infrared41 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 But is he cheating if the rules of the test don't state that it's against the rules to have the answers in advance?Technically no but it's still dishonest and it's not legitimate. At the end of the day Barry Bonds knows his record isn't as legit as Aaron's and that's going to have to be good enough for everyone, myself included, that is rooting against him. Bonds has to live with it. We don't. Then, I say the guy is twice as dumb because he had the answers in advance and STILL got a 97.... He blew three questions on purpose just so he didn't raise any suspicions. I think that makes him pretty smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEAD! Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Then, I say the guy is twice as dumb because he had the answers in advance and STILL got a 97.... He blew three questions on purpose just so he didn't raise any suspicions. I think that makes him pretty smart. ah.... touche.... I saw, I came, I left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred T. Jane Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Technically no but it's still dishonest and it's not legitimate. At the end of the day Barry Bonds knows his record isn't as legit as Aaron's and that's going to have to be good enough for everyone, myself included, that is rooting against him. Bonds has to live with it. We don't.Ah, but Grasshopper it is legitimate. Until MLB discounts his career statistics (which is inevitable that they won't considering the Supertanker of Worms that that action would open), they will be legitimate because MLB recognizes them, no matter how unethical and dishonest as folks may think.As for Bonds being the only person to live with his alleged actions, I beg to differ. Considering the zeal with which the High-n-Mighties carry this particular burden, I think the wealth is being spread quite nicely. [Croatia National Team Manager Slavan] Bilic then went on to explain how Croatia's success can partially be put down to his progressive man-management techniques. "Sometimes I lie in the bed with my players. I go to the room of Vedran Corluka and Luka Modric when I see they have a problem and I lie in bed with them and we talk for 10 minutes." Maybe Capello could try getting through to his players this way too? Although how far he'd get with Joe Cole jumping up and down on the mattress and Rooney demanding to be read his favourite page from The Very Hungry Caterpillar is open to question. --The Guardian's Fiver, 08 September 2008 Attention: In order to obtain maximum enjoyment from your stay at the CCSLC, the reader is advised that the above post may contain large amounts of sarcasm, dry humour, or statements which should not be taken in any true sort of seriousness. As a result, the above poster absolves himself of any and all blame in the event that a forum user responds to the aforementioned post without taking the previous notice into account. Thank you for your cooperation, and enjoy your stay at the CCSLC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infrared41 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Technically no but it's still dishonest and it's not legitimate. At the end of the day Barry Bonds knows his record isn't as legit as Aaron's and that's going to have to be good enough for everyone, myself included, that is rooting against him. Bonds has to live with it. We don't.Ah, but Grasshopper it is legitimate. Until MLB discounts his career statistics (which is inevitable that they won't considering the Supertanker of Worms that that action would open), they will be legitimate because MLB recognizes them, no matter how unethical and dishonest as folks may think.As for Bonds being the only person to live with his alleged actions, I beg to differ. Considering the zeal with which the High-n-Mighties carry this particular burden, I think the wealth is being spread quite nicely.You make great points but it's a matter of semantics Fred. Again, technically Bonds' record will count but it won't be recognized as legitimate by a good number of fans, players, writers, MLB execs, etc. So yes Barry will end up hitting more HRs than anyone in MLB history but all that means is that he'll be at the top of a statistical list and not much else. I would think that a ballplayer would want it to mean more than that. Barry Bonds will have to live with the fact that almost no one takes his record seriously. He'll also have to live with the fact that he knows he cheated to get it. And that's good enough for me.I imagine you'd feel the same way if some hallowed soccer record like who ran up and down the field the most times in a career was about to fall and you knew the guy breaking it had cheated to get the record. I think you'd be against it regardless of whether or not his cheating was "technically" legal. Then again, does soccer even have records? (sorry couldn't resist. )The sad thing is that had he stayed clean in this era Bonds likely would have gone down in history as the greatest player ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred T. Jane Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 You make great points but it's a matter of semantics Fred. Again, technically Bonds' record will count but it won't be recognized as legitimate by a good number of fans, players, writers, MLB execs, etc. So yes Barry will end up hitting more HRs than anyone in MLB history but all that means is that he'll be at the top of a statistical list and not much else. I would think that a ballplayer would want it to mean more than that. Barry Bonds will have to live with the fact that almost no one takes his record seriously. He'll also have to live with the fact that he knows he cheated to get it. And that's good enough for me.But the problem is that the complexity of the Bonds situation makes semantics that much of a difference. Normally, when person A does unethical action B, it's most of the time against the rules in rulebook C. In that case, unethical, dishonest, and illegitimate are all interchangeable. However, since the alleged use by Bonds took place when it wasn't illegal, you can't use illegitimate since they were, well, legitimate, no matter how unethical they allegedly were.I imagine you'd feel the same way if some hallowed soccer record like who ran up and down the field the most times in a career was about to fall and you knew the guy breaking it had cheated to get the record. I think you'd be against it regardless of whether or not his cheating was "technically" legal. Then again, does soccer even have records? (sorry couldn't resist. )Dunno, performance enhancing drugs is illegal in soccer/football, but their advantage is so marginalized that you can't even have the arguments vis-a-vis performance-enhancing drugs and hitting home runs. Now, player eligibility? Well we're getting somewhere. Google Carlos Tevez and West Ham United and tell me what you think. [Croatia National Team Manager Slavan] Bilic then went on to explain how Croatia's success can partially be put down to his progressive man-management techniques. "Sometimes I lie in the bed with my players. I go to the room of Vedran Corluka and Luka Modric when I see they have a problem and I lie in bed with them and we talk for 10 minutes." Maybe Capello could try getting through to his players this way too? Although how far he'd get with Joe Cole jumping up and down on the mattress and Rooney demanding to be read his favourite page from The Very Hungry Caterpillar is open to question. --The Guardian's Fiver, 08 September 2008 Attention: In order to obtain maximum enjoyment from your stay at the CCSLC, the reader is advised that the above post may contain large amounts of sarcasm, dry humour, or statements which should not be taken in any true sort of seriousness. As a result, the above poster absolves himself of any and all blame in the event that a forum user responds to the aforementioned post without taking the previous notice into account. Thank you for your cooperation, and enjoy your stay at the CCSLC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL FANATIC Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 How right on has Canseco been proven to be?I thought only Palmeiro tested positive, and people have just decided that Sosa, Mac, etc. have definitely done them.But I also never read his book, so I don't know. JUSTIN STRIEBEL | PORTFOLIO | RESUME | CONTACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC97 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 How right on has Canseco been proven to be?I thought only Palmeiro tested positive, and people have just decided that Sosa, Mac, etc. have definitely done them.But I also never read his book, so I don't know.He also mentioned Giambi (i think? he must have!), and Tejada (oddly enough, the man Palmeiro blamed when he was caught) --- Chris Creamer Founder/Editor, SportsLogos.Net "The Mothership" • News • Facebook • X/Twitter • Instagram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
averyj Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 I think that the A-Rod thing will most likely be a character attack (cheating on his wife, etc) although I'm not sure where Canseco will be getting his information as he never played with A-Rod.Maybe he slept with A-RodYou mean more balls have bounced on Canseco's head? You know, I rarely visit ccslsc anymore. I really should fix that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfen29 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 I think that the A-Rod thing will most likely be a character attack (cheating on his wife, etc) although I'm not sure where Canseco will be getting his information as he never played with A-Rod.Maybe he slept with A-RodYou mean more balls have bounced on Canseco's head?They didn't reach that far due to one of the side-effects of the steroid use... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epiphanic Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 It's been a game of cheaters as long as they've been playing it.That's a weak argument.Just because there are cheaters in the game doesn't mean that we should condone cheating (or at the very least not penalize it). Sport is something that should be a testament to human physical acheivement. Not some crass entertainment value that the "winners" simply had the best designer drugs. Cheating to break a record, delegitimizes the record. 755 is a magical number. 756* is just a number.There's always been cheaters.--Bah!--To bring an analogy to the message board that's like saying, "There's always been spammers." Since we can't prevent spammers perfectly, we might as well say, "Screw it. More power to them." "In the arena of logic, I fight unarmed."I tweet & tumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infrared41 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 But the problem is that the complexity of the Bonds situation makes semantics that much of a difference. Normally, when person A does unethical action B, it's most of the time against the rules in rulebook C. In that case, unethical, dishonest, and illegitimate are all interchangeable. However, since the alleged use by Bonds took place when it wasn't illegal, you can't use illegitimate since they were, well, legitimate, no matter how unethical they allegedly were.Murder isn't illegal in baseball either. If Bonds kills someone to break the record will it be legitimate simply because baseball doesn't have a rule on the books prohibiting murder? Steroids unless prescribed by a doctor are illegal period. The fact that baseball didn't have a rule against the use of steroids doesn't make them "legal" as long as they're used within the confines of the game. If that were the case then Bonds could have simply invoked the "I play in the majors where steroids are legal" defense and walked out on the grand jury. It's not as if ballplayers have diplomatic immunity or something. Bonds told the grand jury that he had taken "the clear and the cream." The fact that he claims he didn't know what they were doesn't change the fact that he used them. Ignorance of the law isn't a defense. Bonds broke the law in the process of breaking the record. The record won't be legitimate because Bonds didn't, according to the definition of legitimate, "conform to the law or rules." Baseball isn't above the law like the NFL is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sodboy13 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 A-Rod Berry Berry bad person take up two parking spaces.Is that "Bad Stuff 'Bout The Mets" by Chico Escuela?If it is, good show, sir. On 1/25/2013 at 1:53 PM, 'Atom said: For all the bird de lis haters I think the bird de lis isnt supposed to be a pelican and a fleur de lis I think its just a fleur de lis with a pelicans head. Thats what it looks like to me. Also the flair around the tip of the beak is just flair that fleur de lis have sometimes source I am from NOLA. PotD: 10/19/07, 08/25/08, 07/22/10, 08/13/10, 04/15/11, 05/19/11, 01/02/12, and 01/05/12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jigga Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 I think that the A-Rod thing will most likely be a character attack (cheating on his wife, etc) although I'm not sure where Canseco will be getting his information as he never played with A-Rod.Maybe he slept with A-RodYou mean more balls have bounced on Canseco's head?Well played, young man. I almost stained a dress a shirt when I read this! I couldn't contain my beverage. Thank God I was drinking water. On January 16, 2013 at 3:49 PM, NJTank said: Btw this is old hat for Notre Dame. Knits Rockne made up George Tip's death bed speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJTank Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 A-Rod Berry Berry bad person take up two parking spaces.Is that "Bad Stuff 'Bout The Mets" by Chico Escuela?If it is, good show, sir.Indeed it is www.sportsecyclopedia.com For the best in sports history go to the Sports E-Cyclopedia at http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HatManTC Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 SosaI for one think Sosa is a huge cheater. especially after the corked bat incident. any baseball player or fan can tell you how anal ball players are when it comes to their bats. he knew from the moment he picked that particular bat up what he was doing. if he wasn't the latin american embasistor for the MLB he would have been run from baseball. so that half ass excuse, that it was a BP bat and he only used it to show off with doesn't cut it for me, it sounds like a spin guy from the MLB made it up for Sammy so he didn't come off as a bad guy.as for Bond being on 'roids. maybe he is, maybe he's not. but it is possible to get pretty big when you get older. look at Wesley Snipes in Major League then look at him in Blade. until its poven he cheated, his record holds just as much legitimatcy as Aaron's record does, to me anyways. plus I say a think on he his approach to training for batting seems pretty intense. by RoscoeUA by gingerbreadman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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