NHL Jersey Discussion - 08-09 3rds

[alex20]

I don't even care about historical accuracy, I LOVE the green leaf Canadiens jersey

[letterform]

Yea, I am sure an organization as classy and well known as the Montreal Canadiens, on their 100th anniversary faked a jersey for :censored:s and giggles.

Here's a tobacco card of Newsy Lalonde and Georges Vezina with the jersey you say does not exist.

Sure the RBK Edge versions aren't a 100% accurate, maybe if they hand knit them out of wool and with a turtle neck collar, then they'd be accurate, but who cares really. It's close enough.

The organization has access to a century's worth of information. I think I'll put my trust in the Canadiens thank you very much.

The tobacco card you show is a painting based on the B&W picture of Newsy Lalonde that you posted. If you can't tell that the jersey in that picture has a blue collar and that the leaf in the B&W picture is obviously superimposed, I can't help you. Hockey cards and sketches from that era are notorious for getting uniform details wrong -especially colours.

As far as the jersey itself there are no historical references anywhere in print to a green and red jersey or green leaf crest. I assure you this. And I defy you to find a non-doctored picture of the 1910-11 Habs that features a leaf crest. One does not exist. What does exist are pictures of the habs minus the leaf logo for that season. But go ahead. Ask the SIHR or go to a library in Quebec and pour over some microfilm if you don't believe me.

As far as the habs getting the details wrong, well, it happens pretty often with the early NHA and NHL histories. There are numerous examples of jerseys and logos from that era that have been mistranslated and reproduced. Many examples have been trademarked are even found in the HHOF.

Speaking of the Habs, it's interesting that they would go with a green leaf now, because they trademarked a blue version of that logo a few years ago.

[AsM29]

Does anyone have the style sheet like the Hurricanes released, for the Sabres? It doesn't have to be pdf/vector, it can be jpg or whatever. I'm just looking to see how the stitching lines are for the Sabres jersey so I can make them for NHL08.

No one on this board has anything like this? I find it hard to believe with all of the people around here that claim to have "inside" sources, not one can help me out with this. The jersey has been released, it's not like anyone would be leaking anything here. All I really need is something where I can see how the stitch lines are on the back of the jersey. PLEASE???

Maybe you should whine. That could help.

Oh wait ...

Maybe if you have nothing valuable to contribute... Oh wait...

The style sheets have not been released yet for the third jerseys... I will let you know when I have the sabres one.

[BBTV]

Flyers honoring past captains at yesterday's game, played at the Spectrum.

I don't think these are the Edge jerseys, but it's what the new alt. is going to look like.

[Neon_Matrix]

Yea, I am sure an organization as classy and well known as the Montreal Canadiens, on their 100th anniversary faked a jersey for :censored:s and giggles.

Here's a tobacco card of Newsy Lalonde and Georges Vezina with the jersey you say does not exist.

Sure the RBK Edge versions aren't a 100% accurate, maybe if they hand knit them out of wool and with a turtle neck collar, then they'd be accurate, but who cares really. It's close enough.

The organization has access to a century's worth of information. I think I'll put my trust in the Canadiens thank you very much.

The tobacco card you show is a painting based on the B&W picture of Newsy Lalonde that you posted. If you can't tell that the jersey in that picture has a blue collar and that the leaf in the B&W picture is obviously superimposed, I can't help you. Hockey cards and sketches from that era are notorious for getting uniform details wrong -especially colours.

As far as the jersey itself there are no historical references anywhere in print to a green and red jersey or green leaf crest. I assure you this. And I defy you to find a non-doctored picture of the 1910-11 Habs that features a leaf crest. One does not exist. What does exist are pictures of the habs minus the leaf logo for that season. But go ahead. Ask the SIHR or go to a library in Quebec and pour over some microfilm if you don't believe me.

As far as the habs getting the details wrong, well, it happens pretty often with the early NHA and NHL histories. There are numerous examples of jerseys and logos from that era that have been mistranslated and reproduced. Many examples have been trademarked are even found in the HHOF.

Speaking of the Habs, it's interesting that they would go with a green leaf now, because they trademarked a blue version of that logo a few years ago.

Give me till the end of October and I'll try to prove your claim wrong. Trust me, the Habs would not jump into anything without looking in their own archives and doing their own research. While there are no colour pictures of the jersey at the time, I am almost positive some have survived to later times and were either documented or photographed. I mean, if you're going to question this one, why not question the accuracy of all the other ones, specifically the shade of blue on the light blue jersey? Just wait a little while longer until the special 100th Anniversary celebration exhibit opens up at the HHOF, I'm sure you'd see something relating to that jersey and if not, go into the archives.

As for trademarking, sometimes teams trademark inaccurate logos, such as the '67 Leaf which contains the wrong font.

BTW, I found this nifty little fan made site which the creator - even though the style of the jersey is off - has mention of a green leaf. http://www.gohabs.com/jerseys.htm

And for a whole lot of fun, I found this article in the process - http://bleacherreport.com/articles/49034-w...december-4-1909

[FiddySicks]

Flyers honoring past captains at yesterday's game, played at the Spectrum.

I don't think these are the Edge jerseys, but it's what the new alt. is going to look like.

Where's Lindros?

[DRutka]

The style sheets have not been released yet for the third jerseys... I will let you know when I have the sabres one.

THANK YOU!!!

[JQK]

In every hockey publication i've ever seen, and with my own extensive knowledge of hockey history, the "green leaf" Canadiens jersey is accurate.

I think the Canadiens have done as well as they could have done with these throwbacks, in this "Edge"-era of uniforms.

[letterform]

In every hockey publication i've ever seen, and with my own extensive knowledge of hockey history, the "green leaf" Canadiens jersey is accurate.

I think the Canadiens have done as well as they could have done with these throwbacks, in this "Edge"-era of uniforms.

Hockey publications are notoriously wrong about many details from this era and many mistakes have been repeated for decades. Team names, players names, even entire histories are inaccurate in the mainstream publications. The jerseys themselves are no exception. There are numerous sweaters and logos from this era that have been reproduced and marketed that get major details wrong. Some are even in the HHOF. It's difficult to get the details from this era right. Where B&W pictures exist, colours and details are grainy & distorted. Newspaper articles rarely mention details about uniforms as well. Actual examples of uniforms are rare. Very few if any jerseys before 1920 have survived to this day. The HHOF in fact has never had more than one or two (pro) uniforms before 1920 and only a handful exist in private collectors hands. AFAIK no uniforms from the NHA actually exist to this day.

I know a little more about this subject than the average hockey fan. I've researched uniforms previously and have actually talked with well known hockey historians that have read the Montreal newspapers from 1911. I know what I'm talking about. The newspapers from the day refer to the Habs uniform colours as red blue and white from this year, not red and GREEN. This is a fact. Fact #2 is that there does not exist ANY picture of the Habs with a leaf on their uniform that was not (obviously) superimposed. There does however exist pictures of the Habs from this season wearing uniforms with an old English "CA" logo.

It is possible that the Habs added a leaf to their uniform midway through the 1910-11 season but there doesn't seem to be much documentation to back that up. The only evidence seems to be doctored pictures with a superimposed leaf and hockey card drawings that were based on these. To my knowledge both of these items were produced in the UK. Considering the accuracy of other hockey cards from this set and colourized hockey cards in general, they should be taken with a grain of salt, but regardless, even these hockey cards show the habs jerseys being red with BLUE striping.

If anyone wants to prove me wrong, I invite you to go ahead, but be prepared to do some actual historical research.

[JQK]

If anyone wants to prove me wrong, I invite you to go ahead, but be prepared to do some actual historical research.

I'm no slouch when it comes to hockey history, my friend.

And you have yet to prove your side of this debate.

[Neon_Matrix]

If anyone wants to prove me wrong, I invite you to go ahead, but be prepared to do some actual historical research.

I'm no slouch when it comes to hockey history, my friend.

And you have yet to prove your side of this debate.

I'm with you on this one. Give me to the end of October and I will try to find out what I can from the best resource in all of hockey. He thinks he knows everything from a little bit of research and a lot of assumptions based off of incomplete information.

Let me add this - The HHOF has people employed, 'professionals" who's career it is to research this kind of stuff. It is very rare they get this kind of stuff wrong. You know, it happens sometimes, but it is very uncommon, just like what you'd find from any museum. Considering they have the largest collection of primary materials, it is hard to argue with their resources. I'd trust their league documents and correspondence over a Montreal newspaper article any day.

I am also no slouch with hockey history, and my resources are pretty top notch.

[DOech714]

Flyers honoring past captains at yesterday's game, played at the Spectrum.

I don't think these are the Edge jerseys, but it's what the new alt. is going to look like.

Where's Lindros?

he couldnt make it but he did leave a a video message for the fans

[Bmac]

How are the Habs getting away with more than 3 jerseys? I'm suprised Bettman is allowing this.

[kiwi_canadian]

How are the Habs getting away with more than 3 jerseys? I'm suprised Bettman is allowing this.

It's because they are celebrating the club's 100th anniversary. Besides it means more money coming in from merchandise.

[habsfannova]

If it is of any note, It was very common to have a Canadian maple leaf as green before the 50s (Aside, of course, from a certain Toronto team).

Ex.:

[Captain Canada]

Take this news for what it is but:

http://chat.mapleleafs.com/index.php?showtopic=83462

October 6th, 2008 there is some sort of 'jersey lineup' announcement. Seeing as it's three days away from the Leafs' season openers, maybe it's their thirds?

[Flame]

Flames are getting new thirds next year

[letterform]

If anyone wants to prove me wrong, I invite you to go ahead, but be prepared to do some actual historical research.

I'm no slouch when it comes to hockey history, my friend.

And you have yet to prove your side of this debate.

I stated two facts:

1. there does not exist a photograph of the 1910-11 uniform with a Leaf that is not superimposed.

2. the newspapers from 1910-11 refer to red and BLUE uniforms.

Like I said: Prove me wrong. But make sure to use a reasonable historical resource.

As far as the HHOF is concerned, they have not researched uniforms from this era very well. Judging by the reproductions from this era on display, and memorabilia that they sell, they have simply copied the crude sketches Charles Coleman made for TOTSC. (The NHL has actually copyrighted a few of these crude logo sketches.) There of course several errors amongst these sketches that have been repeated since the sixties.

Off the top of my head they include:

1914 Victoria Aristocrats uniform. The main colour of this uniform was red not blue. This is a common mistake because red (and yellow) appear almost black on film from this era. The red uniform is confirmed by a Toronto newspaper article from the 1914 Stanley Cup series. Interestingly this crest has been used to describe the Victoria Cougars cup team. The Aristocrats were an entirely different franchise from a decade previous.

1912-13 Habs uniform. Again, the red and blue stripes have been reversed, because the photo was misinterpreted. As well the logo on the uniform that was displayed in the HHOF didn't even look like a leaf. They hastily made one up with strange looking triangles instead.

1925-26 Portland Rosebuds uniform. Again, historical laziness and incorrect interpretation of photos. The Rosebuds wore black and yellow striped uniforms this season, not solid blue and white. The incorrect shade of blue was obviously based on the previous Portland franchise. Stripes can be faintly seen in HQ photos.

1920-21 Hamilton tigers uniform. The crest in the hall doesn't look remotely close to the original.

1923-34 Calgary Tigers uniform. Again, the crest looks nothing like the original. The one in the hall looks like some kind of bizarre Shar -pei dog.

1925 Pittsburgh Pirates uniform. The "Pirates" script looks nothing like the original.

[Sodboy13]

And letterform knows this all, because he's actually 108 years old and saw all these teams in person.

[letterform]

And letterform knows this all, because he's actually 108 years old and saw all these teams in person.

that's pretty funny.

The truth is that I've been an amateur hockey historian for the last decade. I have a particular interest in early pro hockey uniform history. I've researched all of these teams. Make fun if you like.