Please help get rid of the Sabres new logo!

[daschuck77]

I'm unsure if those were finalists in the process, but they are actual designs submitted.

So yes, the traditional route was pursued. And you'll be happy to know DASCHUCK77, that they were designed by a native WNY'er.

Who was a fan of Zorro by the looks of the slashing on the poor bison...The poor thing looks molested.

I'll admit that the slug looks marginally better than this wounded vintage wannabe. Some of them are quite similar to some of Slabyks concepts as well...

But look below...In my opinion, it is still a far cry from where Slabyk had it right all along.

I think Slabyk may have come cheaper than 200k too...

you mean the charging cotton ball? sorry, but I think Slabyk's are weak. I've never seen the allure of what

makes people like them so much. They're too busy with multiple outlines, unneccesary shading and the bison are not rendered very well. Too stubby and puffy. At least the ones shown are thought out and when you actually look at the charging bisons the lines flow back and the angles and curves have purpose. It's actually designed and not just drawn. The zorro slash you refer to indicates the distinction between the mane and the body, I don't get why it's wounded? The first one looks like a very slight update to the original crest, which is what alot of people first cried for when the Slug was leaked.

Basically you're never going to like anything else but Slabyk designs, however like I mentioned earlier in the thread, they're never going to use them, so you can stop beating the horse, it's dead. Would you at least take my advice and remove J.Patton from your website? they had nothing to do with designing the slug. When all the yelling is over I do support your effort to get rid of the slug and find a better logo. We can just agree to disagree. I want the old original logo as is and you want Slabyks.

John's designs were only drafts and I do agree with the Buffalo could be slimmed down a bit and given more body detail and sleekness...All of which could be done rather easily and quickly. And me only liking Slabyk's designs is not necessarily true and a closed minded attitude...What is closed minded is that I would rather have the slug gone by any means necessary. But it is his design I prefer and feel it is the best and most popular alternative to the Slug that is most closely available for production at this time.

The reasoning with putting Slabyk's logo on the current uniform would be a more cost effective transition...Put his logo on the current uniform, and bring back the new "darker" alternate vintage in 2008-2009. Unlike the Islanders who went back to their vintage logo while keeping the fisherman teal colors, waiting for the NHL to let them go back to the traditional colors, the Sabres wouldn't have to change colors because the colors are good as is...Slabyk just has to match the logo to the current color of the Sabres' uniform. If the Sabres switched the slug in favor of the vintage on the current jersey, it would force them to come up with an entirely new concept for a third jersey. The Sabres need that revenue of a third jersey and think the vintage offers steady sales in that department. I want to see the vintage stay in some form as well. I think it would be doubtful that they brought back the black and red, it would take too much time, money, and development bringing the black and red into an Edge jersey.

[TSM]

While I think the management has absolutely no reasons to change the logo now, I don't think us slug-haters should worry too much. Just wait a little. Nobody in his right mind can possibly think that the rabid chipmunk will withstand any kind of a test of time.

In 10-15 years it will go the way of Phoenix's LSD dog and the Isles' ghost of Hemingway.

[daschuck77]

While I think the management has absolutely no reasons to change the logo now, I don't think us slug-haters should worry too much. Just wait a little. Nobody in his right mind can possibly think that the rabid chipmunk will withstand any kind of a test of time.

In 10-15 years it will go the way of Phoenix's LSD dog and the Isles' ghost of Hemingway.

I'm willing to wait and abstain...I'm just trying to expedite the process a bit. I know it can't happen overnight...but not in 10 years though.

[Gothamite]

I tend to think that it'll be closer to the LSD dog's ten years than the Fisherman's two, but we'll see.

If the rebuilding is as disastrous as the fans fear it will be, they might be looking for a change sooner than later.

[SabreGuy]

I tend to think that it'll be closer to the LSD dog's ten years than the Fisherman's two, but we'll see.

If the rebuilding is as disastrous as the fans fear it will be, they might be looking for a change sooner than later.

I tend to agree on both points, however the ever-hopeful fan in me thinks the second point probably won't come in to play, and we're probably looking for something in the neighbourhood of 10 years... which is ABOUT the standard life span of a dated sports logo these days.

Some stand the test of time, but I feel like most branding efforts in the last... 20 years or so, maybe?... have about an 8 - 12 year lifespan, and I feel like that's probably by design.

[Coast2CoastAM2006]

if losing killed fisherman, then the sabres need to only win 20 games total the next 3 years and maybe fans will associate losing with the logo rather than success. Then the slug will be gone in a couple of years. if the sabres make continual trips to the ECF in the slug logo, then that logo will stay until a pulsar hits the earth as seen in Exodus.

[CubsFanBudMan]

You're looking at it through the eyes of a logo/uniform fan. As OnWis pointed out, the majority of fans will always want to but their team's latest gear, regardless of what they think of the logo. The NY Islanders were #4 in sales when they first unveiled the Fish Stick uniforms.

Unlike the Islanders though, the momentum of having fans wanting the new uniform was sustained through the team playing some of the best hockey in club history.

A new look, paired with winning, will produce sales regardless of the actual design.

Oh, that's not what I'm saying at all.

Reebok can't seem to manufacture an accurate Rams jersey anymore, so I refuse to buy one. I wear my outdated jerseys with gold side panels.

My Fighting Illini football and basketball teams swtiched to terrible uniforms last year. I'll wear my old stuff until they get good looks (actually, I flipflop on the football look).

And I'd do the same if the Cardinals or Blues got awful looks.

But there's a lot of people who aren't that concerned with it. And they want to wear what the team wears regardless. They just aren't concerned with the logo on the merchandise (because the logo, while ugly, doesn't actually make an entire piece of clothing ugly if that makes sense).

Now, I do believe that a fan should care more about the people within the organization than the visual identity. But I didn't mean to imply that for a fan to do that he has to be willing to buy whatever is the current logo. We're the types of fans who care enough about the visual identity that we won't buy a bad logo but will still support the team. But the majority of fans who bought the merchandise probably don't care for the logo, but also just plain don't care.

It seems you both think I'm thinking as a uniform fan first, rather than a fan, and maybe that's true. But I'll state for the record that I like the Cubs much more than their uniforms. I'll cheer them whatever they wear, I just might not be wearing it when I do.

I guess, as you guys both stated, there's just a large number of fans who will buy the new stuff just because it's new -- or to match what's on the field/court/ice. Especially if they're winning. I guess it'd be hard not to own a jersey the Cubs finally won a World Series in, no matter how ugly it is. I'd certainly make that deal...

[Gothamite]

You might have found the one circumstance under which I would buy a current Brewers jersey.

Of course, knowing Ned Yost, he'd have them play all the home games in the retro duds, and with a little luck they'd clinch it in five.

[STL FANATIC]

CFBM, just for the record, was never questioning your fanhood at all. I know you're a good fan, even if you do root for the Cubs.

[CubsFanBudMan]

CFBM, just for the record, was never questioning your fanhood at all. I know you're a good fan, even if you do root for the Cubs.

Ha... no, I knew what you were saying. And you wouldn't believe the number of Cardinals fans in my extended family if I told you. I'm the odd man out -- and the one still waiting for that title.

[fufkin]

If only the people who are so passionate about the logo issue would actually use their energy to solve some REAL issues in Buffalo.

[Gothamite]

If only the people who are so passionate about the logo issue would actually use their energy to solve some REAL issues in Buffalo.

A common complaint, no less nonsensical for its repetition.

Show me an example where being concerned with the logo prevents anyone from "solv(ing) some REAL issues," and you might have a point. Until then, it's just silly.

[eSabre]

If only the people who are so passionate about the logo issue would actually use their energy to solve some REAL issues in Buffalo.

Amen, brother.

[SabreGuy]

If only the people who are so passionate about the logo issue would actually use their energy to solve some REAL issues in Buffalo.

A common complaint, no less nonsensical for its repetition.

Show me an example where being concerned with the logo prevents anyone from "solv(ing) some REAL issues," and you might have a point. Until then, it's just silly.

I suppose I could be using my time on this message board to be out there building a new Peace Bridge to Canada... but I can get away with this at work. Leaving here to build the bridge would probably get me fired from my paying job, and uncomfortably probed by border guards.

[js °]

Who was a fan of Zorro by the looks of the slashing on the poor bison...The poor thing looks molested.

I'll admit that the slug looks marginally better than this wounded vintage wannabe. Some of them are quite similar to some of Slabyks concepts as well...

But look below...In my opinion, it is still a far cry from where Slabyk had it right all along.

I think Slabyk may have come cheaper than 200k too...

you mean the charging cotton ball? sorry, but I think Slabyk's are weak. I've never seen the allure of what

makes people like them so much. They're too busy with multiple outlines, unneccesary shading and the bison are not rendered very well. Too stubby and puffy. At least the ones shown are thought out and when you actually look at the charging bisons the lines flow back and the angles and curves have purpose. It's actually designed and not just drawn. The zorro slash you refer to indicates the distinction between the mane and the body, I don't get why it's wounded? The first one looks like a very slight update to the original crest, which is what alot of people first cried for when the Slug was leaked.

Wow, well thats my cue to chime in. I will gladly accept any criticism of my work, as I have done all along the way, and its only improved the results at every turn. But this "charging cotton ball" comment, just doesn't really make any sense to me. Lets go to the board ...

This is an American Bison ... aka Buffalo.

This is an illustration of a Native American spirit which manifested itself in the form of a white buffalo / woman to usher in a great era of propserity and change. White buffaloes are a rare phenomenon that still exists, as they are not albino, but just born with white fur. Great symbolism, great historical and modern references important to WNY ...

Now lets look at a few different representations of these guys ...

Aaaaaaand which one looks like a "charging cotton ball" to you ebod ? I have always been the first to put a large disclaimer on the front of my work noting that they are unfinished concepts done in my own time, and if given the proper attention, a lot of kinks would be ironed out in the process. Charlie is always backing me up on that too (thanks man).

And which of these look like "the bison is not rendered very well. Too stubby and puffy." I'm sorry, maybe you are just seeing something I'm not here ebod, but I don't see a very well rendered bison in these concepts.

I see a top heavy beast with odd, awkward legs that never seem natural. I also see a rather odd man / beast character here rather than a bison ..

I don't know where these beautiful locks of hair flowing in the wind come from, but certainly not a buffalo.

And the sabres themselves in this concept series, seem rather cartoony and "Alladin-esque". The sabres are the essence of the logo and deserve to appear swift and strong, not bubbly and over-stylized.

The imbalance in the negative space in these concepts are rather obvious as well. The original Sabres logo was stylized the way it was because rendering a buffalo or any animal for that matter in a defined space requires a delicate attention to the negative space around it. A defined balance needs to be met to allow for the mark as a whole to appear strong, and not just elements of it to appear as desired. These concepts fail that test in my eyes.

So, ebod, please explain to me how these were "designed and not just drawn", implying that my concepts were the other side of that coin.

[js °]

Also, I just want to say that IceCap and Charlie have both made pretty much every argument there is to make about the inequality of jerseys offered, the results of that, and what we can expect to see this year and the year after in jersey sales ... which may provoke the oppurtunity for a change.

There has not been one single person that I have heard say about this rebrand that they 'nailed it'. There are those who say, 'its grown on me', or 'its better than the goat head'. But not one person have I heard, 'its perfect'.

Rather, you hear the jokes cracked round the sports world. Even the supporters of it, call it a slug. And why should fans accept that. If its not what they want for THEIR team ... they shouldn't accept with degrees of dissatisfaction.

And you're wrong eSabre, when you claimed that this team is "a private firm, and the logo change was internal process." The business of sports is much closer to a fraternal organization than a private firm. Members pay their dues to participate in the rituals and ultimately form a bond with other members of this group. The management are merely the organizers, and should be held accountable by the whole membership (players & fans) for their decisions.

Following a line of thought of this as a 'private firm', only takes you to a place where there are no consequences for the decisions made by the organizers, because they are refusing to acknowledge the legitimacy of their members.

[eSabre]

And you're wrong eSabre, when you claimed that this team is "a private firm, and the logo change was internal process." The business of sports is much closer to a fraternal organization than a private firm. Members pay their dues to participate in the rituals and ultimately form a bond with other members of this group. The management are merely the organizers, and should be held accountable by the whole membership (players & fans) for their decisions.

Following a line of thought of this as a 'private firm', only takes you to a place where there are no consequences for the decisions made by the organizers, because they are refusing to acknowledge the legitimacy of their members.

And at the end we all hold hands, right? You're not speaking from fact, you are speaking of fantasy.

It'd be nice if pro sports was like that, and as much as I wish you were right, you're not. Fans aren't members, they are customers. Simple as that. Unless it's the Green Bay Packers.

If it wasn't an internal process, then they would've had voting, and would've taken fan input. They didn't.

[olivier in france]

I have serious doubts about the "huge sales" they made with the slug logo. I've not been lucky enough to see any Sabres games in Buffalo last year but i saw them a lot of times on TV and the stands were full of old classic jerseys and "goat" red and black while the slug was nowhere to be found...

I'm a Sabres fans for 20 years, i've never bought any red and black merchandise and will never buy any slugthing. The only logo i know is the classic one.

[daschuck77]

I have serious doubts about the "huge sales" they made with the slug logo. I've not been lucky enough to see any Sabres games in Buffalo last year but i saw them a lot of times on TV and the stands were full of old classic jerseys and "goat" red and black while the slug was nowhere to be found...

I'm a Sabres fans for 20 years, i've never bought any red and black merchandise and will never buy any slugthing. The only logo i know is the classic one.

The fact Bettman mentioned was that Sabres' sales were up 900% over the teams previous year's sales. Those sales were also coupled with the vintage alternate as well...they never made ANY distinction. I'm sure 900% is easy to achieve, they were already wearing the black and red for 10 years...I'm by then people had all the merchandise they were ever going to buy.

Hmmmm, let's see how Tampa Bay does with their new look, which they have been stuck with forever. I'll say their sales jump at least 500% . Wow...it sounds really impressive. I can only imagine the legions of people pre-ordering a Bruins jersey...that thing is fantastic. And I'll guess will go up about 1.21 gigawats in sales.

The slug WAS the number 1 jersey in the NHL...I seriously doubt that trend will continue into 2007-2008. All you had new was the Sabres and Ducks...It spiked demand a lot between loyal fans and die hard collectors. With all teams unveiling Edge jerseys, less buzz around the team without Drury and Briere, and no vintage third available as well, Sales will drop off substantially...of course unless they go 36-0-5 through to the all-star break.

And as customers eSabre, people should be furious that most Christmas orders were not fufilled on time and that people out there are still waiting on backorder for their stuff. It's bushleague.

John's comments echo exactly how I feel about the current logo..."Rather, you hear the jokes cracked round the sports world. Even the supporters of it, call it a slug. And why should fans accept that? If its not what they want for THEIR team ... they shouldn't accept with degrees of dissatisfaction."

Look on this board...most folks feel Buffalo has the worst looking uniforms in pro sports.

And that's all naysayers can say..."Ive grown to live with it", or "It's not that bad...I still like the classic though..." or "Get over it", "It's here to stay, your're not a true fan." These one liners are unimaginative and are not acceptable responses to the discussion or arguement. Explain why you have grown to live with it, why it's not bad, and why I should get over it, and why I'm not a "true fan" if you felt like you had to repsond.

[BB61]

Because we're tired of listening to you (in general, not personally) whining about a stupid logo. Yes, I realize it's a logo board, and we're here to discuss logos, but here it is a year after the fact, and we're still on the logo.

The team has more important things to worry about. Like, y'know, not bombing out in the playoffs every year (like the Flyers do, I know, but this isn't a "ditch the P-wing" thread).

It's old hat, it's old news, and honestly, once the fervor of something like this dies down, the attention should turn to how they're playing, not what they're wearing.

Man, I liked Sabres fans more when they were crying about Brett Hull's skate.