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NHL Jersey Discussion - 08-09 3rds

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The Islanders 3rd Jersey is now been leaked. There useing there 1972/73 retro jersey as when they first came into the league wearing as there 3rd jersey.

http://www.islesblogger.com/2008/07/28/isl...2009-3rd-jersey

Get right out of town! Look at the first few pages that leaked the thirds.

I thought for a second there I was gonna get to see the edgeified version. The only way they can really screw this up is adding front numbers to make them consistent with the home and road jerseys. I could see them doing this like they did with the Sabres jerseys.

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And letterform knows this all, because he's actually 108 years old and saw all these teams in person.

that's pretty funny.

The truth is that I've been an amateur hockey historian for the last decade. I have a particular interest in early pro hockey uniform history. I've researched all of these teams. Make fun if you like.

I've been a hockey logo, uniform, trophy, statistical history buff since the age of 6. Now as far as color photographs, well in the early 20th century, this was not a widely used photo technique, so getting photogaphical evidence of the colors of the Canadiens uniforms is hard. All that we in the here and now have to go on is black and white photos, cigarette cards, and whatever newspaper articles we can find.

Now Letter, you have claimed that what you've stated is, indeed, fact, but have provided no proof other than your word.

Now what i have seen from every piece of historical hockey data i have, or can get my hands on, the jersey reproductions that the Canadiens presented are in fact, other than being EDGEified, correct. There are pictures of Georges Vezina wearing some of these jerseys (most notably the debated "Green Leaf" jersey)

From everything i've seen, from every reputable hockey source i can find, all evidence sides with the Canadiens on this. If you have visual or a newspaper article from that period that refutes these known facts, then please present them. If i'm wrong, then i'm wrong, but at least i'll know what the truth is with these uniforms. But do not say you know these things to be wrong, then offer no evidence to support your facts.

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If anyone wants to prove me wrong, I invite you to go ahead, but be prepared to do some actual historical research.

I'm no slouch when it comes to hockey history, my friend.

And you have yet to prove your side of this debate.

I stated two facts:

1. there does not exist a photograph of the 1910-11 uniform with a Leaf that is not superimposed.

2. the newspapers from 1910-11 refer to red and BLUE uniforms.

Like I said: Prove me wrong. But make sure to use a reasonable historical resource.

As far as the HHOF is concerned, they have not researched uniforms from this era very well. Judging by the reproductions from this era on display, and memorabilia that they sell, they have simply copied the crude sketches Charles Coleman made for TOTSC. (The NHL has actually copyrighted a few of these crude logo sketches.) There of course several errors amongst these sketches that have been repeated since the sixties.

Off the top of my head they include:

1914 Victoria Aristocrats uniform. The main colour of this uniform was red not blue. This is a common mistake because red (and yellow) appear almost black on film from this era. The red uniform is confirmed by a Toronto newspaper article from the 1914 Stanley Cup series. Interestingly this crest has been used to describe the Victoria Cougars cup team. The Aristocrats were an entirely different franchise from a decade previous.

1912-13 Habs uniform. Again, the red and blue stripes have been reversed, because the photo was misinterpreted. As well the logo on the uniform that was displayed in the HHOF didn't even look like a leaf. They hastily made one up with strange looking triangles instead.

1925-26 Portland Rosebuds uniform. Again, historical laziness and incorrect interpretation of photos. The Rosebuds wore black and yellow striped uniforms this season, not solid blue and white. The incorrect shade of blue was obviously based on the previous Portland franchise. Stripes can be faintly seen in HQ photos.

1920-21 Hamilton tigers uniform. The crest in the hall doesn't look remotely close to the original.

1923-34 Calgary Tigers uniform. Again, the crest looks nothing like the original. The one in the hall looks like some kind of bizarre Shar -pei dog.

1925 Pittsburgh Pirates uniform. The "Pirates" script looks nothing like the original.

Considering you believe that the HHOF produces all their merchandise shows that you don't know all. All the merchandise they sell is produced by New Era, Bulletin, Old Time Hockey and Reebok for everything clothing related. Otherwise, anything else they sell with team logos are from logo sheets provided by the NHL which they had nothing to do with. They didn't make these logos. I know for a fact that all the logos they use in their displays are provided by the NHL. Considering they have an entire archive of photos not available for viewing on the internet, I'm aure you'd be able to find plenty of photos from the 1910-11 season.

What you have stated are not facts but opinions based off of some articles and partial photos you have viewed. You have come to a conclusion, not stated facts. A history buff such as your self should know this difference.

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Interesting debate!

I have a Montreal Canadiens jersey plaque, which shows the green leaf "C" jersey. Of course, this is merely a drawing, so it provides no evidence either way. But, being a big habs fan and having this plaque, this debate definitely piques my interest.

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Flyers honoring past captains at yesterday's game, played at the Spectrum.

20080928_inq_flyr28-b.JPG

I don't think these are the Edge jerseys, but it's what the new alt. is going to look like.

SO much better than the black.

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Flyers honoring past captains at yesterday's game, played at the Spectrum.

20080928_inq_flyr28-b.JPG

I don't think these are the Edge jerseys, but it's what the new alt. is going to look like.

SO much better than the black.

Don't get me started.

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How are the Habs getting away with more than 3 jerseys? I'm suprised Bettman is allowing this.

Huh? You might be thinking of another league or you're taking your Bettman hatred too far.

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How are the Habs getting away with more than 3 jerseys? I'm suprised Bettman is allowing this.

Huh? You might be thinking of another league or you're taking your Bettman hatred too far.

Sorry, I do have a bit of a problem with Mr. Bettman, really just a personal thing.

However, I really didn't think that any teams would be allowed to have more than 3.

Maybe it's that evil Reebok I was thinking of!

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How are the Habs getting away with more than 3 jerseys? I'm suprised Bettman is allowing this.

Huh? You might be thinking of another league or you're taking your Bettman hatred too far.

Sorry, I do have a bit of a problem with Mr. Bettman, really just a personal thing.

However, I really didn't think that any teams would be allowed to have more than 3.

Maybe it's that evil Reebok I was thinking of!

2 of the alternates will be worn next in the 09 season

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Islanders will be unveiled November 1st.

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Does anyone know what the backs of the Canadiens' barber pole (1912-13) jerseys look like? I'm updating nhluniforms.com, and any information would be helpful.

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I've been a hockey logo, uniform, trophy, statistical history buff since the age of 6. Now as far as color photographs, well in the early 20th century, this was not a widely used photo technique, so getting photogaphical evidence of the colors of the Canadiens uniforms is hard. All that we in the here and now have to go on is black and white photos, cigarette cards, and whatever newspaper articles we can find.

Now Letter, you have claimed that what you've stated is, indeed, fact, but have provided no proof other than your word.

Now what i have seen from every piece of historical hockey data i have, or can get my hands on, the jersey reproductions that the Canadiens presented are in fact, other than being EDGEified, correct. There are pictures of Georges Vezina wearing some of these jerseys (most notably the debated "Green Leaf" jersey)

From everything i've seen, from every reputable hockey source i can find, all evidence sides with the Canadiens on this. If you have visual or a newspaper article from that period that refutes these known facts, then please present them. If i'm wrong, then i'm wrong, but at least i'll know what the truth is with these uniforms. But do not say you know these things to be wrong, then offer no evidence to support your facts.

I'm not besmirching your interest as a fan or hockey buff. I respect the fact that you are knowledgeable of the game. This type of research is something I am more experienced with however.

As far as the "facts" are concerned: what exactly do you expect me to produce? I don't believe there's any point for me to produce a newspaper and translation to win an online arguement. Certainly not with those that consider sketches on hockey cards and superimposed leaf logos to be more relevant than actual firsthand evidence such as original photos and newspaper reports.

for the last time:

I didn't say the green leaf could not have existed. That isn't the crux of my arguement.

What I'M saying is that the uniform was red and BLUE, not green. First hand accounts in newspapers of the day describe the uniforms as red and blue. But since you wont believe and dont want to bother looking at the hockey cards which you ironically cite as evidence here you go:

this dude has researched the montreal newspapers

He's done a huge project on this and he confirms the red and blue uniform. Of course he also goes on to say that there is no newspaper documentation for a green leaf that he knows of and confirms again that the leaf was obviously superimposed on the hockeycard.

conclusion:

the habs throwback uniform is not accurate with the details.

it was not a lace up

and didn't have red and green stripes

end of story

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I'm dying to see the Lightning alt. I just wish they would unveil it now, rather than 3 days before they wear it in November (at least thats what Icethetics reports).

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I've been a hockey logo, uniform, trophy, statistical history buff since the age of 6. Now as far as color photographs, well in the early 20th century, this was not a widely used photo technique, so getting photogaphical evidence of the colors of the Canadiens uniforms is hard. All that we in the here and now have to go on is black and white photos, cigarette cards, and whatever newspaper articles we can find.

Now Letter, you have claimed that what you've stated is, indeed, fact, but have provided no proof other than your word.

Now what i have seen from every piece of historical hockey data i have, or can get my hands on, the jersey reproductions that the Canadiens presented are in fact, other than being EDGEified, correct. There are pictures of Georges Vezina wearing some of these jerseys (most notably the debated "Green Leaf" jersey)

From everything i've seen, from every reputable hockey source i can find, all evidence sides with the Canadiens on this. If you have visual or a newspaper article from that period that refutes these known facts, then please present them. If i'm wrong, then i'm wrong, but at least i'll know what the truth is with these uniforms. But do not say you know these things to be wrong, then offer no evidence to support your facts.

I'm not besmirching your interest as a fan or hockey buff. I respect the fact that you are knowledgeable of the game. This type of research is something I am more experienced with however.

As far as the "facts" are concerned: what exactly do you expect me to produce? I don't believe there's any point for me to produce a newspaper and translation to win an online arguement. Certainly not with those that consider sketches on hockey cards and superimposed leaf logos to be more relevant than actual firsthand evidence such as original photos and newspaper reports.

for the last time:

I didn't say the green leaf could not have existed. That isn't the crux of my arguement.

What I'M saying is that the uniform was red and BLUE, not green. First hand accounts in newspapers of the day describe the uniforms as red and blue. But since you wont believe and dont want to bother looking at the hockey cards which you ironically cite as evidence here you go:

this dude has researched the montreal newspapers

He's done a huge project on this and he confirms the red and blue uniform. Of course he also goes on to say that there is no newspaper documentation for a green leaf that he knows of and confirms again that the leaf was obviously superimposed on the hockeycard.

conclusion:

the habs throwback uniform is not accurate with the details.

it was not a lace up

and didn't have red and green stripes

end of story

Just keep in mind many, many, many of those "reporters" had interests in various clubs in different leagues. Who knows how much attention they paid to rival teams when reporting the games.

And here is something to ponder - who says they didn't wear two sets of jerseys that season and start with green and later switch to blue? It wouldn't be the first time a team has switched during the season nor had two sets of jerseys, one to play in and one for photo shoots.

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I've been a hockey logo, uniform, trophy, statistical history buff since the age of 6. Now as far as color photographs, well in the early 20th century, this was not a widely used photo technique, so getting photogaphical evidence of the colors of the Canadiens uniforms is hard. All that we in the here and now have to go on is black and white photos, cigarette cards, and whatever newspaper articles we can find.

Now Letter, you have claimed that what you've stated is, indeed, fact, but have provided no proof other than your word.

Now what i have seen from every piece of historical hockey data i have, or can get my hands on, the jersey reproductions that the Canadiens presented are in fact, other than being EDGEified, correct. There are pictures of Georges Vezina wearing some of these jerseys (most notably the debated "Green Leaf" jersey)

From everything i've seen, from every reputable hockey source i can find, all evidence sides with the Canadiens on this. If you have visual or a newspaper article from that period that refutes these known facts, then please present them. If i'm wrong, then i'm wrong, but at least i'll know what the truth is with these uniforms. But do not say you know these things to be wrong, then offer no evidence to support your facts.

I'm not besmirching your interest as a fan or hockey buff. I respect the fact that you are knowledgeable of the game. This type of research is something I am more experienced with however.

As far as the "facts" are concerned: what exactly do you expect me to produce? I don't believe there's any point for me to produce a newspaper and translation to win an online arguement. Certainly not with those that consider sketches on hockey cards and superimposed leaf logos to be more relevant than actual firsthand evidence such as original photos and newspaper reports.

for the last time:

I didn't say the green leaf could not have existed. That isn't the crux of my arguement.

What I'M saying is that the uniform was red and BLUE, not green. First hand accounts in newspapers of the day describe the uniforms as red and blue. But since you wont believe and dont want to bother looking at the hockey cards which you ironically cite as evidence here you go:

this dude has researched the montreal newspapers

He's done a huge project on this and he confirms the red and blue uniform. Of course he also goes on to say that there is no newspaper documentation for a green leaf that he knows of and confirms again that the leaf was obviously superimposed on the hockeycard.

conclusion:

the habs throwback uniform is not accurate with the details.

it was not a lace up

and didn't have red and green stripes

end of story

The team would sport a different sweater in 1910-11, and the blue and white "C" adorned knits of 1909-10 were exchanged for a red turtleneck pullover with blue and white bars on the collar, sleeves and base. The logo became a green maple leaf highlighted by a stylized "CA", that was very remiscent of the later jerseys of the Toronto Maple Leafs
Many fans today have questioned whether the green maple leaf of the logo of 1910-11 was in fact green and not blue, as some online renderings would lead one to believe. Yes, it does seem odd that the colour green would be included on a Canadiens sweater, but in 1910 there was no reference for it to become a blue maple leaf - the Toronto hockey franchise by that name was still a good 17 years away. Hockey fan's eyes have long been used to the blue and red maple leaf logo's of teams in the country, but in 1910, long before the Canadian flag of today existed, the only maple leaf to be found was the green variety that grew on trees.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't he say in your article that the logo was green? He claims the color was blue and white, and the logo was green, as is shown on the hockey cards.

It certainly supports the fact that the Edge version is off, but your argument about a green crest seems debunked by your own references.

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conclusion:

the habs throwback uniform is not accurate with the details.

it was not a lace up

and didn't have red and green stripes

end of story

Frankly, they're close enough that we don't care. They are throwbacks meant to get the more sales possible and I'd argue that the subtle or not so subtle changes will make more sales. Me and my friends have season tickets for the Habs and all four of us want two or three of those beauties.

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