Jim Leyritz Charged...

[infrared41]

I look at drunk-driving on a different level than most crimes. Most people don't realize how drunk drivers are often normal everyday people who made one terrible mistake, which contrary to popular opinion, is easy to make.

You can't be serious. If I purposely stick my finger in a light socket is it a mistake? Drunk Driving is not a mistake when you know it's against the law and you know the possible consequences. People who drive drunk aren't "making an honest mistake." People who drive drunk are knowingly, willfully, and worst of all, selfishly breaking the law and hoping they don't get caught or hurt anyone while they're doing it. Period. All the sympathetic stories in the world don't change that. Sorry.

[STL FANATIC]

I'm exhausted on this issue, but I'm glad Sgoalie posted that story. I've never known anybody closely on either side of an accident, but that is a side that I really think does get overlooked. These aren't evil human beings. At worst, they're ignorant fools. Often they're good people who...I don't know what to call it...I'm gonna get crucified for calling it a mistake again, but who just don't think through their decision once.

And here's another part of it. While I more than agree with anybody who states it's the responsibility of a person to set up their own ride in advance...the whole thing is being intoxication leads to bad judgment and impairs the mind. That's why it's dangerous on the road, right? Well, by the same token, people who would soberly denounce the action very easily make the bad decision while intoxicated.

You think most drivers who are drunk really process all of this.."knowingly, willfully, and worst of all, selfishly breaking the law and hoping they don't get caught or hurt anyone while they're doing it"..before they do so? No, they grab their keys and get in the car and drive because they've got to get home (or somewhere else) and they don't doubt they can make it.

It's a terrible decision and they should prepare ahead of time and all of that.

But these people aren't murders who plan killings or intentional kill people. They're not pedophile, children predators who intentionally seek out young people to harm. These are so often every day good people who were unprepared and used really awful judgment in an intoxicated state.

To those who despise anyone who's used that judgement, please ask all your friends and family if they've ever driven drunk in their lives. Then please proceed to completely disown them and tell them how poor of a human being they are.

[averyj]

I'm exhausted on this issue, but I'm glad Sgoalie posted that story. I've never known anybody closely on either side of an accident, but that is a side that I really think does get overlooked. These aren't evil human beings. At worst, they're ignorant fools. Often they're good people who...I don't know what to call it...I'm gonna get crucified for calling it a mistake again, but who just don't think through their decision once.

And here's another part of it. While I more than agree with anybody who states it's the responsibility of a person to set up their own ride in advance...the whole thing is being intoxication leads to bad judgment and impairs the mind. That's why it's dangerous on the road, right? Well, by the same token, people who would soberly denounce the action very easily make the bad decision while intoxicated.

You think most drivers who are drunk really process all of this.."knowingly, willfully, and worst of all, selfishly breaking the law and hoping they don't get caught or hurt anyone while they're doing it"..before they do so? No, they grab their keys and get in the car and drive because they've got to get home (or somewhere else) and they don't doubt they can make it.

It's a terrible decision and they should prepare ahead of time and all of that.

But these people aren't murders who plan killings or intentional kill people. They're not pedophile, children predators who intentionally seek out young people to harm. These are so often every day good people who were unprepared and used really awful judgment in an intoxicated state.

To those who despise anyone who's used that judgement, please ask all your friends and family if they've ever driven drunk in their lives. Then please proceed to completely disown them and tell them how poor of a human being they are.

In other words, if in case, sad to say, a death does occur, the act of murder is not premeditated.

*prepares for flying objects*

[STL FANATIC]

I'm not really sure what you're saying avery. Could you rephrase?

[averyj]

No problem.

Simply, I believe that if you kill someone as a result of driving drunk, you shouldn't be charged with 1st degree murder also known as premeditated murder:

Premeditated murder is the crime of wrongfully causing the death of another human being after rationally considering the timing or method of doing so, in order to either increase the likelihood of success, or to evade detection or apprehension.

[STL FANATIC]

Oh, gotcha, thanks. I very much agree with that (as I'm sure many have realized already).

[DEAD!]

I look at drunk-driving on a different level than most crimes. Most people don't realize how drunk drivers are often normal everyday people who made one terrible mistake, which contrary to popular opinion, is easy to make.

You can't be serious. If I purposely stick my finger in a light socket is it a mistake? Drunk Driving is not a mistake when you know it's against the law and you know the possible consequences. People who drive drunk aren't "making an honest mistake." People who drive drunk are knowingly, willfully, and worst of all, selfishly breaking the law and hoping they don't get caught or hurt anyone while they're doing it. Period. All the sympathetic stories in the world don't change that. Sorry.

that got me thinking.... but if you're drunk... are you even aware that you're breaking the law?

[Jigga]

The ignorance defense doesn't really work in court.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

People are talking about this in the abstract. Haven't any of you been drunk before? It sucks when you drink more than you should have and need to get home. What do you do? Drive home and hope for the best? Or leave your car god knows where and call a cab or hope for a ride? As someone who has left his car god knows where, I know what the best choice is. I've been drunk. I've been REALLY drunk. And yet I've always known that driving drunk is a bad idea, no matter my intoxication level. You don't forget your name when you've been drinking, do you? No, just like not driving drunk is just as instinctive.

[DEAD!]

You don't forget your name when you've been drinking, do you? No, just like not driving drunk is just as instinctive.

.... but can you stand on one foot and try to place your index finger on your nose and recite the alphabet at the same time?

[infrared41]

It's a terrible decision and they should prepare ahead of time and all of that.

But these people aren't murders who plan killings or intentional kill people. They're not pedophile, children predators who intentionally seek out young people to harm. These are so often every day good people who were unprepared and used really awful judgment in an intoxicated state.

To those who despise anyone who's used that judgement, please ask all your friends and family if they've ever driven drunk in their lives. Then please proceed to completely disown them and tell them how poor of a human being they are.

1. I'm not saying they are murderers. My point is that I am not willing to see drunk driving as a simple mistake. I don't despise people who have driven drunk, I'm just not going to give them any slack for doing it. Shooting someone in a fit of rage is a "terrible decision" too but it's not like you don't know the consequences before you do it. It's not premeditated but it's still a shooting all the same.

2. Let's stick to the issue. You say drunk driving is "bad judgement", "a mistake", "a terrible decision" committed by "Every day good people" as if that somehow makes it less of a crime. How many "good every day people" have, in a moment of "poor judgement, hit their wives? Shot someone? Abused their children? Stolen? Cheated someone? I could go on and on. Crimes are committed by "good people" every day. All I am saying is that the best of intentions (or lack of any intention) from "good every day people" doesn't lessen the severity of the crime they commit.

In short, if you do the crime, no matter how good you or your intentions are, prepare to do the time. I am not cutting you any slack if you knowingly and willfully do something incredibly -ing stupid. If that makes me heartless and unforgiving, well those are just the breaks I guess.

[tp49]

No problem.

Simply, I believe that if you kill someone as a result of driving drunk, you shouldn't be charged with 1st degree murder also known as premeditated murder:

Premeditated murder is the crime of wrongfully causing the death of another human being after rationally considering the timing or method of doing so, in order to either increase the likelihood of success, or to evade detection or apprehension.

And they wouldn't be charged with first degree murder plain and simple. However, they could be charged with murder under the felony murder rule if the death occurred during the commisison of a felony. This is any felony which DUI can be in certain instances. Otherwise it would fall under manslaughter or negligent homicide if that jurisdiction allows for criminally negligent homicide.

[Fyrwulf]

STL, I wonder if you've actually ever been drunk. I have, and I can say with the utmost certainty that the first time I got drunk I knew there was no way I had the fine motor coordination needed to drive a car, much less stand upright and walk normally. That was a bit of a revelation for me and it made me despise drunk drivers all the more, because if I could make a rational decision like that while wasted out of my :censored:ing gourd, then someone else sure as could have. I lost a cousin to a hit and run by a drunk driver (who only served 30 days because the bitch said it was a "mistake"), so I really have no sympathy for drunk driving murderers (yes, I said murder) and I think they should all be lined up in front of a wall (with the obligatory offer of a cigarette and blindfold.)

[STL FANATIC]

STL, I wonder if you've actually ever been drunk. I have, and I can say with the utmost certainty that the first time I got drunk I knew there was no way I had the fine motor coordination needed to drive a car, much less stand upright and walk normally. That was a bit of a revelation for me and it made me despise drunk drivers all the more, because if I could make a rational decision like that while wasted out of my :censored:ing gourd, then someone else sure as could have. I lost a cousin to a hit and run by a drunk driver (who only served 30 days because the bitch said it was a "mistake"), so I really have no sympathy for drunk driving murderers (yes, I said murder) and I think they should all be lined up in front of a wall (with the obligatory offer of a cigarette and blindfold.)

Yes, I have. (What else would I do at the U of I...)

And I make the preparation to sleep over or get a ride home. And I agree. It shouldn't be a difficult decision.

But I've also seen plenty of people step in a car and not give it a second thought. I've also made the stupid decision to be in a car with a drunk driver (it was like 2 blocks...which makes the decision no less stupid), and I can tell you not only did they not give it a second thought, they definitely had the ability and coordination to operate the car. They drove fine.

And that's why I view it as a decision that can be rather easy to make. You said you no way had the coordination...but that's not true for a lot of people. A lot of people still maintain coordination and they have no doubts that they can drive. Sometimes they're right, sometimes they're only right for so long before it's clear their coordination and reaction time really aren't fit to drive a car. Point is, it's not obvious to everyone before they step in the car.

That's kind of why I'd like breathilizers in every car even if they don't have the connection to the starter. Because at least then there would be no excuse for someone not to know their BAC and not to have given it that extra thought before they step in the car.

As for your cousin, I'm incredibly sorry to hear about that.

But as I think is true in most situations, those who have been jaded by one side of the issue are rarely correct in their assessment of what the right punishment should be. The correct answer tends to lie in the middle.

[scottysprings]

My post wasn't intended to lessen the severity of drunk-driving. I nowhere in my post said that extended jail-time was unjust for driving under the influence or proposed a lesser punishment. My goal was just to show how unfair common conceptions of drunk drivers are as well as giving some food for thought for those who have drove drunk in the past or are in situations where there is potential for drunk driving.

DG_Now-

While I agree with many of STL?s points, me labeling him sensible was in reference to his capacity to forgive in general. I doubt you can argue against forgiveness as an indicator of moral sensibility.

?I'll probably never lose my sympthetic, forgiving feelings for just about everyone...I've got a forgiving nature?

FyrWulf-

I?m also sorry to hear about the loss of your cousin. All I can say is that his/her life was cut short due to the extremely reckless actions of another.

[NJTank]

Jim Leyritz needs to go away for along time. This is a Homicide and those poor kids now don't have a mother.

[Fyrwulf]

Fyrwulf-

I?m also sorry to hear about the loss of your cousin. All I can say is that his/her life was cut short due to the extremely reckless actions of another.

It was a long time ago, I can think about her and what happened without seeing red anymore. But, unlike others here, I'm neither forgiving nor understanding where the safety and well-being of my family is concerned. As for the reckless part, there is some question about that considering the bitch in question also pulled a hit-and-run on a deer a mile before she hit my cousin (unfortunately because the bitch was so wasted, it was impossible to establish whether malicious intent was involved.)