US State and National Flags

[winghaz]

That proposed Nevada flag is really sweet. Fantastic use of simplicity, symbolism and color.

I hate to admit it, but for state flags, my favorite is Texas. I hate to praise anything that is Texan, but it is a great flag and Texans use it in many, many ways. It's something worth taking pride in. I'm a North Dakotan and I love my state, but I wish we had an uncluttered state flag, one that would stand out from the rest, and just say "North Dakota" to the rest of the world, the way Texas' state flag does.

For national flags, you can't beat Old Glory. Well, maybe you can see aesthetically better flags, but when you combine aesthetics with symbolism, and what the American flag means to us, you can't beat it at all.

Or, as John Philip Sousa wrote in the lyrics to "The Stars and Stripes Forever":

Other nations may deem their flags the best

And cheer them with fervid elation

But the flag of the North and South and West

Is the flag of flags, the flag of Freedom's nation.

[IceCap]

The stars and stripes is a nice mix of aesthetics and symbolism, but I think the Union Jack also excels in both categories.

[winghaz]

The Union Jack is great. But it doesn't say "Freedom" or "Liberty" the way Old Glory does. No other flag can.

Hurrah for the flag of the free.

May it wave as our standard forever.

The gem of the land and the sea,

The banner of the right.

Let despots remember the day

When our fathers with mighty endeavor

Proclaimed as they marched to the fray,

That by their might and by their right

It waves forever.

[-kj]

No other flag can.

You can't really be serious with that bit, eh?

[IceCap]

The Union Jack is great. But it doesn't say "Freedom" or "Liberty" the way Old Glory does. No other flag can.

Really. So neither the Magna Carta and the English Bill of Rights says "freedom." Never mind that without those documents the founding fathers of America wouldn't have had the ideological background necessary to craft your Declaration of Independence or Constitution. Heck, your revolution started because the American colonists thought the liberties afforded to them as British subjects were being infringed upon.

How about the Canadian flag with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. How about the French tricolour with the Declaration of the Rights of Man and the motto "liberty, equality, fraternity." Or heck, the UN flag and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Yes, the US flag stands for great ideals, but it's far from the only flag in the world to represent those ideals.

[Gazzzaf]

Australia

The Australian flag is hit or miss down under, I'm not a fan of it myself. I made a concept up a couple of years back

[IronChefShark]

Politics aside, a "national flag" with a union jack canton is so unimaginative. Australia and New Zealand are nations that deserve thier own distinctive flags to identify them.

The same can be said for a US state, Hawaii. Although the current design with the union jack canton was indeed commissioned by King Kahmeamea himself, like New Zealand and Australia, Hawaii deserves a more distictive, iconic look to its flag.

[illwauk]

The Australian flag is hit or miss down under, I'm not a fan of it myself. I made a concept up a couple of years back

I only sort of get what you're going for here. What is the significance of the single star, colors, etc?

[Gothamite]

Hawaii deserves a more distictive, iconic look to its flag.

I'm not sure that it's possible to have a more "distinctive" flag than Hawaii has.

Say what you will, but that sucker is distinctive.

I love the proposed Nevada flag. Great colors, simple and bold design.

[rainmaker17]

That proposed Nevada flag is really sweet. Fantastic use of simplicity, symbolism and color.

I hate to admit it, but for state flags, my favorite is Texas. I hate to praise anything that is Texan, but it is a great flag and Texans use it in many, many ways. It's something worth taking pride in. I'm a North Dakotan and I love my state, but I wish we had an uncluttered state flag, one that would stand out from the rest, and just say "North Dakota" to the rest of the world, the way Texas' state flag does.

Thanks, and up yours

[Gazzzaf]

I only sort of get what you're going for here. What is the significance of the single star, colors, etc?

The single star is the federation star, it has seven points for its states and territories (6 points for 6 states and one point for the two territories). Red/white/blue generally aren't seen as Australian colours, only tying in with the flag. Green and gold are what Australians generally associate with as national colours and originally the national colours were blue and gold. I wanted to distance the design from the multitude of flags with R/W/B and a union jack. This poster sums it up pretty well.

[IceCap]

I only sort of get what you're going for here. What is the significance of the single star, colors, etc?

The single star is the federation star, it has seven points for its states and territories (6 points for 6 states and one point for the two territories). Red/white/blue generally aren't seen as Australian colours, only tying in with the flag. Green and gold are what Australians generally associate with as national colours and originally the national colours were blue and gold. I wanted to distance the design from the multitude of flags with R/W/B and a union jack. This poster sums it up pretty well.

Funnily enough, polls seem to indicate that even among Ausies who want a new flag, there isn't much support for a flag that incorporates the official national colours of blue, green, and gold. All the most popular Australian flag proposals I've seen are either red, white, and blue, blue and white, or red, black, yellow, white, and blue.

There's precedent for flags that don't feature national colours. Blue is a pretty significant national colour for Italy, but it's nowhere to be found on the current flag, and green is a popular colour for Germany, but again, no where on the flag.

This chart's flawed. Most of those flags are flags of British colonies (where use of the Union Jack is to be expected), flags of states within Australia itself, flags of Canadian provinces, in one instance a flag of a state within the United States, or the British Royal Naval Reserve (where, again, use of the Union Jack is to be expected). Only four of the flags on the list are national flags, Australia, Fiji, New Zealand, and Tuvalu (# 2, 9, 21, and 26).

Tuvalu actually adopted a flag without the Union Jack in 1996, but it proved to be so unpopular that they went back to the version with the Union Jack in 1997. The current flag of Tuvalu and the flag of Fiji are the only two national flags that use the sky blue British ensign as their base. One uses their country's coat of arms, the other features nine golden stars. So no room for confusion there. The sky blue colour means they cannot be mistaken for the Australian flag (unless you leave your Australian flag out in the sun for to long, I guess).

The only national flag that can be confused with the Australian flag is the flag of New Zealand, which I understand would be a sore spot for the two countries. Still, the star patterns are distinct enough.

Really, I find "change the flag it has a Union Jack in it!" to be a rather knee-jerkish reaction. I love the Canadian flag, but when you factor in symbolism along with aesthetics the old red ensign seems like a superior banner.

[Gazzzaf]

Funnily enough, polls seem to indicate that even among Ausies who want a new flag, there isn't much support for a flag that incorporates the official national colours of blue, green, and gold. All the most popular Australian flag proposals I've seen are either red, white, and blue, blue and white, or red, black, yellow, white, and blue.

There's precedent for flags that don't feature national colours. Blue is a pretty significant national colour for Italy, but it's nowhere to be found on the current flag, and green is a popular colour for Germany, but again, no where on the flag.

I was basing my views on anecdotal evidence regarding colours. One of the common reasons I've heard is that the green and gold flags that have been proposed in the past (particularly due to the lighter shade of green used) look like souvenir tea towels.

This chart's flawed. Most of those flags are flags of British colonies (where use of the Union Jack is to be expected), flags of states within Australia itself, flags of Canadian provinces, in one instance a flag of a state within the United States, or the British Royal Naval Reserve (where, again, use of the Union Jack is to be expected). Only four of the flags on the list are national flags, Australia, Fiji, New Zealand, and Tuvalu (# 2, 9, 21, and 26).

Tuvalu actually adopted a flag without the Union Jack in 1996, but it proved to be so unpopular that they went back to the version with the Union Jack in 1997. The current flag of Tuvalu and the flag of Fiji are the only two national flags that use the sky blue British ensign as their base. One uses their country's coat of arms, the other features nine golden stars. So no room for confusion there. The sky blue colour means they cannot be mistaken for the Australian flag (unless you leave your Australian flag out in the sun for to long, I guess).

Fair enough, however for a country as prevalent in the world today their flag sure looks like a lot of others (national flags or otherwise). Is it not a good argument to want to differentiate from the masses?

The only national flag that can be confused with the Australian flag is the flag of New Zealand, which I understand would be a sore spot for the two countries. Still, the star patterns are distinct enough.

I can't find a picture but on flagpoles side by side they can be easily confused.

Really, I find "change the flag it has a Union Jack in it!" to be a rather knee-jerkish reaction. I love the Canadian flag, but when you factor in symbolism along with aesthetics the old red ensign seems like a superior banner.

IMPERIALIST! Seriously though, the union jack is a symbol of British colonialism. Since Australia is not a British colony it should not bear their symbolism, as is the case with Canada, India and South Africa.

[IceCap]

This chart's flawed. Most of those flags are flags of British colonies (where use of the Union Jack is to be expected), flags of states within Australia itself, flags of Canadian provinces, in one instance a flag of a state within the United States, or the British Royal Naval Reserve (where, again, use of the Union Jack is to be expected). Only four of the flags on the list are national flags, Australia, Fiji, New Zealand, and Tuvalu (# 2, 9, 21, and 26).

Tuvalu actually adopted a flag without the Union Jack in 1996, but it proved to be so unpopular that they went back to the version with the Union Jack in 1997. The current flag of Tuvalu and the flag of Fiji are the only two national flags that use the sky blue British ensign as their base. One uses their country's coat of arms, the other features nine golden stars. So no room for confusion there. The sky blue colour means they cannot be mistaken for the Australian flag (unless you leave your Australian flag out in the sun for to long, I guess).

Fair enough, however for a country as prevalent in the world today their flag sure looks like a lot of others (national flags or otherwise). Is it not a good argument to want to differentiate from the masses?

Well the problem is that there isn't a "masses" to stand out from. You can't really compare national flags to state or provincial or colonial flags. The flag of the Cook Islands, for example, will never fly side by side with the Australian flag, so there's really no room to confuse the two.

I get that there are legitimate reasons to want a distinct Australian flag, but "the current flag looks like all of these other flags" isn't one of them.

The only national flag that can be confused with the Australian flag is the flag of New Zealand, which I understand would be a sore spot for the two countries. Still, the star patterns are distinct enough.

I can't find a picture but on flagpoles side by side they can be easily confused.

Fair enough.

Though (and I say this jokingly) had Australia gone with the superior red version of their flag there wouldn't be a problem, now would there?

Really, I find "change the flag it has a Union Jack in it!" to be a rather knee-jerkish reaction. I love the Canadian flag, but when you factor in symbolism along with aesthetics the old red ensign seems like a superior banner.

IMPERIALIST! Seriously though, the union jack is a symbol of British colonialism. Since Australia is not a British colony it should not bear their symbolism, as is the case with Canada, India and South Africa.

Well Australia and Canada kind of fall into a different set of "former British colony" then India and South Africa.

I'm no imperialist (I understand you were kidding, no worries) but I like the nod to our heritage present in the flags that contain the Union Jacks.

I'm speaking from a Canadian point of view, so I understand that it doesn't apply to Australia, but given our history with the United States along our southern border, I like the idea of a Union Jack in our flag to emphasize the historical divide between us and the grand republic to the south.

[Gazzzaf]

Well Australia and Canada kind of fall into a different set of "former British colony" then India and South Africa.

The terms of British departure were a little more amicable I suppose.

Fair enough. Though (and I say this jokingly) had Australia gone with the superior red version of their flag there wouldn't be a problem, now would there?

I'd still be arguing the union jack point but not the similarity to NZ.

I'm no imperialist (I understand you were kidding, no worries) but I like the nod to our heritage present in the flags that contain the Union Jacks.

I'm speaking from a Canadian point of view, so I understand that it doesn't apply to Australia, but given our history with the United States along our southern border, I like the idea of a Union Jack in our flag to emphasize the historical divide between us and the grand republic to the south.

Makes sense in Canada's case. What doesn't make sense is to give two neighbouring countries strikingly similar flags. Its like naming Iran's neighbour lets say...Iraq?

[IceCap]

Well Australia and Canada kind of fall into a different set of "former British colony" then India and South Africa.

The terms of British departure were a little more amicable I suppose.

Well the Statute of Westminster basically said "ok the dominions are all now independent in their own right."

South Africa left the Commonwealth completely because everyone else was ready to kick them out over their adoption of apartheid and India....well we all know how that went down.

I'm no imperialist (I understand you were kidding, no worries) but I like the nod to our heritage present in the flags that contain the Union Jacks.

I'm speaking from a Canadian point of view, so I understand that it doesn't apply to Australia, but given our history with the United States along our southern border, I like the idea of a Union Jack in our flag to emphasize the historical divide between us and the grand republic to the south.

Makes sense in Canada's case. What doesn't make sense is to give two neighbouring countries strikingly similar flags. Its like naming Iran's neighbour lets say...Iraq?

A lot of countries in the Middle East and Africa have similar flags, due to the wide spread use of pan-Arab and pan-African colours.

[DaRadniz29]

Australia

The Australian flag is hit or miss down under, I'm not a fan of it myself. I made a concept up a couple of years back

Firstly - Gazzzaf: what program/design template did you use to create the Australia concept flag? Or did you just and a fabric effect to it? I ask b/c I'm creating flags for the countries in my fantasy/adventure novel and would love to use that template to get them have a more 3D effect.

I'll post my favorites in a bit

[winghaz]

I can understand Australians wanting a new flag, one without the Union Jack. But I just don't perceive a new Australian flag being better than the current one. It's a beautiful flag, and it totally says Australia, even though it has the Union Jack and even though the New Zealand flag is a bit similar.

The only way I can see it being done is to just have something similar to the current flag, only without the Union Jack and with bigger stars. But it wouldn't be as nice as the current one.

[maz]

It is extremely plain, but for some reason, I love the Netherlands' flag:

Other favorites:

[IronChefShark]

Hawaii deserves a more distictive, iconic look to its flag.

I'm not sure that it's possible to have a more "distinctive" flag than Hawaii has.

Say what you will, but that sucker is distinctive.

You're wrong.....again (big surprise there)

A union jack canton is not "distinctive" regardless of what striping pattern or whatnot is in the field.

I prefer the "native Hawaiian" flag, as it is called

Distinctive colors amongst the US states, and gets the message across.