Jump to content

Mine/Hah!


Gary

Recommended Posts

I'm not sure how many of you guys actually played baseball beyond little league, but fake tags and throws are completely different than yelling "MINE!" or "FENCE!" or something similar to distract a player with his head up in the air looking at a baseball.

Fake throws and tags are to keep a runner from advancing an additional base. There isn't a safety concern unless you can't slide properly and somehow injure yourself sliding.

Yelling "MINE!" or "NO ROOM" (this happened to me in HS a couple times on pop flies by the opposing dugout, very bushleague in my eyes) doesn't put you in danger that play. the result of the play is at worst a ball falling for a harmless strike (Foul ball) or single (On the infield)

What happens is then you have 2 players going for a ball (or one going towards a fence) the next time, where their only form of communication since little league is "Yours" or "Mine". Without it you'll have Ryan Freel collisions every game. Not a good thing.

Its against the rules. And more than that, its unsportsmanlike and bush league.

I'm not saying it wasn't classy or bush league - because it was, and this from someone who played ball through high school and into college - but it all falls under the unwritten code of trying to get an edge on your opponent. Pay-Rod saw an opportunity to get in the head of a young kid just called up from Triple-A who wouldn't be used to the sound of his teammate's voice who was a bundle of nerves anyway, and he took his shot.

It's just as much chicanery as the timeless cat & mouse game of stealing signs and brushback pitches.

As far as safety goes, it's no more or less dangerous than when runners obstruct the view of the fielder as a scorching low liner or hot grounder comes rocketing towards them. The runner is trying to maximize the advantage for his team. It's the same reason guys still slide hard trying to break up a double play, and why they often go into 2nd with their arms up - to make completing a double play harder for the middle infielder. If you're that fielder and you want to get back at them, what do you do? You go in hard after their middle infielders. Or have your pitcher defend you by plunking the offending player on the a$$ next time he bats.

This is the kind of thing that game always used to take care by letting the players police the game. No one did the slow HR trot around the bases on Nolan Ryan, Bob Gibson or Don Drysdale because the next guy up would find a 99 MPH heater in their ear. If the Jays were that pissed, buzz Pay-Rod at the plate next time up. Send a message within the unwritten rules of conduct of the game. Don't whine about it when the guy plays a little dirty and it works to his advantage. Would I do it in a game? Probably not (then again, I pitched, so I rarely hit). But if someone did it to my teammate? I'd offer to send a message next time he hit, just so he knows we're hacked off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 66
  • Created
  • Last Reply

I'm not sure how many of you guys actually played baseball beyond little league, but fake tags and throws are completely different than yelling "MINE!" or "FENCE!" or something similar to distract a player with his head up in the air looking at a baseball.

Fake throws and tags are to keep a runner from advancing an additional base. There isn't a safety concern unless you can't slide properly and somehow injure yourself sliding.

Yelling "MINE!" or "NO ROOM" (this happened to me in HS a couple times on pop flies by the opposing dugout, very bushleague in my eyes) doesn't put you in danger that play. the result of the play is at worst a ball falling for a harmless strike (Foul ball) or single (On the infield)

What happens is then you have 2 players going for a ball (or one going towards a fence) the next time, where their only form of communication since little league is "Yours" or "Mine". Without it you'll have Ryan Freel collisions every game. Not a good thing.

Its against the rules. And more than that, its unsportsmanlike and bush league.

I'm not saying it wasn't classy or bush league - because it was, and this from someone who played ball through high school and into college - but it all falls under the unwritten code of trying to get an edge on your opponent. Pay-Rod saw an opportunity to get in the head of a young kid just called up from Triple-A who wouldn't be used to the sound of his teammate's voice who was a bundle of nerves anyway, and he took his shot.

It's just as much chicanery as the timeless cat & mouse game of stealing signs and brushback pitches.

As far as safety goes, it's no more or less dangerous than when runners obstruct the view of the fielder as a scorching low liner or hot grounder comes rocketing towards them. The runner is trying to maximize the advantage for his team. It's the same reason guys still slide hard trying to break up a double play, and why they often go into 2nd with their arms up - to make completing a double play harder for the middle infielder. If you're that fielder and you want to get back at them, what do you do? You go in hard after their middle infielders. Or have your pitcher defend you by plunking the offending player on the a$$ next time he bats.

This is the kind of thing that game always used to take care by letting the players police the game. No one did the slow HR trot around the bases on Nolan Ryan, Bob Gibson or Don Drysdale because the next guy up would find a 99 MPH heater in their ear. If the Jays were that pissed, buzz Pay-Rod at the plate next time up. Send a message within the unwritten rules of conduct of the game. Don't whine about it when the guy plays a little dirty and it works to his advantage. Would I do it in a game? Probably not (then again, I pitched, so I rarely hit). But if someone did it to my teammate? I'd offer to send a message next time he hit, just so he knows we're hacked off.

Exactly.

In today's MLB, there's no real hatred (sustained, that is) amongst players/teams. Players on opposing teams often train with each other during the offseason, and go out to dinner with each other when they come to town during the season. Would that have happened, say, 30 years ago?

Was it a classy move by A-Rod? Nope. Was it a legal move? Until MLB clearly defines what "confusing the fielder" is, yes. If you think otherwise, blame MLB and their gray-area rule.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's not a gray area rule. Until you can come up with another reason why he would yell "mine", how can you argue that he wasn't doing it to confuse the fielder?

MLB hasn't defined what "confuse" is. Until they do define it, it is a gray-area rule.

You can look up Webster's Dictionary all you'd like, it doesn't change MLB's stance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How is there gray area? Even if the word "confuse" is undefined, regardless of the fact that you've yet to come up with what else it could possibly mean, how can you argue that Rodriguez yelling didn't interfere with his ability to catch the ball? If he doesn't yell "mine", the 3rd baseman doesn't think that his shortstop calls him off, and he makes the catch. His not making the play was a direct result of A-Rod's verbal interference.

A-Rod yelling was an attempt to confuse the fielder. The rule book clearly states that attempting to confuse the fielder -- ANY attempt to confuse the fielder. It's not as though we're discussing a word that takes on multiple meanings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The baserunner doesn't have to yell a damn thing. It's not like there are more than one player going for the same base.

He yelled to distract, plain and simple. Come up with a reason why he WOULD yell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The baserunner doesn't have to yell a damn thing. It's not like there are more than one player going for the same base.

He yelled to distract, plain and simple. Come up with a reason why he WOULD yell.

Stepped on a pebble and stuck his foot?

:grin:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How is there gray area? Even if the word "confuse" is undefined, regardless of the fact that you've yet to come up with what else it could possibly mean, how can you argue that Rodriguez yelling didn't interfere with his ability to catch the ball? If he doesn't yell "mine", the 3rd baseman doesn't think that his shortstop calls him off, and he makes the catch. His not making the play was a direct result of A-Rod's verbal interference.

A-Rod yelling was an attempt to confuse the fielder. The rule book clearly states that attempting to confuse the fielder -- ANY attempt to confuse the fielder. It's not as though we're discussing a word that takes on multiple meanings.

Think of it this way, in legal terms: In MLB's current rulebook, there is nothing saying that shouting at a fielder is "confusing the fielder". You may view it as confusing, I may view it as confusing, but as of right now, MLB doesn't consider yelling at a fielder as "confusing the fielder". Hence, that rule has gray area.

How do you get rid of this gray area? Be more specific on the rule, define what all falls under "confusing the fielder".

Is that easier for you to understand?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, because it was an attempt to confuse the fielder, and confusing the fielder is illegal. Rules are not always word for word, but it's not terribly difficult to connect the dots here. And it also doesn't exclude verbal interference as confusing the fielder, so according to the rule as it's written, any act done to confuse the fielder is illegal. You can talk down all you want and you make it more complicated than it is -- but it's extremely simple. Attempting to confuse the fielder is illegal, and he attempted to confuse the fielder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, because it was an attempt to confuse the fielder, and confusing the fielder is illegal. Rules are not always word for word, but it's not terribly difficult to connect the dots here. And it also doesn't exclude verbal interference as confusing the fielder, so according to the rule as it's written, any act done to confuse the fielder is illegal. You can talk down all you want and you make it more complicated than it is -- but it's extremely simple. Attempting to confuse the fielder is illegal, and he attempted to confuse the fielder.

Sorry. Still can't agree with the "A-Rod was wrong" camp. I can agree with it being a total dick move, but it's definitely a gray area call.

For all those calling foul, how is yelling to confuse/distract the fielder any different than a runner intentionally obscuring the fielder's view of a ground ball until the very last moment? For that matter, how is it different from the fielder misleading the runner into thinking the ball got thrown away, or was hit on the ground instead of popped up in an attempt to con the runner into another out? Or the hidden ball trick?

Christ, baseball has a long tradition of similar actions as part of a colorful history. Terry Francona's father, Tito, was a baserunner at first, and he yelled at a pitcher while he was in his windup! The pitcher stopped when he heard "Whoa, hold it!". He was called for a balk, the Indians got a crucial late run, and the play was sneaky but savvy.

Same thing here, folks. People are up in arms largely because the 25 Million Dollar Man deigned to play a little head game with a rookie, and it worked.

I won't disagree that it wasn't sneaky and underhanded. But it is NOT illegal. As such, it's a smart play, even if done by the man everyone loves to hate. Get over it; and if you're a Blue Jay who took offense, have your pitcher buzz him next time he's in the batters' box. Don't get mad; get even.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But Willie Mays Hays did it in Major League!! That mean's its legal right??

If "confuses" doesn't mean yelling I don't know what else it could mean.

Just like all those uncalled penalties that the Mighty Ducks got!

God bless Hollywood....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
Wow, other than the typical baseball "brawl" where no punches were thrown...Pretty heated confrontation.

The best part was the stare down Matt Stairs was giving A-Rod after the melee.

And kinda off-topic, but is there a better defensive shortstop than John McDonald? I think not!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, other than the typical baseball "brawl" where no punches were thrown...Pretty heated confrontation.

I believe that squares us with A-Rod... now we need to take out that Shelly Duncan character

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, other than the typical baseball "brawl" where no punches were thrown...Pretty heated confrontation.

I believe that squares us with A-Rod... now we need to take out that Shelly Duncan character

Wasn't she in the Hogan Family?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, other than the typical baseball "brawl" where no punches were thrown...Pretty heated confrontation.

I believe that squares us with A-Rod... now we need to take out that Shelly Duncan character

How bad is it when you're the weird looking Duncan brother?

Chris:

duncahump.jpg

Shelly:

226810.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Yankees will be the Yankees....

A-Rod will be A-Rod....

Jeter will be Jeter....

They will get all the press and be noticed, BUT....

They are still 13 1/2 games behind Boston in the East!

5 games, woohoo

Back on topic shelly is one weird lookin dude

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.