I'm sick of this "self-pity." Quebec City aren't begging to get a team back aren't they? Unless the NHL is in even worse shape than it is right now, or Manitoba becomes another Alberta economically, or if some owner with deep pockets (say David Asper?) is willing to pay for a team and the construction cost of renovating MTS Centre, then I think the dream of bringing the NHL back to Winnipeg is still just a dream.

IMO QC and Winnipeg are apples and oranges.

QC fans had the Habs to root for 52 years before the Nords showed up. Also, the Canadiens were always marketed as French Canada's team, so I would guess that while losing the Nords did hurt, it was softened by the fact that they still had a team that represented them in the Montréal Canadiens.

Who did Winnipeg have before the Jets? No one really. Some probably adopted the Leafs during the years when it seemed like the Leafs represented all of English Canada, but I doubt there was a large, dire-hard Leafs following in the city. Then they got the Jets, a team they could call their own. After 24 years they lose them, with no other team they could really identify with.

Yes, if they built a new stadium when the team was thinking about relocating we wouldn't be having this discussion, but why not give them a second chance? I keep asking that because no one's given me an answer yet.

Why not? If the Twin Cities built a new stadium back in the early 90's the North Stars wouldn't have moved, but Minnesota got a second chance. If fans had supported the Colorado Rockies during their run they wouldn't have bolted for New Jersey, but Denver got a second chance. Both cities have had success after their second chances, so why not give Winnipeg that opportunity?

Denver had someone to bring a team back to Denver, Minnesota had someone to bring a team back, so Winnipeg should do the same, if they are serious about this. Winnipeg should find a group people to put together like Calgary and Edmonton, find a team and move them there. Winnipeg should be given the opportunity only when someone (or person) decide to invest their money in this venture. Where are those people? All I hear are fans and politicians begging for an NHL team.

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I would like to see Winnipeg back in the NHL someday, but I'm just tired of people shouting we want the Jets back. I'm tired of the arguments that "well it's not working in Phoenix, Nashville and Atlanta and we deserve to get one back." Hugh McFadyen's "promise" to bring the Jets back as premier really, dare I say, "grinds my gears" <_<

They could have built an arena to keep the team there. They could have built a 17-18 thousand seat arena, but they didn't. They dropped the ball (or puck if you will) more than once.

I'm sick of this "self-pity." Quebec City aren't begging to get a team back aren't they? Unless the NHL is in even worse shape than it is right now, or Manitoba becomes another Alberta economically, or if some owner with deep pockets (say David Asper?) is willing to pay for a team and the construction cost of renovating MTS Centre, then I think the dream of bringing the NHL back to Winnipeg is still just a dream.

IMO QC and Winnipeg are apples and oranges.

QC fans had the Habs to root for 52 years before the Nords showed up. Also, the Canadiens were always marketed as French Canada's team, so I would guess that while losing the Nords did hurt, it was softened by the fact that they still had a team that represented them in the Montréal Canadiens.

Who did Winnipeg have before the Jets? No one really. Some probably adopted the Leafs during the years when it seemed like the Leafs represented all of English Canada, but I doubt there was a large, dire-hard Leafs following in the city. Then they got the Jets, a team they could call their own. After 24 years they lose them, with no other team they could really identify with.

Yes, if they built a new stadium when the team was thinking about relocating we wouldn't be having this discussion, but why not give them a second chance? I keep asking that because no one's given me an answer yet.

Why not? If the Twin Cities built a new stadium back in the early 90's the North Stars wouldn't have moved, but Minnesota got a second chance. If fans had supported the Colorado Rockies during their run they wouldn't have bolted for New Jersey, but Denver got a second chance. Both cities have had success after their second chances, so why not give Winnipeg that opportunity?

Denver had someone to bring a team back to Denver, Minnesota had someone to bring a team back, so Winnipeg should do the same, if they are serious about this. Winnipeg should find a group people to put together like Calgary and Edmonton, find a team and move them there. Winnipeg should be given the opportunity only when someone (or person) decide to invest their money in this venture. Where are those people? All I hear are fans and politicians begging for an NHL team.

I agree with you there, someone needs to step up to plate. I was just carious as to why so many people are against the idea of the NHL returning to Winnipeg in the first place?

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Put the Coyotes back in Winnepeg, Put the Hurricanes back in Hartford, Put the Avs in Quebec, Move the Panthers to Denver to replace the Avs, Move the Blue Jackets to KC

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If there were 30 healthy NHL teams, all of which were making money or breaking even, I'd say there would be zero chance of a return to Winnipeg. But like I said, there are a number of teams in the NHL that are hemorrhaging money with no relief in sight. If Winnipeg ever gets an opportunity, it will be from one of these franchises looking for relief.

Yes, and there are several Metropolitan Areas in the United States possessing larger populations from which to draw fans than Metro Winnipeg enjoys, larger arenas than Winnipeg currently boasts and - some would say, most importantly - more affluent corporate sectors from which to draw big-ticket sponsorships and corporate suite/ticket sales.

The Metropolitan Winnipeg marketplace isn't just smaller than the existing metro markets in the NHL... it is DWARFED by them. Metropolitan Winnipeg is populated by 694,668 people. By comparison, the smallest existing NHL Metro Area marketplace is Buffalo at 1,219,054 people. Metro Buffalo is home to 524,386 more people than Metro Winnipeg... a difference of more than half-a-million people! That doesn't take into consideration the fact that the Buffalo Metro Area is situated adjacent to the Rochester Metropolitan Area and it's 1,128,989 people. Winnipeg doesn't enjoy any such large adjacent metro area from which to draw fans.

Further, where is the corporate base in Winnipeg? Buffalo is a weak market by corporate standards with just a single U.S. Fortune 500 company headquartered in the city - M&T Bank. Rochester - an hour's drive to the East - is home to Global 500 company Eastman Kodak. Not exactly overwhelming, but still ahead of Winnipeg.

Bottom line? Even if the NHL teams that are currently hemorrhaging money decide to relocate, markets such as Houston (5,641,077 people... 6 Fortune Global 500 headquarters... Toyota Center), Portland (2,137,565 people... 4 Fortune 1000 headquarters... Rose Garden Arena) and Kansas City (2,034,796 people... 6 Fortune 1000 headquarters... Sprint Center) offer more potential "bang for the buck" as a modern professional sports market than Winnipeg does.

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There is a lot of mean-spirited and baseless mocking of this thread going on here. I'm really not sure why people are so against Winnipeg having a team back, but whatever.. to each his own.

I believe Winnipeg has a shot at getting NHL hockey back again, albeit a small one. A lot of things would have to fall into place pretty much perfectly for it to happen, but I think it's possible.

For one, there is a non-trivial chance that the Nashville Predators will be moving after next season unless local interest picks up. If that happens, where will they go? Kansas City is the obvious choice, as they need a tenant for the Sprint Center, however if the Supersonics move there first Winnipeg might just have an opening to land them.

I hear a lot of "It's never gonna happen" and "it'll never work in Winnipeg." These people are missing a key point - some teams are hemorrhaging money and the teams in these markets may be looking to move one day. Winnipeg is a city that is hungry for NHL hockey.

I'm not saying that the "Jets" are for sure coming back, but the chances are a lot higher than zero. After all, NHL hockey has flourished in places where it has failed before - Minnesota and Colorado being the best examples. If Kansas City were to get a team, they'd be in a similar situation.

As for the Conservative party of Manitoba making promises - I agree that it is ridiculous. But making promises you don't intend to keep is what politics is all about.

A link to the jetsowner site has been in my sig for a long long time.

The phrase, "Who cares?" comes to mind.

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Yes, if they built a new stadium when the team was thinking about relocating we wouldn't be having this discussion, but why not give them a second chance? I keep asking that because no one's given me an answer yet.

Why not? If the Twin Cities built a new stadium back in the early 90's the North Stars wouldn't have moved, but Minnesota got a second chance. If fans had supported the Colorado Rockies during their run they wouldn't have bolted for New Jersey, but Denver got a second chance. Both cities have had success after their second chances, so why not give Winnipeg that opportunity?

Talk about comparing "apples and oranges". That's precisely what you're doing when you compare the Minneapolis-St. Paul and Denver pro sports marketplaces to Winnipeg.

Here are the reasons that the Minneapolis-St. Paul and Denver Metro Areas received second chances at playing host to NHL franchises while Winnipeg's days as an NHL market are, quite frankly, more than likely over:

Metropolitan Area Population

Minneapolis-St. Paul: 3,502,891 people

Denver: 2,927,911 people

Winnipeg: 694,668 people

Fortune 500 Headquarters

Minneapolis-St. Paul: 7 Fortune Global 500; 12 Fortune U.S. 500

Denver: 1 Fortune Global 500; 12 Fortune U.S. 500

Winnipeg: 0 Fortune Global 500

Arenas

Minneapolis-St. Paul: Xcel Energy center (Opened in 2000... 18,064 capacity)

Denver: McNichols Sports Arena (Opened in 1975... 16,061 capacity) and Pepsi Center (Opened 1999... 18,007 capacity)

Winnipeg: MTS Centre (Opened in 2004... 15,003 capacity)

Bottom line? Compared to Minneapolis-St.Paul and Denver, Winnipeg's market has too small a population, it's arena has too small a capacity and it's corporate environment isn't robust enough.

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The Sydney Millionaires would like another crack at the Stanley Cup.

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

Actually, Ron MacLean talked with Gary Bettman about the possibility of the NHL coming to Halifax during this years Allstar game. Halifax is a small community, but I don't think Ron is crazy. I'd love to see the east coast finally represented in big league sports.

WOW that would be pretty awesome. I live in PEI and I know alot of people who would go to a game. The thing about the east coast is that we have a fan base from almost every team. Lets say the the pens were playing...oh well thats an automatic sellout becuase crosby is from cole harbour. Or Boston...sellout (glen murray). Any canadian team would sellout. Tampa and Dallas would get alot of Islanders because of Brad Richards and Steve Ott. New Jersey (Colin White). Detroit, Montreal, and Calgary would get alot of newfoundlanders because of the ryders and daniel cleary. St. Louis would because of the Al McGiniis connection. I feel like I am rambling on but my point is basicly that Atlantic Canada is not just one city. Its an intire region of over a million people that is always underestimated when it comes to sports. We have been producing great athletes for almost since the beginning of sports and I think now its time that we have a place here for them to continue without going across the country.

"Cat Eyes" - Josh

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