Milo Meningocele Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 I'm not feeling this one as much as everyone else seems to be. While the patterns are nice all the way around, each of the logos seem kind of generic to me. The primary crest in particular (while nicely rendered) evokes something Eastern European to me, and that can't be good for a team in the U.S. capitol--maybe move away from the red star? I'd also lighten/brighten the gold, and rethink the blue alt--even though it's an alt, it strays too far from the main set for my taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVP Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Fantastic... I'd seriously shell out money to get that blue alternate. I actually like the tertiary best, then the secondary, then the primary... but all 3 are awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capsfan1000 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 I'm not feeling this one as much as everyone else seems to be. While the patterns are nice all the way around, each of the logos seem kind of generic to me. The primary crest in particular (while nicely rendered) evokes something Eastern European to me, and that can't be good for a team in the U.S. capitol--maybe move away from the red star? I'd also lighten/brighten the gold, and rethink the blue alt--even though it's an alt, it strays too far from the main set for my taste.I agree with this. They aren't the Washington Eagles, yes i know that its hard to draw a "Capital", but the logo doesn't reflect any part of washington or the caps in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 I agree, the logos don't say 'Washington Capitals' to me. The logo doesn't match the jersey, just looking at it, if you put the current logo they have it would look better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowBoutThemFins Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 thats pretty sweet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GFB Posted November 12, 2007 Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 Let me make sure I understand your argument: you are saying that a generic wordmark with a hockey stick is more descriptive of our nation's capital than a star and a bald eagle, two of the biggest national symbols out there. If that is the case I would disagree with you 100%.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewharrington Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 That little spike underneath the beak is adding a ton of unneeded tension, and I think the Capitol building rendering could be better, but besides that, this is pretty good. I still don't have a website, but I have a dribbble now! http://dribbble.com/andyharry [The postings on this site are my own and do not necessarily represent the position, strategy or opinions of adidas and/or its brands.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milo Meningocele Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 I'm not sure if you're addressing me, or all of the C&C collectively; but I'm personally not arguing against the use of eagles, stars and capitol buildings in general. It's the team nickname that's the problem, it makes a potential identity so limiting that you have to use that imagery. It's just the particular way the logos are rendered that seems generic to me, like I've seen them all, or something very similar to them before. They're all better than I could produce myself, but they just seem kind of plain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capsfan1000 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Let me make sure I understand your argument: you are saying that a generic wordmark with a hockey stick is more descriptive of our nation's capital than a star and a bald eagle, two of the biggest national symbols out there. If that is the case I would disagree with you 100%....First off I hate the assumption that a team from DC needs to have a bunch of imigary about national symbols like the star and bald eagle, was you said. Its not the United States of America Capitals, its the Washington Capitals and last time I checked I have only seen a bald eagle in dc at the zoo. As for the star the only conncetion i see is with the DC flag, which the Caps new logo does include. And while I will give you that the old wordmark logo was generic, it became a symbol for the caps. And the new one relfects on that symbol and thus represents Washington hockey better then some random severed eagle head staring at me. I know its hard to draw up a logo of a "capital" but you could try something more representative of DC, not of the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Let me make sure I understand your argument: you are saying that a generic wordmark with a hockey stick is more descriptive of our nation's capital than a star and a bald eagle, two of the biggest national symbols out there. If that is the case I would disagree with you 100%....First off I hate the assumption that a team from DC needs to have a bunch of imigary about national symbols like the star and bald eagle, was you said. Its not the United States of America Capitals, its the Washington Capitals and last time I checked I have only seen a bald eagle in dc at the zoo. As for the star the only conncetion i see is with the DC flag, which the Caps new logo does include. And while I will give you that the old wordmark logo was generic, it became a symbol for the caps. And the new one relfects on that symbol and thus represents Washington hockey better then some random severed eagle head staring at me. I know its hard to draw up a logo of a "capital" but you could try something more representative of DC, not of the USA.what would you suggest? a big capitol building with stars on it, with a wordmark? that would be preposterous! how about a big dollar bill to represent the mass amount of money created in the city or thats pissed away by the govt? how about a huge gun representing the increasing acts of violence committed in the District. i think the eagle works just fine, the vintage wordmark is way too generic and was obviously created in a rush when the team was created in '74. face it, what symbolizes DC is the great symbols of the country, since it is the Nations Capital and all. "I don't understand where you got this idea so deeply ingrained in your head (that this world) is something that you must impress, cause I couldn't care less"http://keepdcunited.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capsfan1000 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Let me make sure I understand your argument: you are saying that a generic wordmark with a hockey stick is more descriptive of our nation's capital than a star and a bald eagle, two of the biggest national symbols out there. If that is the case I would disagree with you 100%....First off I hate the assumption that a team from DC needs to have a bunch of imigary about national symbols like the star and bald eagle, was you said. Its not the United States of America Capitals, its the Washington Capitals and last time I checked I have only seen a bald eagle in dc at the zoo. As for the star the only conncetion i see is with the DC flag, which the Caps new logo does include. And while I will give you that the old wordmark logo was generic, it became a symbol for the caps. And the new one relfects on that symbol and thus represents Washington hockey better then some random severed eagle head staring at me. I know its hard to draw up a logo of a "capital" but you could try something more representative of DC, not of the USA.what would you suggest? a big capitol building with stars on it, with a wordmark? that would be preposterous! how about a big dollar bill to represent the mass amount of money created in the city or thats pissed away by the govt? how about a huge gun representing the increasing acts of violence committed in the District. i think the eagle works just fine, the vintage wordmark is way too generic and was obviously created in a rush when the team was created in '74. face it, what symbolizes DC is the great symbols of the country, since it is the Nations Capital and all.What I'm saying is that Washington is its own city. and that should be represented, not that it is the capital. I don't see Ottawa wearing red and white with a Beaver and maple leaf on their jersey. And yet I swore that Ottawa was Canada's capital. For that matter shouldn't Colorado have Blue, white, yellow, and red and a C (see colorado's flag) and a Lark Bunting (bird of colorado) on their jersey? In fact the bird of DC is not the eagle, but the Wood Thrush. A vintage wordmark, no matter how generic, eventually becomes at some point associated with the team. For example, take the Islanders logo. I personally think it is way to cluttered and looks god awful. However there fans have had that logo since the team was founded and wanted that logo for their team becuase when you think of the islanders you think of that logo. I feel the same way about the capitals "generic" word mark. That is part of the team's identity. I'll admit that I cant remember when the capitals wore their old red, white, and blue but I have seen the old clips and I understand why many people would associate the caps with the word mark. They basicly kept the same gerneric wordmark while modernizing it so that people and people can again associate the logo with the caps. I spent a good portion of my life living in DC and now live in the close suberbs and when I think of DC I don't think of the "nations capital", i think of a city that has an entire life beyond that. And two things for GhettoFarmBoy, I have to agree that the logos do not match the jerseys. And it also annoys me that the eagle seems to have had its body cut off from its head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GFB Posted November 13, 2007 Author Share Posted November 13, 2007 What I'm saying is that Washington is its own city. and that should be represented, not that it is the capital. I don't see Ottawa wearing red and white with a Beaver and maple leaf on their jersey. And yet I swore that Ottawa was Canada's capital. For that matter shouldn't Colorado have Blue, white, yellow, and red and a C (see colorado's flag) and a Lark Bunting (bird of colorado) on their jersey? In fact the bird of DC is not the eagle, but the Wood Thrush. A vintage wordmark, no matter how generic, eventually becomes at some point associated with the team. For example, take the Islanders logo. I personally think it is way to cluttered and looks god awful. However there fans have had that logo since the team was founded and wanted that logo for their team becuase when you think of the islanders you think of that logo. I feel the same way about the capitals "generic" word mark. That is part of the team's identity. I'll admit that I cant remember when the capitals wore their old red, white, and blue but I have seen the old clips and I understand why many people would associate the caps with the word mark. They basicly kept the same gerneric wordmark while modernizing it so that people and people can again associate the logo with the caps. I spent a good portion of my life living in DC and now live in the close suberbs and when I think of DC I don't think of the "nations capital", i think of a city that has an entire life beyond that. And two things for GhettoFarmBoy, I have to agree that the logos do not match the jerseys. And it also annoys me that the eagle seems to have had its body cut off from its head.Your Ottawa and Colorado comparisons don't stand up for one reason: they aren't nicknamed the CAPITALS! If they were the Ottawa Capitals or the Colorado Capitals it would be logical for them to use your suggestions. Why not criticize the Sharks for having a shark as their logo and not a hawk.... the team isn't named the Wasington Warriors or the Washington Commanders, they are the WASHINGTON CAPITALS. Thus, using the national symbols is not only acceptable, but also the right thing to do in my mind...Now if you have some problem with the design of the logos themselves, than that's completely different.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Let me make sure I understand your argument: you are saying that a generic wordmark with a hockey stick is more descriptive of our nation's capital than a star and a bald eagle, two of the biggest national symbols out there. If that is the case I would disagree with you 100%....No i'm not saying that, the eagle and the star represent the US. I'm saying that it doesn't represent the team. Like for example, for the Vancouver Canucks, 'Canucks' means Canadians (and also represents Johnny Canuck). If they put on a big maple leaf on there sure that represents Canucks, but it won't seem right. I have no problem with how your logos are designed, they look great, i'm just saying it doesn't 'feel right' to me. I like your Capital Dome logo, but the eagle one just doesn't look right on the jersey, even if they've had a eagle on their jersey before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefooligan5 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 first of all, i absolutely love what you did with the sweater. the design is so simple yet it is like not other jersey on the ice at the moment. the colour is rich and the thin stripes add a wonderful touch so as to move to jersey away from 'plain.' they also leave the uniform without unnecessary clutter a la the detroit red wings. This is a unique direction that I would like the NHL to take. It seems with the advent of the third jersey, all the team have been trying to do too much with their jerseys and they come out looking cluttered and confused leaving the basic team design lost in the mess of stripes, ribs, splotches, panels, etc. It seems to me that you understand this concept of less is more very clearly given you series thus far and I hope to see you deviate from this only slightly if warranted. When I first looked at your logo I was pretty disappointed to be honest. After coming back here a second time with a more open mind I have given your primary logo a much better grade. I had similar comments about the 'severed eagle head' some others were mentioning but now that I see the design as a star first, with an eagle worked into the design I appreciate it much more. The expression on the eagle's face is again simple but effective. I understand what you were trying to do with the tertiary logo in making the capitol building into a star much like your primary but it seems a bit top heavy to me. Seeing as the star is your primary logo (and your tertiary) i think the capitol building is a solid enough image to stand alone without the star concept. And the use of the 'W' while making sense in the context of the team's location, I thought that since you are using the capitol building and the district of columbia is in fact the capital of the US, perhaps a D.C. would make just as much sense but would look more appealing to the casual eye. I do enjoy your wordmark and the tertiary logo is pretty good but personally I am just not a fan of the slanted star image. without personal feelings attached however, I can say that it is a good logo.All in all, I would have to say that the sweater design is absolutely perfect, the logo is solid and the only thing I would like to see altered (or see any other ideas you may have for it) would be the secondary shoulder logo. Keeping the capitol building (but without the star and W) and working it into a new design.Excellent stuff GFB and I look forward to more of your work. You will definately have to do something with the full series when it is complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bohob Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 I love it... but the secondary mark should be on the alternate jersey, just to switch it up a little. NHL 2016 by Bowen Hobbs * BOHOB's MLB Redesign Project * MiLB Re-Brands * NCAA Football Concepts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallWonk Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Let me make sure I understand your argument: you are saying that a generic wordmark with a hockey stick is more descriptive of our nation's capital than a star and a bald eagle, two of the biggest national symbols out there. If that is the case I would disagree with you 100%....First off I hate the assumption that a team from DC needs to have a bunch of imigary about national symbols like the star and bald eagle, was you said. Its not the United States of America Capitals, its the Washington Capitals and last time I checked I have only seen a bald eagle in dc at the zoo. As for the star the only conncetion i see is with the DC flag, which the Caps new logo does include. And while I will give you that the old wordmark logo was generic, it became a symbol for the caps. And the new one relfects on that symbol and thus represents Washington hockey better then some random severed eagle head staring at me. I know its hard to draw up a logo of a "capital" but you could try something more representative of DC, not of the USA.First off, not only are there wild bald eagles in DC, but local naturalists believe that the local bald eagle population is actually at or even above its carrying capacity. Which is to say, yes, there are wild bald eagles in DC and yes, there are lots of them. I live less than two miles from the DC border, and I see bald eagles all the time. If you cross the Potomac on the Yellow Line, you can often see bald eagles over the Potomac.But I do agree with your general critique. For a team named the "Capitals" to rely on generic nationalist iconography like eagle heads and big stars and whatnot is quite poor. (As is relying on the shape of a hockey stick.) I do think the previous Caps eagle logo was sufficiently localized by the choice of the very official-DC-evoking colors, but only just. In any case, I think the Capitol Dome needs to be the conceptual starting point of any Caps team identity, whether it remains an overt part of the finished logo set or not. (Which is why the subtle Eagle-W logo in the new set is so awesome.) The team's name evokes the federal character of the city, and to really capture that character an eagle or a star isn't going to do it.Plus, when you're dealing with DC sports fans, you need to ask yourself, "Could an Eagles or Cowboys fan wear this design," and if the answer isn't "absolutely not in a million years," then you've got a bad design for this market. This combination of a white eagle head with a big star certainly does not produce the desired answer to the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared222 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 First of all i wanna say that your work is amazing and i love seeing these re-branding logo sets ...That being said I am not feeling this one as much as someothers are . I like the logo , i really like the secondary logo and Wordmark . But I am just not seeing this as a Logo that would work for the Caps or the NHL in general . I just am not a fan of the eagle head being a straight on view , I think a profile or semi profile view of the eagle would look beeter and a bit more edge to its look , less is more I think ...I personally think the Caps nailed it with there new secondary logo and it they could somehow combine there current stick and star logo with the W eagle logo it would be a winnner . None the less great work as always , I really am waiting to see what you could come up with for other teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GFB Posted November 13, 2007 Author Share Posted November 13, 2007 For those who say it doesn't look right, what would you guys do so that it does look right??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suedehead Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 those are simply amazing, one of the best concept jerseys I've ever seen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefooligan5 Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 i think i've found a way to satisfy both parties to the arguement ...at the top of the capitol building in washington D.C. sits a statue called the Statue of Freedom.both an eagle and stars ...personally speaking, although I already enjoy your present design, seeing this image or part of this image or what-have-you incorporated into a design would kick booty .. obviously if it was used straight it would resemble too much the senators but i am sure someone as artistic as yourself could alter it or change the context so to make it original Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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