New NFL logo

[rams80]

I'll cover this again.... Im sure that the 6 stars of the AFL logo stand for the orginal charter members that were at the first meeting because of how it was the meeting the defining the starting of the American Football League , As for the NFC logo I can only guess and connect the dots and see what somewhat matches . It could be like someone said a little up the 3 greedy bastards that jumped for the money and went to join the 10 AFL teams to make the AFC . But I would like to know for sure .

I thought Cleveland, Baltimore, and Pittsburgh had to be ordered to shift by Rozelle.

[Mac the Knife]

I'll cover this again.... Im sure that the 6 stars of the AFL logo stand for the orginal charter members that were at the first meeting because of how it was the meeting the defining the starting of the American Football League , As for the NFC logo I can only guess and connect the dots and see what somewhat matches . It could be like someone said a little up the 3 greedy bastards that jumped for the money and went to join the 10 AFL teams to make the AFC . But I would like to know for sure .

I thought Cleveland, Baltimore, and Pittsburgh had to be ordered to shift by Rozelle.

No, not ordered. They just got paid for it - $3 million each, to be precise.

[rams80]

I'll cover this again.... Im sure that the 6 stars of the AFL logo stand for the orginal charter members that were at the first meeting because of how it was the meeting the defining the starting of the American Football League , As for the NFC logo I can only guess and connect the dots and see what somewhat matches . It could be like someone said a little up the 3 greedy bastards that jumped for the money and went to join the 10 AFL teams to make the AFC . But I would like to know for sure .

I thought Cleveland, Baltimore, and Pittsburgh had to be ordered to shift by Rozelle.

No, not ordered. They just got paid for it - $3 million each, to be precise.

So how did they decide? I've always found it curious that two of the three markets they shifted over were old AAFC markets.

[Gothamite]

IIRC, the Steelers didn't want to go, and had to be "encouraged".

To characterize any of the teams as only chasing a fast buck is misleading at best.

[Mac the Knife]

I'll cover this again.... Im sure that the 6 stars of the AFL logo stand for the orginal charter members that were at the first meeting because of how it was the meeting the defining the starting of the American Football League , As for the NFC logo I can only guess and connect the dots and see what somewhat matches . It could be like someone said a little up the 3 greedy bastards that jumped for the money and went to join the 10 AFL teams to make the AFC . But I would like to know for sure .

I thought Cleveland, Baltimore, and Pittsburgh had to be ordered to shift by Rozelle.

No, not ordered. They just got paid for it - $3 million each, to be precise.

So how did they decide? I've always found it curious that two of the three markets they shifted over were old AAFC markets.

Rozelle found the three that were willing to go. He had also approached others (including, at least from the books I've read on the subject, Chicago, St. Louis, Minnesota, Dallas, Atlanta and New Orleans), but found no takers.

[Mac the Knife]

IIRC, the Steelers didn't want to go, and had to be "encouraged".

To characterize any of the teams as only chasing a fast buck is misleading at best.

$3 million back then was a helluva lot of encouragement, Goth.

But true - none agreed to it solely based on the money. Rozelle had to do a boatload of asskissing and cajoling to make it happen.

[Claystation360]

Well it was kinda a combination of the two , Rozelle was not doing weeks of ass kissing but it wasn't all for the money either , Cleveland wasn't even part of the original plan to move over , I want to say it was Minnesota but it's been so long I don't remember , Anyway's Modell jumped for the money and Cleveland moved over even thou Rozelle would have rather kept Cincinnati and Cleveland split . Pittsburgh was pretty much told it would be better for the league and they would have a easier chance of winning a championship if they moved over . Baltimore was the one that rozelle if any of them had to do some major ass kissing to , CR's really didn't want to move over at all , but rozzelle pulled it off and im sure there was more then just money .

[Mac the Knife]

Well it was kinda a combination of the two , Rozelle was not doing weeks of ass kissing but it wasn't all for the money either , Cleveland wasn't even part of the original plan to move over , I want to say it was Minnesota but it's been so long I don't remember , Anyway's Modell jumped for the money and Cleveland moved over even thou Rozelle would have rather kept Cincinnati and Cleveland split . Pittsburgh was pretty much told it would be better for the league and they would have a easier chance of winning a championship if they moved over . Baltimore was the one that rozelle if any of them had to do some major ass kissing to , CR's really didn't want to move over at all , but rozzelle pulled it off and im sure there was more then just money .

Yep, pretty much sums it up. Rozelle also had to resort to some fairly drastic tactics when it came to post-merger realignment, including locking the owners in a room (one without a bathroom) for in excess of 30 hours straight. Clever guy, that Pete.

[rams80]

Well it was kinda a combination of the two , Rozelle was not doing weeks of ass kissing but it wasn't all for the money either , Cleveland wasn't even part of the original plan to move over , I want to say it was Minnesota but it's been so long I don't remember , Anyway's Modell jumped for the money and Cleveland moved over even thou Rozelle would have rather kept Cincinnati and Cleveland split . Pittsburgh was pretty much told it would be better for the league and they would have a easier chance of winning a championship if they moved over . Baltimore was the one that rozelle if any of them had to do some major ass kissing to , CR's really didn't want to move over at all , but rozzelle pulled it off and im sure there was more then just money .

Well, you know Rosenbloom and Irsay had that franchise swap in 1972......

[Sabrejeff]

Hurm. Good point.

6 stars just doesn't make any sense in that context.

Consider that the logo could've been designed at this meeting or before Minneapolis dropped out and before Buffalo, Boston, and Oakland came in and the league never revisited the reasoning behind the stars neither than nor during the two redesigns of the logo or the creation of the AFC logo.

[Claystation360]

Well Jeff you just said a mouth full , that's been my whole point all along . The Original AFL logo was done for just after the meeting , and stands for the 6 owners that were at that meeting , and 10 years later the merged NFL kept it as part of the AFC logo , remember then still owners of the AFL teams and fans were not at all happy about giving it up . From the old articles I read years back it said along with the first 4 world championship games would decide the true balance of the 2 leagues after the Truce meeting , to stop the war before they destroyed each other . The Old guard of the NFL was not at all happy about having to "come to their level" the AFL's level in the first place but they saw no other option at the time . If anyone is still reading or following the old guard supposedly as the agreement with the foolish club , If The NFL swept the 4 games the Merger was off and of course losing 4 title bouts to the Champs would have caused the AFL to lose so much revenue they would have been gone before the Mustang II came around . If it was 3 to 1 Kansas City and Houston and 2 other teams would be added to the NFL , I would assume Miami or Denver would have been the 2 others but who knows at this point . We already know what happened at 2-2 , But It was supposed to remain Western and Eastern Conferences just all 8 (10) AFL teams would be added to the NFL . If it was 3-1 in the AFL's Favor then something along what we know now would have come about . Then of course if in some way the AFL was to make a swept then and only then they would merge & there would still be a common draft , and a Super Bowl . But they would be two leagues seperate with 2 commishshers and 2 seperate seheudles , playoff format and divisional set up . But one overall Pro football League offices . There was a quote by one of the owners saying that they made that one up because they all needed a good laugh . It was also said that even thou alot of AFL owners , players and fans would have rather have kept their own league after the 4th Super Bowl but , looking back on it and even some of them said it's better off the way it ended up because of the both would have still kept trying to out do each other and it could have caused the end of both leagues . So knows what could have been ........?

[Mac the Knife]

Well Jeff you just said a mouth full , that's been my whole point all along . The Original AFL logo was done for just after the meeting , and stands for the 6 owners that were at that meeting , and 10 years later the merged NFL kept it as part of the AFC logo , remember then still owners of the AFL teams and fans were not at all happy about giving it up . From the old articles I read years back it said along with the first 4 world championship games would decide the true balance of the 2 leagues after the Truce meeting , to stop the war before they destroyed each other . The Old guard of the NFL was not at all happy about having to "come to their level" the AFL's level in the first place but they saw no other option at the time . If anyone is still reading or following the old guard supposedly as the agreement with the foolish club , If The NFL swept the 4 games the Merger was off and of course losing 4 title bouts to the Champs would have caused the AFL to lose so much revenue they would have been gone before the Mustang II came around . If it was 3 to 1 Kansas City and Houston and 2 other teams would be added to the NFL , I would assume Miami or Denver would have been the 2 others but who knows at this point . We already know what happened at 2-2 , But It was supposed to remain Western and Eastern Conferences just all 8 (10) AFL teams would be added to the NFL . If it was 3-1 in the AFL's Favor then something along what we know now would have come about . Then of course if in some way the AFL was to make a swept then and only then they would merge & there would still be a common draft , and a Super Bowl . But they would be two leagues seperate with 2 commishshers and 2 seperate seheudles , playoff format and divisional set up . But one overall Pro football League offices . There was a quote by one of the owners saying that they made that one up because they all needed a good laugh . It was also said that even thou alot of AFL owners , players and fans would have rather have kept their own league after the 4th Super Bowl but , looking back on it and even some of them said it's better off the way it ended up because of the both would have still kept trying to out do each other and it could have caused the end of both leagues . So knows what could have been ........?

What, exactly, is your source(s) for this? I've never heard such ridiculousness in my life, and have never read or heard ANYTHING CLOSE to this, anywhere, at any time.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Well Jeff you just said a mouth full , that's been my whole point all along . The Original AFL logo was done for just after the meeting , and stands for the 6 owners that were at that meeting , and 10 years later the merged NFL kept it as part of the AFC logo , remember then still owners of the AFL teams and fans were not at all happy about giving it up . From the old articles I read years back it said along with the first 4 world championship games would decide the true balance of the 2 leagues after the Truce meeting , to stop the war before they destroyed each other . The Old guard of the NFL was not at all happy about having to "come to their level" the AFL's level in the first place but they saw no other option at the time . If anyone is still reading or following the old guard supposedly as the agreement with the foolish club , If The NFL swept the 4 games the Merger was off and of course losing 4 title bouts to the Champs would have caused the AFL to lose so much revenue they would have been gone before the Mustang II came around . If it was 3 to 1 Kansas City and Houston and 2 other teams would be added to the NFL , I would assume Miami or Denver would have been the 2 others but who knows at this point . We already know what happened at 2-2 , But It was supposed to remain Western and Eastern Conferences just all 8 (10) AFL teams would be added to the NFL . If it was 3-1 in the AFL's Favor then something along what we know now would have come about . Then of course if in some way the AFL was to make a swept then and only then they would merge & there would still be a common draft , and a Super Bowl . But they would be two leagues seperate with 2 commishshers and 2 seperate seheudles , playoff format and divisional set up . But one overall Pro football League offices . There was a quote by one of the owners saying that they made that one up because they all needed a good laugh . It was also said that even thou alot of AFL owners , players and fans would have rather have kept their own league after the 4th Super Bowl but , looking back on it and even some of them said it's better off the way it ended up because of the both would have still kept trying to out do each other and it could have caused the end of both leagues . So knows what could have been ........?

What, exactly, is your source(s) for this? I've never heard such ridiculousness in my life, and have never read or heard ANYTHING CLOSE to this, anywhere, at any time.

You actually read all of that? I like line breaks and paragraphs.

[rams80]

Well it was kinda a combination of the two , Rozelle was not doing weeks of ass kissing but it wasn't all for the money either , Cleveland wasn't even part of the original plan to move over , I want to say it was Minnesota but it's been so long I don't remember , Anyway's Modell jumped for the money and Cleveland moved over even thou Rozelle would have rather kept Cincinnati and Cleveland split . Pittsburgh was pretty much told it would be better for the league and they would have a easier chance of winning a championship if they moved over . Baltimore was the one that rozelle if any of them had to do some major ass kissing to , CR's really didn't want to move over at all , but rozzelle pulled it off and im sure there was more then just money .

Well, you know Rosenbloom and Irsay had that franchise swap in 1972......

I know I'm quoting myself...but I am sort of serious about this. Was part of the deal to get Baltimore to jump an "understanding", that Rosenbloom would be able to pull off a franchise swap to get back into the NFC? The more I look at this, I am genuinely curious....Los Angeles was a division rival of Baltimore, and the "new" NFC West had 3 of the 4 former members of the Coastal Division that Baltimore was a part of, so it might be an attractive division for Rosenbloom to be in.

*does more digging* I know Irsay had only just acquired the team, and Dan Reeves (former Rams owner) ultimately died of cancer. I wonder when he was diagnosed.

(Yes...one of the bigger questions here seems to be what the frell is Baltimore doing in the Western Division/Conference of the NFL, but that seems to be bureaucratic inertia from the franchise's time in Dallas).

In short this is a genuine curiousity on my part about a very important aspect of the Rams' past...so if anyone has any additional information please feel free to PM me. It could all be coincidence, but it might be something deeper than that, so I'm very curious now.

[Mac the Knife]

I know I'm quoting myself...but I am sort of serious about this. Was part of the deal to get Baltimore to jump an "understanding", that Rosenbloom would be able to pull off a franchise swap to get back into the NFC? The more I look at this, I am genuinely curious....Los Angeles was a division rival of Baltimore, and the "new" NFC West had 3 of the 4 former members of the Coastal Division that Baltimore was a part of, so it might be an attractive division for Rosenbloom to be in.

*does more digging* I know Irsay had only just acquired the team, and Dan Reeves (former Rams owner) ultimately died of cancer. I wonder when he was diagnosed.

(Yes...one of the bigger questions here seems to be what the frell is Baltimore doing in the Western Division/Conference of the NFL, but that seems to be bureaucratic inertia from the franchise's time in Dallas).

In short this is a genuine curiousity on my part about a very important aspect of the Rams' past...so if anyone has any additional information please feel free to PM me. It could all be coincidence, but it might be something deeper than that, so I'm very curious now.

I've never read anything to the effect that the Baltimore-Los Angeles franchise swap was being considered at the time of the merger (if I recall, it didn't happen until 1972), so I kind of doubt it was a factor.

Baltimore was in the NFL Western Conference thanks to George Preston Marshall. When Baltimore was enfranchised for 1953, Marshall insisted that the Colts be in a different division than the Redskins. This prevailed until 1969, and the proximity of Baltimore and Washington probably was a minor factor in Rozelle talking to Rosenbloom about the Colts moving to the AFC.

[rams80]

I know I'm quoting myself...but I am sort of serious about this. Was part of the deal to get Baltimore to jump an "understanding", that Rosenbloom would be able to pull off a franchise swap to get back into the NFC? The more I look at this, I am genuinely curious....Los Angeles was a division rival of Baltimore, and the "new" NFC West had 3 of the 4 former members of the Coastal Division that Baltimore was a part of, so it might be an attractive division for Rosenbloom to be in.

*does more digging* I know Irsay had only just acquired the team, and Dan Reeves (former Rams owner) ultimately died of cancer. I wonder when he was diagnosed.

(Yes...one of the bigger questions here seems to be what the frell is Baltimore doing in the Western Division/Conference of the NFL, but that seems to be bureaucratic inertia from the franchise's time in Dallas).

In short this is a genuine curiousity on my part about a very important aspect of the Rams' past...so if anyone has any additional information please feel free to PM me. It could all be coincidence, but it might be something deeper than that, so I'm very curious now.

I've never read anything to the effect that the Baltimore-Los Angeles franchise swap was being considered at the time of the merger (if I recall, it didn't happen until 1972), so I kind of doubt it was a factor.

Baltimore was in the NFL Western Conference thanks to George Preston Marshall. When Baltimore was enfranchised for 1953, Marshall insisted that the Colts be in a different division than the Redskins. This prevailed until 1969, and the proximity of Baltimore and Washington probably was a minor factor in Rozelle talking to Rosenbloom about the Colts moving to the AFC.

I'm not denying this is entirely conjectural. A lot of it would depend on when Reeves was diagnosed, when Irsay bought the Rams, and when the swap was made. (In short, I'd need a detailed timeline from 1968/69 to 1972 to check this out.)

That said, it would be interesting to know if the NFL had a deal "under the table" as it were for Rosenbloom to pull the swap the next time any NFC franchise opened up.

Although, if there was one, I'm not sure we'd ever find out, because I'm assuming all the people who would have been involved are dead now.