The new HC of the Knicks is...

[MadmanLA]

I'm pretty puzzled by the Knicks' hire of Mike D'Antoni. Unless Donnie Walsh is doing a complete overhaul of that roster (and in turn, convincing some sucker to take Walsh's inherited garbage), I find a little hard to believe that D'Antoni will succeed at 33rd and 8th Avenue.

Speaking of little Jimmy Dolan spending his daddy's money until it goes out of style...who's planning on buying Newsday?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080512/ap_on_...evision_newsday

[Epiphanic]

I'm puzzled by Starchild's remarks. He contends that all D'Antoni is capable of is winning 50+ games year in, year out, but because he hasn't won or gotten to the finals (although he's gotten very close a number of times) he's a bum. At least winning 50+ games a year gets you a chance at the big one. Apparently, you all would like to continue being the bottom feeders in the East losing 50+ games a year playing a style that you always have. If the goal is to win basketball games you have to score more than the other team. You can do that with suffocating defense, a juggernaut offense, or a combination of both.

Now saying that D'Antoni is a poor hire because the Knicks don't have the right roster for him to run is offense, that's a fine argument. He might not be the best Head Coach decision for the Knicks, but don't say (or imply) that losing 50+ games a year is better than winning 50+ games a year even if you don't win the Finals. To win the playoffs, you first have to get to the playoffs and D'Antoni is capable of that.

[DG_YouKnowWhatThatMeans]

Additionally, the Suns play in the same conference as Tim Duncan's Spurs and (for a bit), Dirk Nowitzki's Mavs. After 2006 the Mavs lost all confidence, but the Spurs remain an every-odd-year reincarnation of the Jordan Bulls. When you run into dominance, it's very hard to get to championship games, and that's what the Suns found.

But put those exact Suns in the East? They'd have made the Finals every single year since Nash and D'Antoni came on board. That's not to say that the Knicks are all of a suddent a Finals team, but epiphanic is right. At this point, being competitive would be an improvement, no matter what style of ball is played.

[Starchild]

Perhaps I should try and explain my line of thinking better...

Mike D'Antoni, with a two-time MVP, a former MVP in Shaq (for 1/2 a season at least), and all stars Shawn Marion and Amare Stoudemire, and various solid supporting casts for his system in guys like Joe Johnson, Quentin Richardson, Leandro Barbosa, Boris Diaw, Raja Bell and Grant Hill, was able to consistently win 50+ games in the regular season and consistently bow out in the playoffs before they can reach the Finals.

Now, while it's true, first you have to make the playoffs to even win the title, at some point you need to call a spade a spade and say if this guy can't get you past the likes of Dallas or San Antonio (the last 3 western conference Finals representatives) with that kind of roster playing his style of ball, then he's just not that great of a coach. Much like adjustments haven't been made in NY to improve the culture or the roster, D'Antoni never made the proper adjustments to move closer to the Finals. He seemed content to win 50+ games, possibly make things competitive in the later rounds yet ultimately lose. While there's no shame in losing to the Spurs, with their roster, it's ridiculous that they couldn't make the NBA Finals ONCE in the last few years.

You're right, winning 50 games is certainly better than losing 50 games. And you're right, D'Antoni is capable of that. But with the right roster. That said, what good is he in NY... he's, as you said, not right for the job or is the roster. D'Antoni isn't a bum by any stretch of the imagination. He is the single best offensive coach in the league. But in my eyes, that is completely useless if all your goal is is tomake the playoffs. Making the playoffs is one thing, but your NUMBER ONE goal should always be to win a championship. Anything less is somewhat of a failure in my eyes. You can have a great year and feel good about it, but when you've got a contending team and you don't even make it to the Finals because of a lack of adjustments, that's on the coach and that's a huge missed opportunity. He's not a bum for winning 50 games, if he's a bum at all. He's a bum for not making the proper adjustments, putting more of an emphasis on stopping the opponent in crucial spots and getting that team over the hump and AT LEAST to the Finals. I don't want a guy who's content to sit back and run his same system over and over expecting a new result.

[Starchild]

Additionally, the Suns play in the same conference as Tim Duncan's Spurs and (for a bit), Dirk Nowitzki's Mavs. After 2006 the Mavs lost all confidence, but the Spurs remain an every-odd-year reincarnation of the Jordan Bulls. When you run into dominance, it's very hard to get to championship games, and that's what the Suns found.

But put those exact Suns in the East? They'd have made the Finals every single year since Nash and D'Antoni came on board. That's not to say that the Knicks are all of a suddent a Finals team, but epiphanic is right. At this point, being competitive would be an improvement, no matter what style of ball is played.

You're right in that sense. But you speak as if the Knicks will even be competitive with D'Antoni.

It will take roughly 3 years to turn the roster over into something D'Antoni-esque. That means presumably 2+ losing seasons with D'Antoni coaching. Do you think he's going to make it to 3-4 years with a better roster?

As for running into dominance, I agree, it's tough. But to not even make adjustments to put yourself in a position to overcome the dominance of the Spurs or the 2006 Mavericks is just inexusable to me. You know what works, and what doesn't work. Why would you consistently go with the same game plan which ultimately ends up failing to bring you to the Finals? As for putting the Suns in the East, they'd be the EXACT same thing. Win 50+, hell, even 60 games and still lose to Detroit in the Eastern finals (maybe last year the lone exception, but once again running into San Antonio in the Finals).

My point is, the coach of the Knicks right now is a lame duck coach. Once the team is productive, he will likely not be around to coach them any further. Therefore, I want a coach that will at least bring in a balanced system and get the culture of the team moving in the right direction. Hell, maybe even develop some of the current bums on the roster to improve trade value. But how can you bring in a guy who is notorious for not coaching defense and having 30 minute practices to coach a team full of idiots that desperately need improvement defensively and absolutely need comprehensive practices?

[Epiphanic]

But to not even make adjustments to put yourself in a position to overcome the dominance of the Spurs or the 2006 Mavericks is just inexusable to me.

First, it's been said in baseball that the playoffs are, to quote Billy Beane, "a crapshoot." In a short series you need a certain amount of luck to win 3 or 4 series in a row. I imagine that the same scenario is applicable for any sport with series based playoffs (which includes basketball). Taking this year's playoffs as an example, the Suns lost 4-1 to a very good Spurs team, but the Suns were just a couple of shots away from being up 3-1 instead of down 3-1 after four.

Second, you speak of D'Antoni as if he's the only one who can make adjustments. Coaches like Popovich and Johnson and other coaches make adjustments as well. Perhaps D'Antoni made the adjustments but his opponents countered quite effectively.

While there's no shame in losing to the Spurs, with their roster, it's ridiculous that they couldn't make the NBA Finals ONCE in the last few years.

You know who else didn't make the Finals during that same span? Phil Jackson and the Lakers. What a loser!

It will take roughly 3 years to turn the roster over into something D'Antoni-esque. That means presumably 2+ losing seasons with D'Antoni coaching.

Assuming you're right, two more years of sucking (albeit sucking less) should be tolerable so he can get the roster he needs.

Making the playoffs is one thing, but your NUMBER ONE goal should always be to win a championship. Anything less is somewhat of a failure in my eyes.

I stand by my previous statement. You can't win it, if you're not in it. Yes the ultimate goal should be to win the championship, but first you should worry about getting to the playoffs. One step at a time.

[ferrousoxide66]

While I understand the questioning of D'Antoni as the Knicks choice, what I don't get is any of you clamoring for Avery frickin' Johnson.

The Mavs were a trainwreck. First round flameouts with that talent? Inexcusable.

[Starchild]

While I understand the questioning of D'Antoni as the Knicks choice, what I don't get is any of you clamoring for Avery frickin' Johnson.

The Mavs were a trainwreck. First round flameouts with that talent? Inexcusable.

Avery isn't necessarily right for the job either... but given the choice, he's a much better candidate. He's not a big city type guy by any means, but his coaching philosophy is in line with what the team needs. He was a solid point guard in his time, knew how to run an offense, played for a defensive-oriented championship team... and don't forget, the Mavs were a piss-poor defensive team initially. Avery Johnson brought defense into the picture and got them to the NBA Finals... they just completely collapsed (lack of heart, lack of killer instinct in Dirk, whatever you want) and let Miami steal the title. But the point is, he helped get them there with a proper system. As for Golden State, inexusable. And they knew it. Nobody denied it. Golden State lit them up.

Epiphanic, the Phil Jackson comment holds no weight. His team didn't make the Finals because their roster was not up to par... if you're team sucks, the coach doesn't make much of a difference. Had Phil Jackson coached the Suns, there isn't a doubt in my mind they would have at least one ring right now. And let's not forget, Phil Jackson has a proven winning system considering he has 9 rings as a coach.

But you're overall "one step at a time" statement is fair. I can't fault you on that one, I just happen to think that D'Antoni took a bunch of brilliant steps and failed to make the last, most crucial one for 3 years running. I just can't support that.

[AJM]

Can't believe he went to the Knicks...granted he was never going to stay with the Suns, but I hope he enjoys NY and the trainwreck associated with it.