If the Predators move to Hamilton....

[oakland ehs]

hey, i liked powerplay.

[Gothamite]

As far as support in Nashville again from what I have read it is very strong with your average fan wise.

No, it isn't.

The numbers don't lie - and they have been terrible. The fans won't turn out to support a winning club. That much is demonstrably true.

Corporate support is indeed a problem, but so is the lack of any significant fanbase. They've had a decade to build one, but it just isn't there.

[Broken Record]

I think they should be called the Hamilton Timmy Changs, cuz Timmy Chang rawks Hamilton. Their colors/uniforms should look just like the Hawaii Warriors.

[CC97]

Regarding me bashing the not-yet-owner: He has shown numerous times, via words, actions, et cetera, that he wants to move this team to Ontario. If that involves me losing my beloved Preds, then I'm gonna bash.

Can't blame you for that one... as you could imagine the opinion of the man up here is completely opposite.

[xyzzyva]

If they do move to Hamilton they should honor the Steel & Iron Industry with a nickname related to that.

Some Names:

Hamilton Vulcans

Hamilton IronPigs

Hamilton Steelers

Hamilton Forge

Hamilton Steamhammers

I can already think of some interesting designs possibilities for Vulcans, (hammers, lightning bolts, an anvil, Greek gods... rubber) and then there's always the built-in Star Trek factor.

Live long and prosper.

[So_Fla]

The sell isn't going to go through so I don't think it really matters! hahaha!

Cold hard facts speak louder then a city who can't muster enough support to hold onto a team:

Hamilton NHL ticket deposits leap past Nashville's base

Two days into the campaign, the number of people putting deposits on season tickets for a potential National Hockey League team in Hamilton overtook the number of season-ticket holders of the Nashville Predators.

By early Friday afternoon, Jim Balsillie, who is trying to buy the Predators, sold almost 10,000 seats and luxury suites for Copps Coliseum, where the team will play if it is moved from Nashville. The Predators currently have just under 9,000 season-ticket holders.

I fully realize Hamilton is not Saskatoon, it was just an example from the past to show approval is not guaranteed.

There were 6,533 seats sold in the lower bowl at Copps for a deposit $1,000 each, while 3,367 seats in the upper bowl went for deposits of $500 for a total of 9,900. Also, 64 of the 70 proposed suites were reserved for $5,000 each.

In the meantime, a group of local business people in Nashville said it is considering a bid for the Predators if Balsillie's purchase, said to be worth up to $238-million (U.S.), falls through. Balsillie and his lawyer, Richard Rodier, are working on a purchase agreement with Predators owner Craig Leipold. Once that is in place, it will go to the NHL's board of governors for approval, although no one knows when that will happen. The latest group of buyers cannot make a bid unless Balsillie, the co-CEO of BlackBerry manufacturer Research In Motion Inc., is no longer in the running.

According to NashvillePost.com, the new group of buyers wants to remain anonymous for now and it includes people from the healthcare field. However, a spokesman for the group told the web site that they first want to make sure there is sufficient corporate support for the team in Nashville before making a bid. Leipold said his financial woes in running the Predators were due to the lack of support from the local business community.

http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/R...ortsHockey/home

In the end money and ticket sales will mean more then a few NHL governors being pissed with Basille. Money and ticket sales are the bottom line, and Basille has both in spades.

Of course there is a difference between putting your money down for actual tickets and putting a fully refundable deposit down for tickets down the road. The Hamilton season tickets sales should be taken with a grain of salt.

Not really. The fact that they're willing to pay for season tickets proves the interest in hockey in Hamilton far outweighs the interest in Nashville, and that more people in Hamilton are willing to buy Preds season tickets then their Nashville counterparts.

The fact that the tickets are refundable doesn't matter. People wouldn't be buying them unless they were interested in the product, in this case NHL hockey. But hey, don't let something like that stop you from shaking the boat, right?

The fact that it is fully refundable does make a huge difference. It more allows people to take in part the hype of getting a new team. Because it is fully refundable they can put the money down and if they need it later on the can call back and cancel and get their money back. Whereas in Nashville a person puts down a deposit for season tickets and once they get the tickets can't get their money back. All Hamilton shows me is that there is/will be a honeymoon period which happens with most teams. Again another example is Nashville was sold out their inaugural season. The question is what will Hamilton be like after the honeymoon period in a crowded market if they are bad (which they very well be)?

But people wouldn't be buying the tickets in the first place if they didn't want to see whatever the tickets were for.

I could start taking deposits in Hamilton for underwater basket-weaving, fully refundable. I wouldn't sell any because people don't want to see the product. People are buying these tickets for Hamilton NHL hockey because they want to see NHL hockey in Hamilton.

Even if the team flounders tickets would still sell. This isn't America, this is Canada. We support our teams through thick and thin.

Nationalism aside though, even if the Hamilton team struggles, they would still be providing NHL hockey in a region full of hockey fans that would still be unable to get tickets to a Maple Leafs game (the Leafs, being a team that sells out even when they're terrible, what a shock!). In short, great season, mediocre season, or bad season, a Hamilton team would sell out almost every home game.

The fact that it is fully refundable does make a huge difference. It more allows people to take in part the hype of getting a new team. Because it is fully refundable they can put the money down and if they need it later on the can call back and cancel and get their money back. Whereas in Nashville a person puts down a deposit for season tickets and once they get the tickets can't get their money back. All Hamilton shows me is that there is/will be a honeymoon period which happens with most teams. Again another example is Nashville was sold out their inaugural season. The question is what will Hamilton be like after the honeymoon period in a crowded market if they are bad (which they very well be)?

I knew there were still some sensible Canadians out there!

I'm not Canadian but I'm sure there are some out there.

Yeah, and they all see that moving a team out of a failing southern market and putting them in a market filled with rabid hockey fans that can't get tickets to see the "local" team is the right move. We love our hockey, why not put an other team here? Our six teams already contribute around 40% of the NHL's revenue anyway.

People like you, what exactly is your main objection to a team in Hamilton other then not wanting a seventh Canadian NHL team?

Well I'm just asking the simple question and not going It's Canada of course the team will sell out. Are these people going to stop being Maple Leaf fans, and to a lesser extent Sabres and Wings fans, after they have been most of there life? To give an example of where I am from the NYC/Northern New Jersey area is baseball mad. Baseball by in large is the most popular sport in the area. It's much like Hockey in Southern Ontario, it is where the game developed and grew. Last year there was talk about the Marlins possible moving to Northern NJ because of population size and how baseball mad the area was. I said even if they somehow got by the Yankees and Mets territorial objects that the team would be a failure. Simple reason is that most of NJ is Yankee fans and those people aren't going to switch teams if a new one comes in. Sure the new team would get the Anti-Yankees fans who pretend to be Red Sox fans but that won't be enough to make it a resounding success. I would suspect things would be similar in Hamilton they would get the Anti-Leaf crowd but that won't be enough to make the team the resounding success that some are making Hamilton out to be. Another example I know from my own experience that it took the Devils close to 20 years to build a fan base and only now with a new easier accessible building are they going to draw near capacity on a regular basis. A large portion of the Devils fan base is young and were very young or not even alive when the Devils moved to NJ. Most people who were already fans didn't switch from the Rangers to the Devils when they moved.

The question with the Leaf fans who can't get tickets is do they just want to see NHL hockey live or do they want to see the Leafs live? My guess is a lot of it is wanting to see their favorite team, the Maple Leafs, live. In that case those people won't be buying Hamilton season tickets and will only buy tickets when the Leafs are in town. As for packing them in when they are bad well that will depend on a lot of things. The stuff mentioned before and stuff like arena location and such. I know it's western Canada but the Oilers, Flames, and Canucks did necessarily pack people in when they were bad. Another thing to possible consider is possible provincial snobbery. It seems like this new team in Hamilton will try to draw some from Toronto, are people from Toronto area going to want to go to Hamilton or will they refuse just because it's Hamilton? I don't the dynamics of the area when it comes to stuff like that so if someone from there could shed some light it would be helpful to better understand everything. I know it is something that does exist in other places.

As for the Hamilton ticket drive I do take that with a grain of salt because a lot of that is driven by civic, and in this case nationalistic pride. No matter where the location is when you ask people if they want a team in there city and if they will support them they almost always will say yes. Add on top of that the message in the media making this a nationalistic pride thing off taking a team back from America and it even furthers the pride factor. As mentioned early these are fully refundable so once all the hype and nationalism dies down and some people realize they one can't afford them or 2 don't want them they can get their money back. Don't under estimate the power of nationalism in order to inflate support.

My point is that I question think Hamilton will be the resounding success some of said it will be. There will probably be a honeymoon period but after that I think it would be a moderately successful team gate wise but financially there may be a lot of payouts that would hurt the team. I'm sure they would have to pay Toronto a lot in territorial fees plus the money it would cost to get out of Nashville as that city will definitely fight to keep the team. These are all questions I think the BOG will ask plus the territorial issue. The BOG is a scratch each others back club and that might hurt Hamilton's chances at a team because Toronto, Buffalo, and to a lesser extent Detroit will all be against a move there.

Of that 40% how much is from the Leafs and the Candiens?

AS for Nashville I for one don't think the team is as bad off as the owner has claimed. Again from what I have read on the situation it seems that it is a bit of numbers fudging. While the team itself may be losing money the affiliated arena management company is profitable. Of course the arena management right are tied to ownership of the Predators and thus the two are linked. It is essentially shuffling around the books to show what you want. It's one of the oldest accounting tricks in the books. I believe San Jose and Boston have done similar tricks to try and justify higher ticket prices. It is also one of the reasons why the lockout took a year because one of the fears the players had to links to revenues is tricks like these. I believe in the new CBA revenues are counted as hockey related both from the team and affiliated companies. Of course that doesn't matter for PR purposes like in this case where the owner sells the team to someone who wants to move it and tries to justify it. I'm not saying Nashville is turning a large profit, they even may be at a slight loss (which is normal for a pro sports franchise) it's just that I question if they are losing as much as they say given the circumstances.

As far as support in Nashville again from what I have read it is very strong with your average fan wise. The problem is with corporate support which let's face it little to no pro sports franchises would turn a profit now a days without it. Part of the problem there is that the ownership of the Predators is not local, the owner is from and lives in Wisconsin. Further more it seems he has done a poor job of marketing to Nashville businesses. It looks like there is a local group willing to step up if the current deal falls through and that will probably help with the corporate support that the team needs.

Finally you know that statement was a playful jab and nothing was meant by it. This discussion has been an intelligent one. I don't have a problem with a team in Hamilton I just question if it is going to be the resounding success some say it will be. Especially now when nationalism is being used to ramp up support for a new team. There are a lot of issues in play here and a strong chance that Hamilton or Balsillie will be blocked.

Y'all read this:

Tennessee Voices: Savvy businessman would keep Preds in town

I didn't get through one paragraph before I realised how bs this article was. If they can't even get Jim Balsillie's origins correct (he was raised in Peterborough and his company is based out of Kitchener/Waterloo... he is NOT from Hamilton...) then how do I expect the rest of this article to be accurate??

The fact that you just rambled off Balls-silly's biographical info like that not only scares me, but it also makes me think you're from Canada...

Anyway, the guy who wrote this is an economics professor from Vanderbilt in Nashville, not a Canadian cartographer. So the guy says that Balls-silly is from Hamilton. Big deal. That's the only Canadian location that dude's probably heard through all the BS being thrown. He's an economist. He's knows money, business, etc., and that's what the article is about. Just read the freaking thing.

After a quick google search of him his specialty is as a sports economist.

Wow...I just wanted to repost a realllllllly looooong post again.

Seriously, what is going to happen is this:

I have heard two stories.

1a) The Nashville Predators will be sold to Balsillie.

1b) The Hamilton Bulldogs will be moved to Indianapolis and play in the AHL for one season.

1c) The Nashville Predators will then move to Cincinnati and play at the USBank Arena for one season.

1d) The Copps Coliseum will be renovated.

1e) The Predators move to Hamilton and the Bulldogs move to Cincinnati.

2a) The Hamilton Bulldogs move to Cincinnati and play in the AHL at USBank Arena.

2b) The Copps Coliseum will be renovated.

2c) The Predators move to Hamilton when the Copps Coliseum is renovated.

That way, the "fans" in Nashville will get "one more chance" to fill that arena (what ever it is called) in Nashville before Blackberry Boy moves them.

[Broken Record]

I think they should be called the Hamilton Timmy Changs, cuz Timmy Chang rawks Hamilton. Their colors/uniforms should look just like the Hawaii Warriors.

The more I think about this, it really really works. For short, they could just be the Ti-Changs.

[cleckie]

The bottom line is that if Balsillie offer of $238m goes through it will be approved by the Board. With the Predators being valued at around $130m, they would be crazy not to with him overpaying by so much. I raises the value of the franchises around the league immediately. It's pretty straight forward business in that regard.

Thats pretty much all the NHL BoG's care about is the $$

[gueman]

My 2 cents...at the last minute a ownership group made up of locals from Nashville will come forward with prominent Canadian country music stars as the "faces" behind the $$$. If the Blackberry Barron is allowed to move to Hamilton cities will be very reluctant to build an arena. The Sommet Center is just 11 years old and I doubt is it outdated, so why would a city risk building an arena for a team that will leave in 10 years. Perhaps the NHL should expand and allow the Blackberry Barron first dibs on a team.

If they do move I doubt the Pred's name will make the move. A question for all the SE Ont members...could one build an arena were the 401 meets 6 and make the team regional, trying to get support from Kitchener, Waterloo, and Hamilton? If that could happen I would name the team the Ontario Pride.

[BBM]

The NHL is not going to expand any time soon, so forget that.

While I realize every city has a passionate core base, the fact of the matter is hockey is not on the radar of most Tennesseans. It's 1) college football, 2) NASCAR, 3) college basketball, and the NFL and NBA coming in after that. Hockey is waaaay down on that list.

Southern Ontario on the other hand...

[wingsfan85]

My 2 cents...at the last minute a ownership group made up of locals from Nashville will come forward with prominent Canadian country music stars as the "faces" behind the $$$. If the Blackberry Barron is allowed to move to Hamilton cities will be very reluctant to build an arena. The Sommet Center is just 11 years old and I doubt is it outdated, so why would a city risk building an arena for a team that will leave in 10 years. Perhaps the NHL should expand and allow the Blackberry Barron first dibs on a team.

If they do move I doubt the Pred's name will make the move. A question for all the SE Ont members...could one build an arena were the 401 meets 6 and make the team regional, trying to get support from Kitchener, Waterloo, and Hamilton? If that could happen I would name the team the Ontario Pride.

The team will not be called 'Ontario' with teams in Toronto and Ottawa. Just won't happen.

[gueman]

The NHL is not going to expand any time soon, so forget that.

While I realize every city has a passionate core base, the fact of the matter is hockey is not on the radar of most Tennesseans. It's 1) college football, 2) NASCAR, 3) college basketball, and the NFL and NBA coming in after that. Hockey is waaaay down on that list.

Southern Ontario on the other hand...

And what a better way to improve that by not nurturing the market, and letting the team leave. Remember, Nashville with 15,259 had better attendance than 24) Phoenix 14,988 25) Boston 14,764 26) New Jersey 14,176 27) Washington 13,929 28) NY Islanders 12,886 29) Chicago 12,727 30) St. Louis 12,520 so with the exception of Phoenix and DC. All are established hockey markets, and only NJ and NYI play in hole arenas. And the Stanley Cup champion Ducks only averaged 16,363 just over 1100 more each game.

Look I am not saying you are wrong, but the NHL is a niche sport in America outside the northeast and upper Midwest. And you have to be willing to grow the sport. Look at the location of the last 3 cup champs, Anaheim, Carolina, and Tampa Bay, none are in hockey hotbeds. But all have a good following now and only Montreal and Detroit had better attendance that Tampa.

I feel the same about the Preds moving as I did about the Griz moving from Vancouver. I don't think it is really necessary. But like all things in life $$$ talks and bull $hit walks.

What it really says is...even if you support your team, and you play in a modern arena. We can still move the team anyway.

[CC97]

And what a better way to improve that by not nurturing the market, and letting the team leave. Remember, Nashville with 15,259 had better attendance than 24) Phoenix 14,988 25) Boston 14,764 26) New Jersey 14,176 27) Washington 13,929 28) NY Islanders 12,886 29) Chicago 12,727 30) St. Louis 12,520 so with the exception of Phoenix and DC. All are established hockey markets, and only NJ and NYI play in hole arenas. And the Stanley Cup champion Ducks only averaged 16,363 just over 1100 more each game.

Just to clarify... those numbers are "average amount of tickets distributed per game" which includes freebies handed out to whoever in an attempt to get more butts in the seat - someone has a link of actual tickets sold/game for every team, I cannot recall where Nashville ranks on that list - they could even be higher than 23rd I don't know.

[gueman]

I would name the team the Ontario Pride.

The team will not be called 'Ontario' with teams in Toronto and Ottawa. Just won't happen.

Yea what was I thinking...Texas Rangers (Houston Astros), Golden State Warriors (LA Clips & Lakers), Florida Panthers & Marlins (Tampa Bay Lightning & Rays). And remember the California Angels. Yea naming a team Ontario wouldn't work...what was I thinking? Remember I only suggested that if it was going to be more of a regional based team. But I do think all this is moot because the Preds are not moving.

[CC97]

Remember I only suggested that if it was going to be more of a regional based team. But I do think all this is moot because the Preds are not moving.

I used to think the Expos would survive too

Anyways, if they end up putting a team in the Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge-Guelph-London-Hamilton area there's really no other name than "Ontario" that would appeal to all of those markets.

[DEAD!]

Remember I only suggested that if it was going to be more of a regional based team. But I do think all this is moot because the Preds are not moving.

I used to think the Expos would survive too

Anyways, if they end up putting a team in the Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge-Guelph-London-Hamilton area there's really no other name than "Ontario" that would appeal to all of those markets.

The Ontario (insert nickname) of (insert city/region)

[CC97]

Remember I only suggested that if it was going to be more of a regional based team. But I do think all this is moot because the Preds are not moving.

I used to think the Expos would survive too

Anyways, if they end up putting a team in the Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge-Guelph-London-Hamilton area there's really no other name than "Ontario" that would appeal to all of those markets.

The Ontario (insert nickname) of (insert city/region)

Or you could be like the Quad City Flames... but the prefix version of 'six' may be inappropriate for a pro team

[Lee.]

Remember I only suggested that if it was going to be more of a regional based team. But I do think all this is moot because the Preds are not moving.

I used to think the Expos would survive too

Anyways, if they end up putting a team in the Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge-Guelph-London-Hamilton area there's really no other name than "Ontario" that would appeal to all of those markets.

"Not Toronto"

[CC97]

Remember I only suggested that if it was going to be more of a regional based team. But I do think all this is moot because the Preds are not moving.

I used to think the Expos would survive too

Anyways, if they end up putting a team in the Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge-Guelph-London-Hamilton area there's really no other name than "Ontario" that would appeal to all of those markets.

"Not Toronto"

they'd instantly become "Canada's Team"

[Lee.]

I'd cheer for 'em. Right after the Canucks, Blackhawks, Wild, and Salmon Kings.