Vick indicted

[DEAD!]

Starting at Quarterback for the Atlanta Falcons #13 Joey Harrington.

That is scaring me to death right now. I mean, the Vick thing is horrible, but JOEY HARRINGTON AS STARTING QB makes things worse, IMO.

In defense of Vick ON THE FIELD, without him we were successful probably once every couple years every decade. And coming to think of it...dammit, it was the same. We were successful for a couple of years with Vick, and now it's gone down the :censored:ter. So, assuming Vick gets the conviction and is gone forever, and Joe Harrington is the starter, that's still freakin' scary.

.... oh yeah? Just watch Joey Harrington throw for 4,000+ yards this season

[Jigga]

I guess it's really going to be funny when he gets off for this. Let's wait and see what happens. mmmkay????

Of course he's going to get off for it. You have to be an idiot to think otherwise. The thing he won't get off with is the inevitable punishment he'll receive from Goodell.

It depends. If he cops to a misdemeanor, then he'll get a Ray Lewis/Jamal Lewis type of suspension, meaning 2-4 games, and that would be perfectly justified. If the charges are dropped or Vick goes to trial and is found not guilty on both counts, he won't be suspended at all...and that would be perfectly justified as well.

[STL FANATIC]

I guess it's really going to be funny when he gets off for this. Let's wait and see what happens. mmmkay????

Of course he's going to get off for it. You have to be an idiot to think otherwise. The thing he won't get off with is the inevitable punishment he'll receive from Goodell.

It depends. If he cops to a misdemeanor, then he'll get a Ray Lewis/Jamal Lewis type of suspension, meaning 2-4 games, and that would be perfectly justified. If the charges are dropped or Vick goes to trial and is found not guilty on both counts, he won't be suspended at all...and that would be perfectly justified as well.

We've got a new commissioner...

He might be gone the whole year just for being indicted.

[TFoA]

Exactly. If PacMan got suspended before he even got indicted, then Vick might as well be gone for the next 2 seasons.

[Jigga]

Exactly. If PacMan got suspended before he even got indicted, then Vick might as well be gone for the next 2 seasons.

The problem with Adam Jones (and Chris Henry) is the repeat offenses. Jones HAS indeed been indicted AND he has a litany of court dates in the next year or so. Vick's alleged offenses are heinous, but Goodell is not going to suspend Vick a year for his "first" offense when said offense has not yet been adjudicated.

I know you guys want your pound of flesh, and maybe you'll get it. I personally don't give a damn if he goes to jail or not, but let's be reasonable, at least for the time being.

[NJTank]

Yeah I have to agree with that one, Pac Man and Henry were repeat offenders and this is the first for Vick, so if he does cop a plea and owns up to it he will get a suspension but I don't think it will be more then 2-4 games.

[VitaminD]

Exactly. If PacMan got suspended before he even got indicted, then Vick might as well be gone for the next 2 seasons.

The problem with Adam Jones (and Chris Henry) is the repeat offenses. Jones HAS indeed been indicted AND he has a litany of court dates in the next year or so. Vick's alleged offenses are heinous, but Goodell is not going to suspend Vick a year for his "first" offense when said offense has not yet been adjudicated.

I know you guys want your pound of flesh, and maybe you'll get it. I personally don't give a damn if he goes to jail or not, but let's be reasonable, at least for the time being.

Greg, I'd love to agree with you, and my position is the same wait-and-see approach you're taking. But the new sherriff in the NFL gets all rankled over the mere appearance of wrongdoing, whether or not there are legal ramifications. Though he hasn't been convicted of anything that I can remember, the NFL has a long memory with Vick. Remember, this is the guy whose name is permanently sullied by "Ron Mexico", and made the wrong kind of headlines for the jewelry bottle that smelled like weed going through the airport. Goodell has made it abundantly clear that he wants the players making headlines for good stuff on the field and for NOTHING off of it.

To a degree, I get where Goodell's coming from. As my paychecks are ultimately drawn by the state, there's no way in hell that I'd be working the day after being pulled over for a DUI, or for having my name linked to a dogfighting ring. We lost a guy from my residency program for being part of an ongoing investigation; I don't even think he's gone to trial, but he got :censored:canned ASAP. The NFL is obviously a private enterprise, which makes Goodell's stance all the more understandable. Playing sports for a living is a privilege, not a birthright. If a few guys are going to trash the reputations of their co-workers, that privilege should be revoked, and should have to be earned back.

So while I am not sure of Vick's guilt or innocence - and honestly couldn't care less, as it has zero impact on my life beyond how it affects my NFL team's success - I'd suspect he's not going to be earning an NFL paycheck for a while.

[STL FANATIC]

Vitamin D summed my stance up pretty well.

I don't have any feelings for Vick one way or the other.

And I nearly always take the innocent until proven guilty stance and do here as well.

I just wouldn't be surprised to see Commissioner Goodell hand him a lengthy suspension. Afterall, this isn't Vick's first time putting him, his team, and the league in a negative light.

[Viper]

I've heard reports already that the Falcons might go after Dante Culpepper is Vick is suspended or anything. Not sure how that makes the folks in Atlanta feal, however.

Replacing a QB involved in dogfighting with the QB from the infamous "Love Boat" cruise? Which allegedly involved prostitutes flown in from Atlanta, no less?

Really brilliant.

[Jigga]

Exactly. If PacMan got suspended before he even got indicted, then Vick might as well be gone for the next 2 seasons.

The problem with Adam Jones (and Chris Henry) is the repeat offenses. Jones HAS indeed been indicted AND he has a litany of court dates in the next year or so. Vick's alleged offenses are heinous, but Goodell is not going to suspend Vick a year for his "first" offense when said offense has not yet been adjudicated.

I know you guys want your pound of flesh, and maybe you'll get it. I personally don't give a damn if he goes to jail or not, but let's be reasonable, at least for the time being.

Greg, I'd love to agree with you, and my position is the same wait-and-see approach you're taking. But the new sherriff in the NFL gets all rankled over the mere appearance of wrongdoing, whether or not there are legal ramifications. Though he hasn't been convicted of anything that I can remember, the NFL has a long memory with Vick. Remember, this is the guy whose name is permanently sullied by "Ron Mexico", and made the wrong kind of headlines for the jewelry bottle that smelled like weed going through the airport. Goodell has made it abundantly clear that he wants the players making headlines for good stuff on the field and for NOTHING off of it.

To a degree, I get where Goodell's coming from. As my paychecks are ultimately drawn by the state, there's no way in hell that I'd be working the day after being pulled over for a DUI, or for having my name linked to a dogfighting ring. We lost a guy from my residency program for being part of an ongoing investigation; I don't even think he's gone to trial, but he got :censored:canned ASAP. The NFL is obviously a private enterprise, which makes Goodell's stance all the more understandable. Playing sports for a living is a privilege, not a birthright. If a few guys are going to trash the reputations of their co-workers, that privilege should be revoked, and should have to be earned back.

So while I am not sure of Vick's guilt or innocence - and honestly couldn't care less, as it has zero impact on my life beyond how it affects my NFL team's success - I'd suspect he's not going to be earning an NFL paycheck for a while.

I hate this argument (though I like you). Look, you aren't a multi-million dollar entity (yet). People don't buy tickets to come watch you do your job. We cannot compare our lives and careers to pro athletes and it's pretty much a debate ender for me. I can't argue with someone who thinks they can compare what they do to what these mega rich celebrities do.

We live in a forgiving country, if Mike Vick beats these charges and then goes and leads the Falcons to the SuperBowl and leads some fantasy dorks to a couple bucks, all will be forgiven. This is the nature of the beast. Especially with football players. See Lewis, Ray and Little, Leonard among others.

I do understand your point, VD. Goodell is not playing games with these rogue players like Tags did. Goody will put the smackdown on that ass, if he sees fit. I just remember what he said about repeat offenders. The complexity of this case pretty much requires him to just sit back and see what shakes out because even the rogues are afforded due process under Goodell's brand of justice.

Being a dumbass is one thing, being a criminal is another. There are enough dumbasses in every walk of life, and damn sure in the NFL. Will Goody suspend all of them, too? Now if the Falcons want to jettison Vick before any of this comes to pass, I don't have a problem with that at all. If Vick does plead out or is convicted, I don't care if Goody sits "Ookie" down for a whole year, because the charges are absolutely disgraceful.

[rams80]

Exactly. If PacMan got suspended before he even got indicted, then Vick might as well be gone for the next 2 seasons.

The problem with Adam Jones (and Chris Henry) is the repeat offenses. Jones HAS indeed been indicted AND he has a litany of court dates in the next year or so. Vick's alleged offenses are heinous, but Goodell is not going to suspend Vick a year for his "first" offense when said offense has not yet been adjudicated.

I know you guys want your pound of flesh, and maybe you'll get it. I personally don't give a damn if he goes to jail or not, but let's be reasonable, at least for the time being.

I'm not completely sure if Vick would miss any time right now...

Reason?

The other guys suspended for "legal difficulties" were role players/non-meal-ticket guys. The franchise isn't going to take that bad a hit from losing these guys.

Michael Vick is both the Falcon's meal ticket and one of the NFL's most marketed players. That is another factor (fortunately/unfortunately) to take in to consideration.

If Goodell does drop the proverbial hammer on Vick, though...

I think the rest of the league might finally get the message.

[nyk]

I doubt he will be suspended. but I do definitly believe his days with the Atlanta Falcons are numbers, this can very well be his last season there.

[HedleyLamarr]

I guess it's really going to be funny when he gets off for this. Let's wait and see what happens. mmmkay????

Exactly.

The only thing that bothers me, is that what started out as a random drug offense has turned into a disgusting thing involving defenseless animals.

I hope like hell Vick is innocent and I'll support him as long as he is innocent, but I hope Vick faces the full extent of the law if he's proven guilty.

However, I won't pout or complain if Vick gets suspended by the NFL. Guilty or not, he could use some time to get his head out of his ass and make better decisions, both on and off the field.

[VitaminD]

I hate this argument (though I like you). Look, you aren't a multi-million dollar entity (yet). People don't buy tickets to come watch you do your job. We cannot compare our lives and careers to pro athletes and it's pretty much a debate ender for me. I can't argue with someone who thinks they can compare what they do to what these mega rich celebrities do.

I'm not comparing myself to a pro athlete, not for a second. But the comparison is this: there are jobs where you are expected to behave as a pillar of your community. In a sense, you need to be "better than human". Physicians, judges, public officials and others are supposed (can't stress that enough!) to conduct themselves in accordance with higher standards than the average member of the community where they live and work. These jobs have some great perqs to them, don't get me wrong; but with those privileges comes responsibility. People don't pay to watch me work, but they also come to me when they're sick, and expect me to be competent, courteous and thoroughly professional. Even if I can't stand 'em. Even if they don't pay me. They tell me things in confidence that I can't divulge, not even to their spouses or children. I definitely work under the auspices of a public trust that would be breached if I did any of the things these athletes have allegedly done. And that would be true were I working at a provate hospital where the state wasn't paying my salary.

And THAT'S the point Goodell is trying to impress upon the players of the NFL. His vision involves taking the league a little bit too seriously at times, but he wants his players to act like responsible members of society in exchange for the privilege of playing pro football. He realizes the legions of people who worship his players, whether they like it or not. He is aware of the status the players have in their communities as VIPs, whether they want it or not. This means holding these guys to a standard that they were not held to previously. The days of guys acting like they were above the law are coming to an end, and Goodell's mandate is to uphold the image of the NFL at all costs. I'd bet the vast majority of NFL players are decent, law abiding folks who never make a splash in the papers, but the few bad apples give everyone a bad name, and it tarnishes the league as a whole. But any player ought to be smart enough to know that if they want they gravy train to keep coming in the forms of big paychecks, name recognition and the trappings of celebrity, they have to behave like the rest of us do.

The players are the engine that drives a multi-billion dollar industry, and everyone can reap that windfall. But Goody's fear is what David Stern noticed a little too late: the money dries up if the corporate sponsors don't want anything to do with your product. His fear is that the corporate sponsors in certain markets (Nashville, Cincinnati) might start backing away from teams where antisocial behavior and criminal thoughtlessness rule, as they wouldn't want their products associated with those things. Goodell is being preemptive to avoid the mistakes that plagued the NBA, and if imposing his will severely makes people think twice about driving drunk or starting a fight and acting a fool in public, then his job is done.

[NJTank]

If what they are saying is true then Vick is pure scum, not only was he making dogs fight, but when a dog lost too much it was killed in sick ways such as electrocution.

[HedleyLamarr]

[See Red]

If what they are saying is true then Vick is pure scum, not only was he making dogs fight, but when a dog lost too much it was killed in sick ways such as electrocution.

I was watching ESPN and they were describing the ways that at least eight or so dogs were killed and it just about made me sick. Dogs were hung, drowned, and just beat against the ground if they didn't perform. Sickening.

[DEAD!]

If what they are saying is true then Vick is pure scum, not only was he making dogs fight, but when a dog lost too much it was killed in sick ways such as electrocution.

... hmmm... this could be the only time Tank and PETA agree on something

[BlueSky]

I guess it's really going to be funny when he gets off for this. Let's wait and see what happens. mmmkay????

Guilty or not, he could use some time to get his head out of his ass and make better decisions, both on and off the field.

That same statement applied in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2006. Perhaps we should accept that the man is not going to change.

I live near Atlanta and there's been an ongoing indignance among some people here about Vick being called a thug and so on. Wonder what they're saying now.

I disagree with those of you who think he'll plead to misdemeanor charges, basically skate on the legal side of it and serve a short suspension. Maybe a few years ago, but not now. The timing of this, with the focus on on-the-field behavior, is horrible for Vick. His high profile, and the charges being so sickening, is going to make things very tough for him. They may not even offer him a plea bargain, especially if they have a tight case. He may actually serve some time. As for Goodell, he's going to drop a sledgehammer on Vick.

The Falcons may also have legal grounds to terminate his contract. If so, and if the league is willing to soften the salary cap impact, he may be gone from the Falcons. In any case, my prediction is that Michael Vick is for all practical purposes finished as quarterback of the Falcons.

[jkrdevil]

Here's an ESPN article on what Vick faces legal wise. An important distinction to make from most of the other celebrity cases are that this is a federal case not a state case. The Prosecution has much more resources and Vick's chances of buying his way out of it through high priced lawyers goes down.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2940312