Nashville Predators Being Sold?

[Ez Street]

Acutally I hear that it would be the Kansas City Monarchs.

This explains the cut in payroll all of a sudden. If they aren't very good on the ice they will draw WAY less than 14,000 paid a game. thus can opt out of their lease. Otherwise they'd have to pay $27 Million I believe.

Explains also why Leipold executed the Out clause last week.

[DEAD!]

Acutally I hear that it would be the Kansas City Monarchs.

This explains the cut in payroll all of a sudden. If they aren't very good on the ice they will draw WAY less than 14,000 paid a game. thus can opt out of their lease. Otherwise they'd have to pay $27 Million I believe.

Explains also why Leipold executed the Out clause last week.

Well that would interesting when they play the LA Kings....

... just a thought. The KC Scouts move to Denver to be called the Rockies, then a baseball team there calls themselves the Rockies.... and maybe a Kansas City hockey team will use a nickname of a baseball team?....

...I, personally, prefer the Blades....

[STL FANATIC]

Acutally I hear that it would be the Kansas City Monarchs.

This explains the cut in payroll all of a sudden. If they aren't very good on the ice they will draw WAY less than 14,000 paid a game. thus can opt out of their lease. Otherwise they'd have to pay $27 Million I believe.

Explains also why Leipold executed the Out clause last week.

Actually, that was all still explained under the potential selling to Ballsillie and move to Hamilton, too.

But Nashville still isn't in a position where they'll be bad. They've got plenty of talent remaining.

Also, I still have read enough that calls the $27 million buyout a myth (well...more of a tall tale stemming from a clause that isn't nearly that simple) that I don't believe that was an option in such a simple manner anyways.

Lastly, this is still a long ways from happening. There's no deal right now. Leipold has ended negotiations with Ballsillie and is interested in Del Baggio again. The Nashville group still will present an offer.

Here's hoping they listen to the Nashville group AND that the fans manage their 14,000. Keep the Preds in Nashville.

(See IceCap...this has absolutely nothing to do with Canada. I'd love a team in KC. And I'd like another team in Canada. And in both cases I'd consider the new markets gambles for the long term; but I'd be in favor of expansion to both. But Nashville shouldn't be robbed of their franchise. Not when they're still on a growing track for sure.)

[Ez Street]

An existing team will be better in the long run for KC than an expansion team.

But I would hate to see the Preds go. It would suck. they do have some great fans there. Very passionate.

[BRUINSFAN]

Report: Leipold won't sell to Balsillie

TSN.ca Staff

6/28/2007 11:23:14 AM

Jim Balsillie's bid to purchase the Nashville Predators and relocate them to Southern Ontario appears unlikely now that current Predators owner Craig Leipold has found a new buyer.

According to the National Post, Leipold informed Balsillie earlier this week that he would not accept his $238-million US offer for the NHL club. Instead, Leipold is preparing to sell the franchise to California businessman William DelBiaggio, who is expected to move the team to Kansas City instead.

DelBiaggio's bid is reportedly $50-million US less than what Balsillie was offering for the club.

Balsillie's deal to purchase the Predators was set to close on June 30.

"We are currently free to explore any and all options regarding the sale of the Nashville Predators," Gerry Helper, Nashville's senior vice-president of communications and development, said in a statement. "However, until and unless there is a binding agreement in place, we do not plan to comment on the status of Predators ownership.

"We will not comment on rumours and speculation."

The NHL, which called Balsillie's plans to relocate the team to Southern Ontario "premature", also declined to comment.

Despite the fact he doesn't yet own the team, Balsillie recently signed an option for a 20-year lease on Copps Coliseum in Hamilton and began accepting desposits for season tickets and suites.

Kansas City, which recently built a brand new downtown arena, has been searching for a permanent tenant and recently made a pitch to try and lure the Pittsburgh Penguins to Missouri. The arena is managed by Anschutz Entertainment Group, which is owned by L.A. Kings owner Philip Anschutz.

DelBiaggio has an agreement with the Anschutz Group to own and operate an NHL franchise in the new arena.

[Sbufkle]

I dont think Balsillie expected NHL to let this go through. Hes a smart guy and after Pitt fell through I think he set this up for an eventual legal deal where its clear to me (IMHO) that the NHL will get nailed for collusion.

He offered crazy money for a franchise arguably worth half of what he offered.

He showed by pre sales he could outdraw its ucrrent occupant

He was brash in the face of the NHL annoucning team would move, setting up lease at rink ect ect.

I have read in several places hes already got lawyers cotnacting US and Can groups about Anti trust and Competition Committee hearings in the works.

The way Basillie went totally agaisnt the NHL in his proposition and dealing with Hamilton so out in the open can only spell one thing, that he knew the NHL and its owners would not let this go through. Basillie is an amazingly smart businessman. When he paid out 500 million to settle Blackberry legal issues over patents many thought hed pay over a BILLION and considering the financial windfall RIM has had with the BB it was a steal fo a settlement in RIMS favour. No sir, he didnt fall off the turnip truck yesterday.

Its clear where this is going, and to me (remembering the fiasco the MLB owners got themselves in the early 80s colluding with each other to bring down the free agent market and the major slap they got hit with) that there is not only NHL/Owners collusion but the lot of them fell into Basillies trap hook, line and sinker. The NHL will lose thier case and Basillie and anyone else would probably more easily buy and move an NHL team in a much better fashion it does now. I think for the better of the NHL incidentally.

I for one welcome a team in Hamilton because Basillie has proved hes an onwer who will back it, and had the NHL blinked and allowed the sale (As I belive contrary to how Basillie thought it would go) he DID prove he could do better off in Hamilton than Nashville.

I also think the NHL failing in KC before should proved NOT have been its targetted alternative for Hamilton relocation, more fuel for Basillies fire....

[otherwilds]

the news from nashville...

Report: Leipold set to sell Preds to Del Biaggio

California-based businessman William "Boots" Del Biaggio III responded to reports out of Canada today that Predators owner Craig Leipold is preparing to sell the NHL team to him instead of Canadian billionaire Jim Balsillie.

"I don't want to officially comment because there's a long way to go," Del Biaggio told The Kanas City Star. "I don't want to get caught up in all this like Balsillie did, and what happened to me in Pittsburgh."

....

Del Biaggio is currently a minority partner with the San Jose Sharks.

"If Jim Balsillie falls out, I'm sure Craig is going to look at all his options," Del Biaggio said. "I think it's all speculation right now. The reality is it's going to be a process."

A group of Nashvillians spearheaded by a pair of health-care executives, Herb Fritch and David Freeman, is attempting to put together a bid for the Predators as well.

[STL FANATIC]

I also think the NHL failing in KC before should proved NOT have been its targetted alternative for Hamilton relocation, more fuel for Basillies fire....

Ya know the NHL failed in Hamilton once before, too, right?

Fact is, what happened that many years ago doesn't matter.

I'm not saying there's not a case. But that fact won't be a part of it.

[Ez Street]

I also think the NHL failing in KC before should proved NOT have been its targetted alternative for Hamilton relocation, more fuel for Basillies fire....

I don't understand what you are saying.

but if you mean KC shouldn't get a team because of a poorly run franchise from the 70's, you need to re-examine things.

We've been down that road before.

[jkrdevil]

Here's a column from YSN's Bob McKenzie who had a great take of this situation. Here are some excerpts:

But let me ask you this question: If you were Bettman, what would you do when faced with the following scenario?

You have a franchise in Nashville that has shown signs of not being long-term viable but it is not so destitute that it is an absolute foregone conclusion it can't stay there and, more importantly, there are potential legal roadblocks to re-locating the franchise in the short term.

You have a potential owner who wants to yank the team out of there no matter what and ignore all NHL rules and by-laws on the issue of relocation and territorial rights and has effectively declared war on the way the NHL does business.

If you are Bettman, what do you do?

Well, the short answer is you don't make it easy for someone to turn the rules of your league upside down and potentially leave a market with legal issues in the wake. You follow the process. You follow the protocol. To the letter of the law. Each and every rule.

This won't win me many friends north of the border, but this seems to me a lot less about Canada vs. the U.S. and a lot more about the process and who controls what happens in the NHL.

Legal beagle Bettman is nothing if not a slave to process. I don't know that I've ever met a more by-the-book, follow-the-rules kind of guy. He was that way when franchise issues popped up in Edmonton, Ottawa and Buffalo, amongst others, and he is the kind of guy who plays it by the book, which is pretty much the exact opposite of Balsillie.

Now, if Bettman rolls over and plays dead on the process to allow Del Biaggio to easily skate out of Nashville and into Kansas City, I will lead the charge to condemn him. And he will deserve every bit of wrath that comes flying at him from Canada.

But nothing I have seen from Bettman in his time at the league suggests to me he's going to tell Del Biaggio he's free and clear to move the team to K.C., that the Preds aren't going anywhere until whatever obligations are exhausted in Nashville. I don't think the league is crazed about getting into the Kansas City marketplace and certainly not at the expense of following the protocol in Nashville, but I guess we'll find out soon enough whether I'm naive or not

For what it's worth, I personally would like to see another NHL franchise in Canada, specifically southern Ontario. I think it's a can't miss proposition, a far better bet than a dozen U.S.-based NHL cities that already have franchises or a bunch (Kansas City, Las Vegas et al) that don't.

But I'm not sure it should be in Hamilton because I think it could have a negative impact on the Buffalo Sabres and as much as I like to wave the flag, I'm not sure a second team in southern Ontario should come at the potential expense of a small-market, American franchise that has battled hard to survive over the least 37 years.

http://www.tsn.ca/tsn_talent/columnists/bo...nzie/?ID=212132

[broncoempire]

Ok you hypocrite-a$$ BOG, tell us all why this is an acceptable sale. Why is it that a team can't be sold to a prospective owner who is willing to throw around crazy money and raise the value of everyone else to a market that would probably do extremely well, and it is ok to sell the team to a prospective buyer who will also move the team, but to a slightly more marketable location to American television executives? American television executives, who mind you, pay absolutely nothing (not counting the incestuous realtionship between Comcast-Spectacor/Versus/Snyder and the league), to televise the league and show disdain for the very product they choose to televise.

What about all the Save the Predators crap that we heard for the last few weeks and the local business community coming together to try and put some money into the team? What about the big ticket drive to make sure the team met the needed number to ensure the lease could not be broken? What happened to Nashville being an integral part of the dreaded strategy of "growing the game".

I understand Balsillie was rather brash and bold in his attempts to upset league precedents and get his way, but lord knows the league needs a guy like him to give all of them a swift kick in the rear. Truth of the matter is, every league needs a Mark Cuban to upset the old guard and bring the new generation into the game and into the present and future. Would we rather have 5 more Mark Cubans or Jim Balsillies, or 5 more Bill Wirtzs, honestly? It's as if the NHL keeps cutting off their nose to spite themselves again and again.

I have nothing against Kansas City and its people. I have been there many times and loved it every time. It's warm and friendly and they love sports like true fans. But this is not like the NFL desperately needing to figure out a way to move a team back to Los Angeles, it's Kansas City! There may be an insatiable appetite for hockey there, I really don't know. This smacks more of an WHA move than a smart one, "ooh, there's a city with a new arena out there, lets jam a team there so someone doesn't beat us to it!" (again, apologies to KC, nothing personal) And to think they are trying to get a guy like Jerry Bruckheimer to flush $300 million on a team for Las Vegas, the absurdity.

This is a game that I have loved since a boy and it tears me up to see it ruined in the manner that it has been the last few years. It is just terrible to see this kinda stuff go on and no one really ever calls them on it. Sorry to vent all, I've just had to get this off my chest. I'm sure there are plenty of fans out there who may see things this way too.

[Ez Street]

Kansas City promised NHL team, sources say

BACKED OFF PENGUINS; Predators' pursuer earned spot in line for a franchise

Matthew Sekeres, National Post

Published: Friday, June 29, 2007

The National Hockey League was prepared to deliver a team to William (Boots) Del Biaggio and Kansas City's Sprint Center as part of a plan to keep the Penguins in Pittsburgh, sources told the National Post yesterday.

Del Biaggio, now the frontrunner to purchase and relocate the Nashville Predators, and Tim Leiweke, president of Anschutz Entertainment Group (AEG), the company that operates the Sprint Center, aggressively pursued the Penguins late last year, offering the team a rent-free lease in the new arena.

But sources said the league, which didn't want to lose a value market in Pittsburgh, asked the Kansas City investors to back off their chase of the Penguins while indicating to the group it would be next in line for an NHL franchise.

It is believed the commissioner and Leiweke, who was in England yesterday, had an informal arrangement that would have delivered the Predators to Del Biaggio and Kansas City had Canadian billionaire Jim Balsillie not stepped in with a richer offer and plans to move the team to Hamilton. Del Biaggio has an agreement with AEG to own and operate an NHL team in the Sprint Center.

Yesterday, the Post reported that Balsillie's US$238-million deal to buy the Nashville franchise from Wisconsin businessman Craig Leipold was off and that the Predators owner was expected to sign a binding, exclusive deal with Del Biaggio, who earlier had claimed he was no longer pursuing the Predators.

"I don't want to officially comment because there's a long way to go," Del Biaggio told the Kansas City Star yesterday. "I don't want to get caught up in all this like Balsillie did, and [after] what happened to me in Pittsburgh.

"If Jim Balsillie falls out, I'm sure Craig is going to look at all his options. I think it's all speculation right now. The reality is it's going to be a process."

Del Biaggio, a minority investor in the San Jose Sharks, has made two runs at the Penguins, the first in 2005 and the second last fall when Balsillie was also in the bidding.

The first attempt was scuttled when the Penguins won the draft lottery and the right to select Sidney Crosby, which prompted owner Mario Lemieux to take the team off the market.

The latter attempt only failed because Pennsylvania lawmakers struck a deal with a Detroit-based casino to finance construction of a new arena, which the Penguins claimed they needed to remain in Pittsburgh.

Still, the Kansas City effort -- AEG was offering free rent and a 50% share of the management agreement for the Sprint Center --left commissioner Gary Bettman impressed.

"Kansas City put itself on the map as an attractive, viable place for a future franchise, be it the NHL or NBA," Bettman told The Star in March. "I can't speak for the NBA, but no doubt if we were considering a relocation or expansion ? we would have to consider Kansas City."

In dismissing Balsillie's bid for Del Biaggio's -- and apparently choosing Kansas City over Hamilton -- Leipold might have cost himself about US$50-million. The Nashvile owner has reportedly lost US$70-million on the Predators in 10 years.

One source suggested yesterday that Leipold might be willing to take the reduced price because he believes Del Biaggio's purchase can be processed more quickly than a deal with Balsillie, and that time could save him from covering the club's operating losses this season.

"We are currently free to explore any and all options regarding the sale of the Nashville Predators," a club spokesman said in a deal yesterday. " However, until and unless there's a binding agreement in place, we don't plan to comment on the status of the Predators' ownership.

Another questions surrounds the NHL governors, who must approve sales and relocation requests, and how they feel about the Predators' dropping price tag. Balsillie's US$238-million bid would inflate the value of every other team, and clubs might also be in line to have their credit lines increased because bank appraisals take the most recent sales prices into account.

[Sbufkle]

Ya know the NHL failed in Hamilton once before, too, right?

The NHL didnt fail in Hamilton, it was a strange and contreversal tale. Bill Dwyer wanted a team in NY and bought the rights of the players for what was considered a great sum of 75K. The team 'folded' after finishing first place in 24/25, this after 4 season of bad hockey mind you

The players on the team had a dispute with mangement about playoff pay in 24/25, and when players refused to play a playoff game, the league booted them out of playoffs. From there Dwyer, who had bought an NHL expeansion team made a back room deal with both the NHL and the Hamilton owner and then bought the players rights.

The fact is with thier play in that last season they had done well at the gate, so the teams viability in Hamiton was good and they were poised to build a new rink. But in what woudlnt be the last money grab by an NHL team Owner, Hamiltons owner sold to Dwyer. It had nothign to do with fan support, which in Hamilton was good.

The KC Scouts had bad attendance and little financial support from local sponsors int he 70's, thier attendence so bad its the most relavant thing here.. consdier thier expansion cousins Washington who didnt make the playoffs for many years after they started.. but still sold more tickets than KC. In a modern day NHL where the NHL gives away its TV rights for nothing and competitive poker outdraws the NHL on broadcast ratings, (Not to mention even the over expanded NBA has no interest in KC) why should the second time in KC change anything?

but if you mean KC shouldn't get a team because of a poorly run franchise from the 70's, you need to re-examine things.

They were no more poorly run than many other franchises of that era. Please enlighten me with examples of how they were run so bad? Say worse than the Boston Bruins and thier tenure under Jeremy Jacobs, or Bill Wirtz in Chicago?

The Scouts sold only 2000 season tickets in a drive during year 2.... the fans spoke... the people of KC rejected the NHL, the people of Hamilton didnt...

Facts

Straight

Gityer

[leedsunited]

So let me get this straight:

Leipold is gonna take a cut rate for the team, and they're STILL MOVING.

It's KC, so that's ok?

Nice. At least with Balsillie's price, that would have raised the bar for future NHL franchise values. But Bettman clearly has his head up his keister on this one. Who the heck knows what kind of promises he made to KC when it came to the Penguins.

[Ez Street]

I think Leipold knows the BoG won't approve Balsille due to his blatant defiance of NHL guidlines. Instead of waiting for Balsillie and the long term financial loss while he waits for him to be approved, he will be going with DelBaggio who is already a minority owner in the NHL.

[jkrdevil]

Ok you hypocrite-a$$ BOG, tell us all why this is an acceptable sale. Why is it that a team can't be sold to a prospective owner who is willing to throw around crazy money and raise the value of everyone else to a market that would probably do extremely well, and it is ok to sell the team to a prospective buyer who will also move the team, but to a slightly more marketable location to American television executives? American television executives, who mind you, pay absolutely nothing (not counting the incestuous realtionship between Comcast-Spectacor/Versus/Snyder and the league), to televise the league and show disdain for the very product they choose to televise.

First off the team was never sold. Jim Balsillie refused to enter into a binding agreement which then would constitute a sale. Part of it was because he wanted the league to change it's procedures and buy laws on the matter of relocation and only then would he enter in a binding agreement. The NHL is obvously not going to change it's rules and procedures for him because if they do and approve everything it opens up a lawsuit from the city of Nashville. Balsillie wouldn't enter in a binding agreement and thus Liepold must have felt he was never going to see that money and thus has come to an agreement with Del Biaggio.

What about all the Save the Predators crap that we heard for the last few weeks and the local business community coming together to try and put some money into the team? What about the big ticket drive to make sure the team met the needed number to ensure the lease could not be broken? What happened to Nashville being an integral part of the dreaded strategy of "growing the game".

Nothing has changed their if they reach an average of 14,000 the team is locked into their lease for another 7 years and can't be move. In the Tennessan Del Biaggo admitted there is a strong possibility that the team will reach it's goals and lock them in the lease.

I understand Balsillie was rather brash and bold in his attempts to upset league precedents and get his way, but lord knows the league needs a guy like him to give all of them a swift kick in the rear. Truth of the matter is, every league needs a Mark Cuban to upset the old guard and bring the new generation into the game and into the present and future. Would we rather have 5 more Mark Cubans or Jim Balsillies, or 5 more Bill Wirtzs, honestly? It's as if the NHL keeps cutting off their nose to spite themselves again and again.

Balsillie is more Al Davis than Mark Cuban. For all of Cuban's antics he still works within the league rules and procedures. There is a difference between complaining about officials and trying to move a team into 2 other teams territory while ignoring league rules and procedures and possible getting the government involve to force ones way in without paying territorial fees.

I have nothing against Kansas City and its people. I have been there many times and loved it every time. It's warm and friendly and they love sports like true fans. But this is not like the NFL desperately needing to figure out a way to move a team back to Los Angeles, it's Kansas City! There may be an insatiable appetite for hockey there, I really don't know. This smacks more of an WHA move than a smart one, "ooh, there's a city with a new arena out there, lets jam a team there so someone doesn't beat us to it!" (again, apologies to KC, nothing personal) And to think they are trying to get a guy like Jerry Bruckheimer to flush $300 million on a team for Las Vegas, the absurdity.

For what it is worth I believe KC has had the highest ratings for the NHL than in other non-NHL city. As for Bruckheimer he strikes me as a potential owner who is more Mark Cuban than Jim Balsillie is. Like Cuban he is a strong marketer and promoter.

As for the report that KC was promised a franchise I'm going to chalk that up to a Canadian media snow job because the Ballsillie deal fell through which if a team would have moved to Hamilton would have benefited them financially. I wonder how many other cities were promised franchises throughout the years? It means little. I seriously doubt the league will change it's procedures to ensure they get into Kansas City as again it would open up for the possibilities of lawsuits. So if the team reaches it's goals they stay and the league won't let Del Biaggio buy his way out. Going back to the "promise" remember the league was discussing possible expansion a few weeks ago and that would have been and still would be a way of giving KC a team if Nashville stays.

[rams80]

Ya know the NHL failed in Hamilton once before, too, right?

The NHL didnt fail in Hamilton, it was a strange and contreversal tale. Bill Dwyer wanted a team in NY and bought the rights of the players for what was considered a great sum of 75K. The team 'folded' after finishing first place in 24/25, this after 4 season of bad hockey mind you

The players on the team had a dispute with mangement about playoff pay in 24/25, and when players refused to play a playoff game, the league booted them out of playoffs. From there Dwyer, who had bought an NHL expeansion team made a back room deal with both the NHL and the Hamilton owner and then bought the players rights.

The fact is with thier play in that last season they had done well at the gate, so the teams viability in Hamiton was good and they were poised to build a new rink. But in what woudlnt be the last money grab by an NHL team Owner, Hamiltons owner sold to Dwyer. It had nothign to do with fan support, which in Hamilton was good.

The KC Scouts had bad attendance and little financial support from local sponsors int he 70's, thier attendence so bad its the most relavant thing here.. consdier thier expansion cousins Washington who didnt make the playoffs for many years after they started.. but still sold more tickets than KC. In a modern day NHL where the NHL gives away its TV rights for nothing and competitive poker outdraws the NHL on broadcast ratings, (Not to mention even the over expanded NBA has no interest in KC) why should the second time in KC change anything?

but if you mean KC shouldn't get a team because of a poorly run franchise from the 70's, you need to re-examine things.

They were no more poorly run than many other franchises of that era. Please enlighten me with examples of how they were run so bad? Say worse than the Boston Bruins and thier tenure under Jeremy Jacobs, or Bill Wirtz in Chicago?

The Scouts sold only 2000 season tickets in a drive during year 2.... the fans spoke... the people of KC rejected the NHL, the people of Hamilton didnt...

Facts

Straight

Gityer

Here's a fact. The Kansas City Scouts fiasco was thirty years ago in a much more adverse economic and competitive situation. Things change. To compare then with now is an argument riddled with fallacy. The team may indeed fail, but not because of what happened in the 1970s. Different ownership and different circumstances.

The "durr, a team failed there 30+ years ago, so they can't have another" line would also have deprived us of the St. Louis Blues, Philadelphia Flyers, and Pittsburgh Penguins. Those are 3 of the NHL's stronger franchises, and have certainly proved themselves as markets since then.

Brian in Boston does make an interesting point which I have thought of as well. Most of the NHL's Sun Belt teams do appear to be experiencing some degree of success, (or at least, are not all complete disasters). The general track record that indicates would suggest that the NHL should try to move the Predators to another United States market, because of the greater upside there and the decent track record.

JMHO, but if Balisillie ever did get a franchise, he and his team would most likely become a pariah team with the rest of the league, and most likely struggle on the ice. My advice to him (if he could go back in time) would be to try to get the WHA 2.0 off the ground and playing during the lockout season. That might have been his best shot at getting major league hockey in Hamilton.

[IceCap]

I also think the NHL failing in KC before should proved NOT have been its targetted alternative for Hamilton relocation, more fuel for Basillies fire....

Ya know the NHL failed in Hamilton once before, too, right?

Fact is, what happened that many years ago doesn't matter.

I'm not saying there's not a case. But that fact won't be a part of it.

The Hamilton Tigers moved out of Hamilton in 1925. If that's the best you can come up with for keeping the an other team out of Canada than you can kiss your Blues goodbye, because the Eagles obviously proved NHL hockey in St. Louis isn't feasible

See how stupid the "dur....teh Tigerz left, so Hamilton is teh sux!11!1!1one" argument is? If we used your line of reasoning the Blues would have no business playing in St. Louis.

[IceCap]

Ya know the NHL failed in Hamilton once before, too, right?

The NHL didnt fail in Hamilton, it was a strange and contreversal tale. Bill Dwyer wanted a team in NY and bought the rights of the players for what was considered a great sum of 75K. The team 'folded' after finishing first place in 24/25, this after 4 season of bad hockey mind you

The players on the team had a dispute with mangement about playoff pay in 24/25, and when players refused to play a playoff game, the league booted them out of playoffs. From there Dwyer, who had bought an NHL expeansion team made a back room deal with both the NHL and the Hamilton owner and then bought the players rights.

The fact is with thier play in that last season they had done well at the gate, so the teams viability in Hamiton was good and they were poised to build a new rink. But in what woudlnt be the last money grab by an NHL team Owner, Hamiltons owner sold to Dwyer. It had nothign to do with fan support, which in Hamilton was good.

The KC Scouts had bad attendance and little financial support from local sponsors int he 70's, thier attendence so bad its the most relavant thing here.. consdier thier expansion cousins Washington who didnt make the playoffs for many years after they started.. but still sold more tickets than KC. In a modern day NHL where the NHL gives away its TV rights for nothing and competitive poker outdraws the NHL on broadcast ratings, (Not to mention even the over expanded NBA has no interest in KC) why should the second time in KC change anything?

but if you mean KC shouldn't get a team because of a poorly run franchise from the 70's, you need to re-examine things.

They were no more poorly run than many other franchises of that era. Please enlighten me with examples of how they were run so bad? Say worse than the Boston Bruins and thier tenure under Jeremy Jacobs, or Bill Wirtz in Chicago?

The Scouts sold only 2000 season tickets in a drive during year 2.... the fans spoke... the people of KC rejected the NHL, the people of Hamilton didnt...

Facts

Straight

Gityer

Here's a fact. The Kansas City Scouts fiasco was thirty years ago in a much more adverse economic and competitive situation. Things change. To compare then with now is an argument riddled with fallacy. The team may indeed fail, but not because of what happened in the 1970s. Different ownership and different circumstances.

The "durr, a team failed there 30+ years ago, so they can't have another" line would also have deprived us of the St. Louis Blues, Philadelphia Flyers, and Pittsburgh Penguins. Those are 3 of the NHL's stronger franchises, and have certainly proved themselves as markets since then.

Yep, the Scouts failing 30 years ago shouldn't discount KC as a NHL market. I believe that the NHL in KC can work, and if KC is the best chance the Preds have of getting out of Nashville I say go for it. Hamilton would be a better choice then KC, IMO, but KC would at least provide the team with the fresh start it needs after failing in Nashville.

Just as the Scouts' failure during the 70's shouldn't count against KC, the Tigers' "failure" during the mid 1920's shouldn't count against Hamilton.

Brian in Boston does make an interesting point which I have thought of as well. Most of the NHL's Sun Belt teams do appear to be experiencing some degree of success, (or at least, are not all complete disasters). The general track record that indicates would suggest that the NHL should try to move the Predators to another United States market, because of the greater upside there and the decent track record.

WTF? A greater upside? Stick a team in Canada and they'll sell out each and every game, and you know that as much as I do. This "lets support every NHL team in the south to PWN the Canadians!" act is getting old.

A team in Hamilton is a sure thing, moving the Preds from a failed gamble to an other gamble isn't the best decision, but at least it's better then staying in their current market.

In all the successful sun belt markets teams were able to sell out games during "hot streaks" during their lean years. During '96 when the Lightning made the playoffs for the first time, 2002 when the 'Canes had their Cup run. These flashes of brilliance after years of futility drew in fans, proving that there was hope for these markets. During similar hot streaks, and a season where they were among the NHL's elite, the Preds still couldn't draw in Nashville. The market doesn't care. It just doesn't. We didn't need to wait the standard 10-15 years to see if Nashville was a success or failure. After eight seasons it's clear Nashville doesn't cut it as an NHL market. Move the team somewhere where the team will be appreciated.

JMHO, but if Balisillie ever did get a franchise, he and his team would most likely become a pariah team with the rest of the league, and most likely struggle on the ice. My advice to him (if he could go back in time) would be to try to get the WHA 2.0 off the ground and playing during the lockout season. That might have been his best shot at getting major league hockey in Hamilton.

So Jim Balsillie should get his hands on a time machine?

Seriously, Jim Balsille with a team in Hamilton will benefit the NHL. We love hockey, we'll support hockey, much more so then some American markets.

What are you basing your assumption that the team will struggle on the ice? Other then pessimism fuelled by an already proven ignorance of the Golden Horseshoe?

What burns me about this is that the NHL, Gary Bettman in particular, doesn't seem bothered by this potential move to KC. If that doesn't tell you what the NHL thinks of its country of birth, then you're a lost cause.

[STL FANATIC]

I also think the NHL failing in KC before should proved NOT have been its targetted alternative for Hamilton relocation, more fuel for Basillies fire....

Ya know the NHL failed in Hamilton once before, too, right?

Fact is, what happened that many years ago doesn't matter.

I'm not saying there's not a case. But that fact won't be a part of it.

The Hamilton Tigers moved out of Hamilton in 1925. If that's the best you can come up with for keeping the an other team out of Canada than you can kiss your Blues goodbye, because the Eagles obviously proved NHL hockey in St. Louis isn't feasible

See how stupid the "dur....teh Tigerz left, so Hamilton is teh sux!11!1!1one" argument is? If we used your line of reasoning the Blues would have no business playing in St. Louis.

You missed it IceCap...

We're making the same point.

This guy said that because KC failed 30+ years ago that should knock them down on the list of places to get a new franchise.

I was trying to make the point that what happened years ago doesn't matter, noting that Hamilton also once had and lost a team. I certainly wasn't saying that because Hamilton lost a team in the 1920s they shouldn't have one now.

Whatever reasons these cities lost their teams for (fans, poor owners, distance from other existing teams) is simply irrelevant. It was long ago and all the cities and circumstances are different now.

I think your defensive (or maybe offensive depending) stance got the better of you here. The passion is fine, but read a little closer.

Like I said, we were making the same point.

What burns me about this is that the NHL, Gary Bettman in particular, doesn't seem bothered by this potential move to KC. If that doesn't tell you what the NHL thinks of its country of birth, then you're a lost cause.

Right now that's because they aren't anywhere near as close to moving to KC as they were to Hamilton (which in actuality wasn't all that close to begin with).

When "Boots" signs a Letter of Intent with Leiopold and starts working behind the scenes on KC Predators things ignoring NHL protocol and the NHL doesn't shoot down the rumors and re-affirm the current lease Nashville has, then you can start saying that the NHL doesn't seemed bothered by it.

But at this point they have nothing to be bothered by. It's rumored that Leiopold wants to sell to Del Baggio, and Del Baggio has been upfront about wanting to put a team in KC but has also been clear that he understands that Nashville may be locked into a lease for 7 years.

There's no threat there and nothing to respond to.