Nashville Predators Being Sold?

[Lee.]

If they do end up playing within the Cambridge city limits I wonder what they'll call themselves. They would be outside of Kitchener-Waterloo, and Cambridge doesn't have the marketability value. Tri-City maybe?

Ontario

Thunder Bay.

[Milo Meningocele]

There was a pretty funny segment on the local sports radio station today about the (completely tongue-in-cheek) prospects of the Preds moving to Windsor and being called the Windsor Ballet.

(Heck, if in some alternate universe the NHL in Windsor was a possibility, I honestly think Windsor Ambassadors is a perfect name. I think a really nice logo could be made using the bridge somehow.)

[-Helix-]

Any reason why Milwaukee has never been bandied about as a potential destination for an NHL franchise? Arena issues? I would have thought that the region would have made it a natural choice.

How's support for Badger hockey?

I think the arena is the major factor, along with concerns that, as a smaller city, it couldn't support a fourth major league team. It would, IIRC, be the smallest city to have all four.

The Bradley Center (where the Bucks play) was built with private money by a philanthropic family that owned the Admirals. They publicly talked about using it to lure an NHL franchise at the time.

Now, I think it's probably too old. Shame, too - the Milwaukee Admirals would be playing in their fifth league.

Admirals have never had very good support either which doesn't help Milwaukee's case. I remember watching the AHL finals in a practically empty Bradley Center a few years ago. Not that any prospective owners were lined up to bring a team there anyway.

[OMMF]

Not to start another semantics debate but I would hardly consider the Packers to be a Milwaukee team. It would be more accurate to say, perhaps, that Wisconsin isn't a 4-team state.

Corvus, I'll jump in before any of the 503 and 541 residents do. Winter Hawks is two words.

[NJTank]

Well the Packers played a few games a year in Milwaukee until 1994.

[illwauk]

Any reason why Milwaukee has never been bandied about as a potential destination for an NHL franchise? Arena issues? I would have thought that the region would have made it a natural choice.

How's support for Badger hockey?

I think the arena is the major factor, along with concerns that, as a smaller city, it couldn't support a fourth major league team. It would, IIRC, be the smallest city to have all four.

The Bradley Center (where the Bucks play) was built with private money by a philanthropic family that owned the Admirals. They publicly talked about using it to lure an NHL franchise at the time.

Now, I think it's probably too old. Shame, too - the Milwaukee Admirals would be playing in their fifth league.

Admirals have never had very good support either which doesn't help Milwaukee's case. I remember watching the AHL finals in a practically empty Bradley Center a few years ago. Not that any prospective owners were lined up to bring a team there anyway.

Actually, the Admirals had great support during the IHL days. During the lockout they either cracked the 10,000 barrier a few times or at least got close to it (too lazy to actually look it up). Some of their games were even on local TV. All of the former IHL teams' attendance sank like a rock upon arrival in the AHL and it's been discussed often at this board how inept the "A" is when it comes to marketing itself.

[illwauk]

Not to start another semantics debate but I would hardly consider the Packers to be a Milwaukee team. It would be more accurate to say, perhaps, that Wisconsin isn't a 4-team state.

Well there's more Packers fans in Milwaukee than there are people in Green Bay. And the Packers flagship newspaper (Journal-Sentinel) and radio station (WTMJ) are both based in Milwaukee.

There's no doubt in my mind that an NHL team in Milwaukee could work if marketed as a "Wisconsin" team. It also wouldn't hurt if they could play, say, 5 games per year at the Kohl Center in Madison and an exhibition schedule in Green Bay.

[Sodboy13]

Actually, the Admirals had great support during the IHL days. During the lockout they either cracked the 10,000 barrier a few times or at least got close to it (too lazy to actually look it up). Some of their games were even on local TV. All of the former IHL teams' attendance sank like a rock upon arrival in the AHL and it's been discussed often at this board how inept the "A" is when it comes to marketing itself.

Exactly. Since the absorption of the IHL by the AHL, minor league hockey attendance has been in a marked, steady decline. Personally, I think the heavily imbalanced schedule - playing your divisional opponents 10 times each, so you see 6 teams for 3/4 of the season in a 28-team league - doesn't help matters. As my girlfriend said a while back, "Do the Wolves ever play anyone besides the Aeros?"

It's amazing to think that as little as 8 years ago, the Wolves were drawing over 9,000 a game, the Admirals over 8,000, and the Detroit Vipers were putting 12,000 in the seats nightly at the Palace of Auburn Hills

But hey, if the AHL could have its way, they'd be a 30-team bus league based out of the Northeast playing in 4,000-5,000 seat arenas.

[rams80]

I always wondered that too. It's in the north, so it's relevent. I also always thought about Seattle or Portland, or are they just too close to Vancouver... as far as hockey is concerned?

Portland certainly isn't. And its a 2-3 hour drive from Seattle to Vancouver, and thats *if* the border isn't a complete nightmare. Both Portland and Seattle have long standing WHL traditions with the Winterhawks and Thunderbirds, but I have no idea what that support is like. I'm also not sure how a team in Seattle would do, with the NFL, MLB, NBA and college sports to compete with.

As a Canucks fan, I would love a team in Seattle, so that we have a relatively local rival, and a somewhat reduced travel schedule.

However, I look forward to the inaugural 2008-2009 season of the KW Blackberries.

I believe that Key Arena's NHL incompatibility would be the biggest hump to overcome in Seattle.

[Brendan]

I always wondered that too. It's in the north, so it's relevent. I also always thought about Seattle or Portland, or are they just too close to Vancouver... as far as hockey is concerned?

Portland certainly isn't. And its a 2-3 hour drive from Seattle to Vancouver, and thats *if* the border isn't a complete nightmare. Both Portland and Seattle have long standing WHL traditions with the Winterhawks and Thunderbirds, but I have no idea what that support is like. I'm also not sure how a team in Seattle would do, with the NFL, MLB, NBA and college sports to compete with.

As a Canucks fan, I would love a team in Seattle, so that we have a relatively local rival, and a somewhat reduced travel schedule.

However, I look forward to the inaugural 2008-2009 season of the KW Blackberries.

I believe that Key Arena's NHL incompatibility would be the biggest hump to overcome in Seattle.

I remember hearing that the Sonics owner wanted to bring a NHL team to Seattle if a arena was built. It was proboly just a ploy to get a arena funded. Anyways back to topic I would love a new team in Canada but if the Preds were to move to south ontario would they stay in the west?

[rams80]

I always wondered that too. It's in the north, so it's relevent. I also always thought about Seattle or Portland, or are they just too close to Vancouver... as far as hockey is concerned?

Portland certainly isn't. And its a 2-3 hour drive from Seattle to Vancouver, and thats *if* the border isn't a complete nightmare. Both Portland and Seattle have long standing WHL traditions with the Winterhawks and Thunderbirds, but I have no idea what that support is like. I'm also not sure how a team in Seattle would do, with the NFL, MLB, NBA and college sports to compete with.

As a Canucks fan, I would love a team in Seattle, so that we have a relatively local rival, and a somewhat reduced travel schedule.

However, I look forward to the inaugural 2008-2009 season of the KW Blackberries.

I believe that Key Arena's NHL incompatibility would be the biggest hump to overcome in Seattle.

I remember hearing that the Sonics owner wanted to bring a NHL team to Seattle if a arena was built. It was proboly just a ploy to get a arena funded.

Give the boy a cookie. And you forgot to add the word "unsuccessful".

Anyways back to topic I would love a new team in Canada but if the Preds were to move to south ontario would they stay in the west?

That's a good question. They could make a go of it in the West still with Detroit, but at the same time they'd probably like to play Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal more than twice every three years. Unfortunately, I'm not sure who'd the NHL replace them with in the West. We'll see what happens with the NHL schedule after this season.

[CC97]

It doesn't make sense geographically, but hear me out (and get your STOP images ready)...

Move Atlanta, Florida, Tampa Bay to the Central

Move Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Columbus to the Southeast

Move Detroit, Nashville/Ontario to the Northeast

Move Buffalo, Boston to the Atlantic

You might need to change some division names, but we're good!

[KevinMcD]

It doesn't make sense geographically, but hear me out (and get your STOP images ready)...

Move Atlanta, Florida, Tampa Bay to the Central

Move Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Columbus to the Southeast

Move Detroit, Nashville/Ontario to the Northeast

Move Buffalo, Boston to the Atlantic

You might need to change some division names, but we're good!

I don't think Chicago or the Blues would be happy being in a division with Florida, Tampa, and Atlanta. And Florida, which touches the Atlantic, would be in the Western Conference, doesn't realy make much sense.

Also Buffalo fans would much rather play Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, and Nashville/Hamilton, than the NY teams.

I would......

Move Boston to the Atlantic

Move Pittsburgh to the Central

Put Nashville/Hamilton into the Northeast and you are set.

[CC97]

It doesn't make sense geographically, but hear me out (and get your STOP images ready)...

Move Atlanta, Florida, Tampa Bay to the Central

Move Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Columbus to the Southeast

Move Detroit, Nashville/Ontario to the Northeast

Move Buffalo, Boston to the Atlantic

You might need to change some division names, but we're good!

I don't think Chicago or the Blues would be happy being in a division with Florida, Tampa, and Atlanta. And Florida, which touches the Atlantic, would be in the Western Conference, doesn't realy make much sense.

Also Buffalo fans would much rather play Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, and Nashville/Hamilton, than the NY teams.

I would......

Move Boston to the Atlantic

Move Pittsburgh to the Central

Put Nashville/Hamilton into the Northeast and you are set.

I don't care what makes sense geographically, a Detroit, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto division is just too good to miss

[HedleyLamarr]

Here's that letter....

Letter from owner Craig Leipold

May 24, 2007

Dear Predators fans,

June 25, 2007 will mark the 10-year anniversary of the awarding of the NHL franchise to Nashville that became your Nashville Predators. It?s been an incredible 10-year journey for me. I can?t tell you enough how much I appreciate your strong emotional and financial support of the Nashville Predators. You are a big part of the team?s on-ice success. On behalf of the entire franchise, I thank you.

Ten years ago, I couldn?t call myself a hockey expert. Today, my family and I are as passionate and competitive about the game as the most hardcore fans.

When the franchise began, I said we would run it as a business in order to be successful. We developed a game plan both on and off the ice. We became an integral part of the community, especially downtown Nashville. We made sure we had some fun. And, we indicated that making a huge profit was not a top priority ? but we certainly didn?t make plans to lose a significant amount either.

As part of those plans we developed a loyal fan base ? every team should be fortunate enough to have a Cell Block 303 and the loudest arena in the league. We built a team that the community could be proud of on and off the ice. We grew our hockey skills exactly as general manager David Poile outlined, using the draft as a foundation and then supplementing at the appropriate times with trades and free agents. We gave back to the community ? well over $2 million in grants and in-kind donations through the Nashville Predators Foundation. We created an entertaining in-arena atmosphere for every game night. And, we did it all while keeping our ticket prices near the bottom of the league.

Unfortunately, the success on the ice has not translated to success for me as business owner.

Here are just a few facts as to why:

--The Nashville Predators tallied up 216 points in the last two seasons, fifth most in the NHL, yet because of below-average attendance, the team will still have a real cash loss of $27 million during that time. Additionally, that loss is despite receiving the most money in the league from revenue sharing. Over the last five years, the team has lost over $60 million.

--We?ve invested heavily in sales and marketing efforts, spending over $50 million in 10 years, most of that with locally-based businesses.

--Our average regular season attendance this past season was 13,589, up from the year before, but still 2,000 below the NHL average. A low turnout, combined with a low ticket price results in a poor financial situation.

--The new NHL Collective Bargaining Agreement with revenue sharing is not a cure-all. Each local market must still support its local team. In addition, this attendance does not qualify us for our full revenue sharing allocation under the collective bargaining agreement.

--While individual fan support has always been strong, we?ve worked aggressively to increase our local business support since Season Four. We?ve tried a variety of approaches with minimal success. Our records show today that corporate support for the Nashville Predators makes up about 35% of our season ticket base. The average in other markets is around 60%. During our first two years, approximately 4,000 businesses owned season tickets. Today, only 1,800 businesses have season tickets.

While my heart and my love of the game tell me we can still be successful, the facts outlined above suggest otherwise. I?ve reached the only possible conclusion and it?s one of the most difficult decisions of my personal and professional life.

Later today, I am announcing an agreement to sell the Nashville Predators franchise and Powers Management to Jim Balsillie. We plan for the sale to be final in early July after a short period of due diligence and approval from the NHL Board of Governors.

I?ve carried the franchise as far as it can go from a business standpoint. It has been well-reported that we have attempted to attract local ownership since 2002. The truth is, we had only one serious inquiry in that time from someone who was interested in a small minority share of the team. Jim Balsillie is interested in full ownership.

It?s time to give someone else a chance to take the Nashville Predators to the next level in terms of local business support. Last week?s announcement that the Sommet Group has signed on as a naming rights partner for the arena is a strong first step in the right direction. The new energy and leadership of Jim Balsillie will be another.

Jim Balsillie is co-CEO of Research in Motion, the company which developed the Blackberry device. He is an avid hockey fan who still plays recreationally. I know he is dedicated to putting a great team on the ice.

The past 10 years have laid a foundation, but there?s still much to be done to both build corporate support and to win a Stanley Cup. I know Jim shares my passion for the game and my commitment to a strong franchise to pursue the greatest trophy in sports.

Despite the financial challenges we faced, owning this franchise has been the thrill of a lifetime. I?ve made many friendships here in Nashville. It?s been an exciting 10 years, and as I move on from the ranks of team ownership, I?ll always remain a fan.

Sincerely,

CLL

[KevinMcD]

It doesn't make sense geographically, but hear me out (and get your STOP images ready)...

Move Atlanta, Florida, Tampa Bay to the Central

Move Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Columbus to the Southeast

Move Detroit, Nashville/Ontario to the Northeast

Move Buffalo, Boston to the Atlantic

You might need to change some division names, but we're good!

I don't think Chicago or the Blues would be happy being in a division with Florida, Tampa, and Atlanta. And Florida, which touches the Atlantic, would be in the Western Conference, doesn't realy make much sense.

Also Buffalo fans would much rather play Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, and Nashville/Hamilton, than the NY teams.

I would......

Move Boston to the Atlantic

Move Pittsburgh to the Central

Put Nashville/Hamilton into the Northeast and you are set.

I don't care what makes sense geographically, a Detroit, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto division is just too good to miss

But Buffalo is better than Detroit They deserve the Canada division.

In all reality, only really Detroit would benifit with your idea, and CHI, STL, CBJ, ATL, FLA, TB, PHI, PIT, BUF, & BOS would probably not like it.

In my idea only Pittsburgh, and mabye Boston would be mad.

Also, wasn't there some speculation about the NHL consolidating to 4 divisions. One 8 and one 7 team division in each conference, or was that shot down???

[jkrdevil]

It doesn't make sense geographically, but hear me out (and get your STOP images ready)...

Move Atlanta, Florida, Tampa Bay to the Central

Move Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Columbus to the Southeast

Move Detroit, Nashville/Ontario to the Northeast

Move Buffalo, Boston to the Atlantic

You might need to change some division names, but we're good!

No here is what you do. Shift back to 4 divisions, which is something Bettman floated earlier this year and has recently talked about possible realignment even if Nashville doesn't move (because of the Dallas and Minnesota timezone problems).

Detroit, Columbus, Ontario (if Nashville moves) go to the Northeast division.

Washington and Carolina go to the Atlantic Division.

Tampa Bay, Florida, Atlanta, Dallas, and Minnesota go to the central division.

The Pacific and Northwest divisions (minus Minny and Dallas) merge into 1 division.

The result is the following:

Atlantic (Patrick):

Carolina

New Jersey

NY Islanders

NY Rangers

Philadelphia

Pittsburgh

Washington

Northeast (Adams):

Boston

Buffalo

Columbus

Detroit

Montreal

Ontario

Ottawa

Toronto

Central (Norris):

Atlanta

Chicago

Dallas

Minnesota

Florida

St. Louis

Tampa Bay

Pacific (Smythe):

Anaheim

Calgary

Colorado

Edmonton

Los Angeles

Phoenix

San Jose

Vancouver

If Nashville for some reason isn't moved they would simply switch from the Northeast to the Central and the Central would be an 8 team division.

Play every team outside your division twice. 7 team divisions play each other divisional team 6 times. 8 team divisions play half of the division (based on geography) 6 times the other half 5 times. Total 82 game. Top 4 teams in each division make the playoffs. Divisional playoffs reseed the division playoff champions for the final 2 rounds, no conferences.

This keeps the keeps the emphasis on divisions but allows each team to play every team. Also makes the first 2 rounds more exciting as you would get rivalries. Also fixes the current timezone problems as no team is more than 1 timezone away from any division opponent.

The basic idea is the same as yours (excepts with 4 divisions instead of 6). This way though doesn't break up the Atlantic division which has great rivalries. Washington is a perfect fit as they were in that division before and have more history with those teams than they do with their current division. Carolina also has some small history with those teams (notably the Devils) so they would be lost either. As for the Central I'm sure Dallas and Minny would love it as they are screwed timezone wise now. Atlanta is almost in the Central timezone so they would fit (especially if Nashville ends up not moving for some reason). Tampa was originally a Central (Norris division) team their firs t year and have been in the central in other sports. Florida would be happy to stay with Tampa as that is really their only rivalry because they have sucked for a while. Ideally Detroit would play St. Louis and Chicago late in the season to keep those rivalries up.

OK now pull out the STOP images.

[HedleyLamarr]

Realignment may not matter much.

Think about it: This current three-year cycle ends after the 2007-08 season. The schedule would most certainly change back to an older version, either the NBA-style 30-game interconference schedule or the 18-game interconference schedule. Should the Predators move to Ontario yet stay in the Western Conference, the three Eastern opponents they'd play twice could be the Eastern Canada trio.

Also, keeping the Predators in the West brings on an added benefit: The Toronto-area fans can make that small trip to see the Western Conference players on a more-regular basis. Even if they keep this current schedule makeup, the likes of San Jose and Anaheim and Colorado, not to mention the Western Canada trio, would have to make two visits to the new Ontario market. They would be able to watch a lot of games featuring Western Conference teams on East Coast time.

[jkrdevil]

Indications are that realignment may becoming after this season (when the schedule cycle ends) regardless if a team moves. Bettman has said that when the schedule is looked at that they will also look at realignment will also be looked at because Dallas and Minnesota are 2 time zones away from some of their division opponents. The NHL will probably not go to an NBA types schedule where all conference opponents are played the same number of times regardless of division. Most of the Atlantic and Northeastern division teams would probably block that. That leaves some type of emphasis on divisional play which will probably lead to realignment.

[zer0dotcom]

Any reason why Milwaukee has never been bandied about as a potential destination for an NHL franchise? Arena issues? I would have thought that the region would have made it a natural choice.

How's support for Badger hockey?

I think the arena is the major factor, along with concerns that, as a smaller city, it couldn't support a fourth major league team. It would, IIRC, be the smallest city to have all four.

The Bradley Center (where the Bucks play) was built with private money by a philanthropic family that owned the Admirals. They publicly talked about using it to lure an NHL franchise at the time.

Now, I think it's probably too old. Shame, too - the Milwaukee Admirals would be playing in their fifth league.

Admirals have never had very good support either which doesn't help Milwaukee's case. I remember watching the AHL finals in a practically empty Bradley Center a few years ago. Not that any prospective owners were lined up to bring a team there anyway.

Actually, the Admirals had great support during the IHL days. During the lockout they either cracked the 10,000 barrier a few times or at least got close to it (too lazy to actually look it up). Some of their games were even on local TV. All of the former IHL teams' attendance sank like a rock upon arrival in the AHL and it's been discussed often at this board how inept the "A" is when it comes to marketing itself.

Supporting a Minor/Junior league team is a completely different creature than supporting a Major league franchise. Just because people are willing to come out and support minor league teams doesn't mean they'll consistenly buy tickets and big money for merchandise.

Since money is the big 'ticket' topic right now, here are some AHL ticket prices:

All prices are individual regular seasonunless noted

Hamilton Season:

$28-$18 for individual (discounted for seasons holders)

Houston:

$60-$12 for individual tickets

Milwalkee:

$20 - $15 for individual tickets

and I'll throw in London, and Kitchener for the interest in that area

London OHL:

$15-$12.50

Kitchener OHL:

$19-$12 (playoff prices, the regular season wasn't availible)

so, lets look at some NHL prices:

Nashville

$17-$150 (lower bowl is $53 and up)

Pheonix

$15-$300 (lower bowl is $50 and up)

Montreal

$23-$160 (lower bowl is $80 and up)

Pittsburgh

$20-$116 (lower bowl is $60 and up)

Buffalo

$16-$132 (man their ticket price are hard to read...)

Justa taste of the economics. So, in most cases, the best seat in house for several of these AHL and OHL teams is the price of the cheapest seat in the house for these NHL cities. It's one thing to drop 20 bucks to go watch the Admirals or Bulldogs play. It's like going to the movies once in a while.

NHL arenas are bigger than AHL and OHL arenas, and the prices are much higher. Now, the hockey fans in these cities are going to have to be willing to buy out the high priced tickets for those 42 home games each season in order to keep it a viable market. it's quite a jump.

An what happens to the minor league/ junior team? Are people still going to spend their money to see them as well?

--------------------------------

I'm not one who really takes that "oh, this minor league team does well, so a Major league team will really do well!" arguement. There would need to be a HUGE demand for hockey in that market to support both a NHL and AHL/OHL team. I look at Toronto as a market where is could work. THough, it was a reverse case. The Leafs sell out each night. No question. Corporate suits buy up the lower bowl, upper bowl tickets vanish instantly. Lots of hockey fans want to se some hockey. In come the Marlies, and theya re also the Leafs minor league affiliate. $10-$38 bucks to watch the future Leafs play hockey.

Not bad. But thats a long time hockey market, loaded with hockey fans willing to pay. Hockey is a funny sport. Some areas will support the big teams no problem. Some area do well with the minor leaguers. Ottawa is like that too. They had the 67's for years before the Senators came along, and there is a market for minor league hockey as well as NHL.

It's hard to move upwards sometimes, so when saying that a city/region will be an NHL potential market based on the AHL/IHL/OHL success in that area, be carefull