NHL Expansion in 2010?

[Gary]

The problem is ticket prices.

If the NHL could negotiate a TV deal with Europe in the same way the NFL is marketed to Americans, they could rake in billions.

Revenue sharing would then be able to significantly help smaller-market teams - nullifying the need for $80 ticket prices. I think $30 tickets could be a reality if that happened.

What the NHL needs to is negotiate a better contract with a company like ESPN or FSN(National Deal) than what they have on versus. More airtime on a better known channel will get them a better fan base.

But since they haven't done that, I will do it myself with my (as of right now, imaginary) XHL.

Yeah there already is an XHL and no it isn't on this boards

16 teams in Canada - 16 EU countries.

(Yes, I know how unlikely that sounds, but I figured out ownership for all of them. A few would be owned by fans, like the Packers.)

All 16 countries would get TV rights to each of the 16 teams as well.

The bill would be footed collectively by the EU, in order to give the poorer countries a bit of a break.

Each team would play a 16-game schedule, so it could be aired in prime time every weekend for the European countries, while still being held in the afternoon on the North American continent.

Why would they want that many broadcasts available?

32 of the players would be top-ranked players from the 16 countries.

The Ovechkins, Kolzigs, Sundins, etc. would be the reason to tune in week after week

Or we let European countries continue to thrive with their own brand of hockey and let the North Americans continue with their brand with the NHL, trust me with the schedule and travel this league you propose has it will die quickly not unless you have someone who is very rich take on the league which I doubt will happen.

[Magnus]

Yeah there already is an XHL and no it isn't on this boards

I'm aware of that. There are hundreds of XHL fantasy leagues, probably.

It's just a temporary name.

Trust me, with the schedule and travel this league you propose has, it will die quickly unless you have someone who is very rich take on the league, which I doubt will happen.

Did I ever say that they would be playing in Europe?

I don't think I did.

All the teams would play all of their games inside Canada, unless the boards of governors approved the addition of an extra game or two in the EU country that the teams are tied with overseas - a distinct possibility, since they only play one game a week on weekends anyway.

I don't see how that is more strenuous than a grueling 82-game season.

Please, explain it to me.

--

Edit:

Here are the ownership groups I have in mind that would own the 16 franchises.

BCE - Victoria

CanWest Global - Vancouver

Imperial Oil - Edmonton

Alberta Beef - Calgary

SaskTel - Regina

Saskatchewan's agriculture industry - Saskatoon

CN/CP/VIA - Winnipeg

GM/Ford/Chrysler (Windsor-Detroit)

Vale/Xstrata/shareholder fans (Sudbury, ON)

Rogers - Toronto

Research In Motion (Ottawa)

Molson-Coors (Halifax)

Labatt (London)

Dofasco (Hamilton) (this one is in effect owned by Lakshmi Mittal, one of the richest men on the planet) ($45 billion)

Bombardier - Montreal

HydroQuebec - Quebec City

Yes, I know that Ottawa and Halifax are an odd pair.

Nothing I can do.

[Jer15]

Yeah there already is an XHL and no it isn't on this boards

I'm aware of that. There are hundreds of XHL fantasy leagues, probably.

It's just a temporary name.

Trust me, with the schedule and travel this league you propose has, it will die quickly unless you have someone who is very rich take on the league, which I doubt will happen.

Did I ever say that they would be playing in Europe?

I don't think I did.

All the teams would play all of their games inside Canada, unless the boards of governors approved the addition of an extra game or two in the EU country that the teams are tied with overseas - a distinct possibility, since they only play one game a week on weekends anyway.

I don't see how that is more strenuous than a grueling 82-game season.

Please, explain it to me.

I'm not about to get in the middle, but i'm confused, i though you were proposing that there are some europian teams

[Gary]

Yeah there already is an XHL and no it isn't on this boards

I'm aware of that. There are hundreds of XHL fantasy leagues, probably.

It's just a temporary name.

Trust me, with the schedule and travel this league you propose has, it will die quickly unless you have someone who is very rich take on the league, which I doubt will happen.

Did I ever say that they would be playing in Europe?

I don't think I did.

All the teams would play all of their games inside Canada, unless the boards of governors approved the addition of an extra game or two in the EU country that the teams are tied with overseas - a distinct possibility, since they only play one game a week on weekends anyway.

I don't see how that is more strenuous than a grueling 82-game season.

Please, explain it to me.

I'm not about to get in the middle, but i'm confused, i though you were proposing that there are some europian teams

no you'd be right, he did say 16 Canadian, 16 European. But the 16 European would play in Canada? Yeah I agree that would be confusing.

[Magnus]

I said 32 European all-star-calibre players from the 16 countries in Europe.

Not 16 teams based in Europe.

The idea behind it is marketing star power, the way David Beckham hoped to promote association football when he joined the MLS - just in reverse, because it would be marketing a product with European players, playing in Canada, back to Europe - something the NHL tried to do, I guess, but failed for some odd reason.

At least, I'm not aware that the NHL has any sort of TV deal with Europe.

If they do, it isn't a very good one.

[McCall]

16 teams in Canada - 16 EU countries.

(Yes, I know how unlikely that sounds, but I figured out ownership for all of them. A few would be owned by fans, like the Packers.)

All 16 countries would get TV rights to each of the 16 teams as well.

The bill would be footed collectively by the EU, in order to give the poorer countries a bit of a break.

Each team would play a 16-game schedule, so it could be aired in prime time every weekend for the European countries, while still being held in the afternoon on the North American continent.

Why would they want that many broadcasts available?

32 of the players would be top-ranked players from the 16 countries.

The Ovechkins, Kolzigs, Sundins, etc. would be the reason to tune in week after week

I said 32 European all-star-calibre players from the 16 countries in Europe.

Not 16 teams based in Europe.

The idea behind it is marketing star power, the way David Beckham hoped to promote association football when he joined the MLS - just in reverse, because it would be marketing a product with European players in Canada back to Europe.

Sounds like your implying teams here. Plus, only a 16-game season?

[CC97]

How many times does the "2nd team in Toronto" thing need to come up before we see that it's not happening.

I think what Chris said about the split in Leafs fans-vs- disgruntled Leafs fans or just plain hockey fans is correct, but let's face it going to Hamilton, or even London makes alot more sence.

In those cities your tapping into a market that A) has hosted NHL exhibition games with success (I know, I know. one game versus 41 is a huge difference) has supported minor league hockey for a long time

C) is out of the Leafs territorial rights, but still close enough to draw from the GTA (more so Hamilton than London, but London can draw from Sarnia and Windsor)

and

D) Has an arena that can support the NHL, assuming the owner is will to expand/upgrade the arena.

The problem with areas like London, Hamilton is that you gotta figure they'd have a harder time getting corporate interest (sponsors, big clients buying up luxury boxes) than another Toronto franchise would. Can't afford to pay the insane MLSE box fees, buy up a seasons worth of that other Toronto team and save your client the 45 minute drive down the QEW or 2 hour trek down the 401.

Not to mention the population... 4 million in the GTA vs. considerably less in the Hamilton and London/Kitchener areas... not that I don't think either area couldn't support an NHL team I just think a second one in Toronto would be much more of a success overall (business-wise at least)

[RyanB06]

well in a round about way what im saying is,if a team dose relocate let it be nash/phx,fla..........not a historic team with a good fan base and a crappy arena i.e. NY islanders or a few years ago pittsburgh

Or Hartford, from whence your Hurricanes came. Last I looked, neither Pittsburgh nor the Islanders are going anywhere.

And forgive me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't using the Marlies as an example of the GTA can't support two NHL teams be specious at best - they're an AHL franchise affiliated with and owned by the Leafs. That's apples and oranges as far as I'm concerned.

[Magnus]

Sounds like your implying teams here. Plus, only a 16-game season?

Yeah. Only 16 games, in order to up the novelty factor, and in order to play them all on weekends, like in the NFL.

[rams80]

Yeah there already is an XHL and no it isn't on this boards

I'm aware of that. There are hundreds of XHL fantasy leagues, probably.

It's just a temporary name.

Trust me, with the schedule and travel this league you propose has, it will die quickly unless you have someone who is very rich take on the league, which I doubt will happen.

Did I ever say that they would be playing in Europe?

I don't think I did.

All the teams would play all of their games inside Canada, unless the boards of governors approved the addition of an extra game or two in the EU country that the teams are tied with overseas - a distinct possibility, since they only play one game a week on weekends anyway.

I don't see how that is more strenuous than a grueling 82-game season.

Please, explain it to me.

--

Edit:

Here are the ownership groups I have in mind that would own the 16 franchises.

BCE - Victoria

CanWest Global - Vancouver

Imperial Oil - Edmonton

Alberta Beef - Calgary

SaskTel - Regina

Saskatchewan's agriculture industry - Saskatoon

CN/CP/VIA - Winnipeg

GM/Ford/Chrysler (Windsor-Detroit)

Vale/Xstrata/shareholder fans (Sudbury, ON)

Rogers - Toronto

Research In Motion (Ottawa)

Molson-Coors (Halifax)

Labatt (London)

Dofasco (Hamilton) (this one is in effect owned by Lakshmi Mittal, one of the richest men on the planet) ($45 billion)

Bombardier - Montreal

HydroQuebec - Quebec City

Yes, I know that Ottawa and Halifax are an odd pair.

Nothing I can do.

Didn't we like, demolish this over the summer in this very thread?!

[Jer15]

How many times does the "2nd team in Toronto" thing need to come up before we see that it's not happening.

I think what Chris said about the split in Leafs fans-vs- disgruntled Leafs fans or just plain hockey fans is correct, but let's face it going to Hamilton, or even London makes alot more sence.

In those cities your tapping into a market that A) has hosted NHL exhibition games with success (I know, I know. one game versus 41 is a huge difference) has supported minor league hockey for a long time

C) is out of the Leafs territorial rights, but still close enough to draw from the GTA (more so Hamilton than London, but London can draw from Sarnia and Windsor)

and

D) Has an arena that can support the NHL, assuming the owner is will to expand/upgrade the arena.

The problem with areas like London, Hamilton is that you gotta figure they'd have a harder time getting corporate interest (sponsors, big clients buying up luxury boxes) than another Toronto franchise would. Can't afford to pay the insane MLSE box fees, buy up a seasons worth of that other Toronto team and save your client the 45 minute drive down the QEW or 2 hour trek down the 401.

Not to mention the population... 4 million in the GTA vs. considerably less in the Hamilton and London/Kitchener areas... not that I don't think either area couldn't support an NHL team I just think a second one in Toronto would be much more of a success overall (business-wise at least)

You make a good point.

I'm not about to discount it at, in fact I think that's exactly why you don't hear anything about London when all the talk comes up about an additional NHL team in western Ontario.

I also realize that was the main (i emphasise main, I realize it wasn't the only) reason the Jets didn't end up working, and would be the biggest (again not only) reason a return to Winnipeg wouldn't be a good idea.

Though I will throw this thought out there for you all. There has got to be alot of corporations looking to get into sponsering the NHL that are based in the GTA. I mean, I realize that a "45 min" drive to Hamilton is a bit (I put that in quotes cause we all know driving in rush hour on the 403/QEW is no easy feat. One which takes alot longer than it should) of a drive for Torontonians, I think that companies that are based in Oakville/Burlington and beyond would be more than willing to jump in on that band wagon, speaking in regards to getting boxes. I also feel that the huge companies who used to sponser MLSE teams (like P.C. Financial) wouldn't really care if it was Toronto, Whitby, Brampton, Mississauga, Oakville, or Burlington.......heck even Georgetown or some small place like that they got a huge advertisment for, as long as it was GTA they'd be happy.

Now, keep in mind I know I could be completely missing the mark on that. It's just some "food for thought".

[Jer15]

Yeah there already is an XHL and no it isn't on this boards

I'm aware of that. There are hundreds of XHL fantasy leagues, probably.

It's just a temporary name.

Trust me, with the schedule and travel this league you propose has, it will die quickly unless you have someone who is very rich take on the league, which I doubt will happen.

Did I ever say that they would be playing in Europe?

I don't think I did.

All the teams would play all of their games inside Canada, unless the boards of governors approved the addition of an extra game or two in the EU country that the teams are tied with overseas - a distinct possibility, since they only play one game a week on weekends anyway.

I don't see how that is more strenuous than a grueling 82-game season.

Please, explain it to me.

--

Edit:

Here are the ownership groups I have in mind that would own the 16 franchises.

BCE - Victoria

CanWest Global - Vancouver

Imperial Oil - Edmonton

Alberta Beef - Calgary

SaskTel - Regina

Saskatchewan's agriculture industry - Saskatoon

CN/CP/VIA - Winnipeg

GM/Ford/Chrysler (Windsor-Detroit)

Vale/Xstrata/shareholder fans (Sudbury, ON)

Rogers - Toronto

Research In Motion (Ottawa)

Molson-Coors (Halifax)

Labatt (London)

Dofasco (Hamilton) (this one is in effect owned by Lakshmi Mittal, one of the richest men on the planet) ($45 billion)

Bombardier - Montreal

HydroQuebec - Quebec City

Yes, I know that Ottawa and Halifax are an odd pair.

Nothing I can do.

Didn't we like, demolish this over the summer in this very thread?!

There's also the fact that Dofasco went belly up and were bought out and portions of the company were sold off.

In fact what "remains" of Dofasco is now call Arclor Metlas (spelling may be wrong) and they are a fraction of the size.

[Bmac]

I'm caught in the middle of this whole thing. On the one hand, I love the NHL so much and I love the idea of more teams to watch. I just love watching each team even I am not a fan of that team. I like the idea of having more new teams to get to know. However, the NHL just isn't in the best position to do this. They aren't getting enough attention as it is. There are plenty of teams as it is. As said earlier, there just isn't enough talent to go around. That really goes for any league. I had this fantasy type league, goalies only, and there were 36 teams. Several real-life NHL backup goalies were starters, mostly those splitting time with another. Anyway, there wasn't enough talent to go around, and 6 teams had to fold. So back to what I was saying, expansion would just bring too many teams. I have always thought there could be 2 "NHLs". Almost like the NFL and AFL. Both would be equal professional leagues. The winner of each league would come together to play in the Stanley Cup finals, after playoffs, of course.

Anyway, just some thoughts...

BTW, if any of this has basically already been said, I apoligize. I did not read each and every page of this.

[Magnus]

Didn't we like, demolish this over the summer in this very thread?!

I don't know. Let me go check. LOL

Edit: you do seem to have addressed me on this.

Oh well. Can't give up on a dream.

[yoo]

well in a round about way what im saying is,if a team dose relocate let it be nash/phx,fla..........not a historic team with a good fan base and a crappy arena i.e. NY islanders or a few years ago pittsburgh

Or Hartford, from whence your Hurricanes came. Last I looked, neither Pittsburgh nor the Islanders are going anywhere.

And forgive me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't using the Marlies as an example of the GTA can't support two NHL teams be specious at best - they're an AHL franchise affiliated with and owned by the Leafs. That's apples and oranges as far as I'm concerned.

the pens were about to move 2 years ago,the city had to get slot machines to pay for the new arena,if i remember correctly

and there have been rumors of the Isle's moving outta that dump for the past 2 years,hope they don't tho...i think one roumor was that they may move into the barclays center in Brooklyn with the nets

[rams80]

well in a round about way what im saying is,if a team dose relocate let it be nash/phx,fla..........not a historic team with a good fan base and a crappy arena i.e. NY islanders or a few years ago pittsburgh

Or Hartford, from whence your Hurricanes came. Last I looked, neither Pittsburgh nor the Islanders are going anywhere.

And forgive me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't using the Marlies as an example of the GTA can't support two NHL teams be specious at best - they're an AHL franchise affiliated with and owned by the Leafs. That's apples and oranges as far as I'm concerned.

the pens were about to move 2 years ago,the city had to get slot machines to pay for the new arena,if i remember correctly

and there have been rumors of the Isle's moving outta that dump for the past 2 years,hope they don't tho...i think one roumor was that they may move into the barclays center in Brooklyn with the nets

FWIW going to Brooklyn would not constitute a "move". And the near move of the Penguins was not related to the market, but to the craphole they called an arena.

[yoo]

well in a round about way what im saying is,if a team dose relocate let it be nash/phx,fla..........not a historic team with a good fan base and a crappy arena i.e. NY islanders or a few years ago pittsburgh

Or Hartford, from whence your Hurricanes came. Last I looked, neither Pittsburgh nor the Islanders are going anywhere.

And forgive me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't using the Marlies as an example of the GTA can't support two NHL teams be specious at best - they're an AHL franchise affiliated with and owned by the Leafs. That's apples and oranges as far as I'm concerned.

the pens were about to move 2 years ago,the city had to get slot machines to pay for the new arena,if i remember correctly

and there have been rumors of the Isle's moving outta that dump for the past 2 years,hope they don't tho...i think one roumor was that they may move into the barclays center in Brooklyn with the nets

FWIW going to Brooklyn would not constitute a "move". And the near move of the Penguins was not related to the market, but to the craphole they called an arena.

well in the 1st quoted box i state it would be because of a crappy arena

and while from long Island to bkln may not be a major move,the fact that long island is in there logo,and there named the islanders..there would be some irony,but i'd imagine the fan base would stay,although i'd puke if they were called the Brooklyn Islanders

on the island there is no Queens or Brooklyn

[rams80]

well in a round about way what im saying is,if a team dose relocate let it be nash/phx,fla..........not a historic team with a good fan base and a crappy arena i.e. NY islanders or a few years ago pittsburgh

Or Hartford, from whence your Hurricanes came. Last I looked, neither Pittsburgh nor the Islanders are going anywhere.

And forgive me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't using the Marlies as an example of the GTA can't support two NHL teams be specious at best - they're an AHL franchise affiliated with and owned by the Leafs. That's apples and oranges as far as I'm concerned.

the pens were about to move 2 years ago,the city had to get slot machines to pay for the new arena,if i remember correctly

and there have been rumors of the Isle's moving outta that dump for the past 2 years,hope they don't tho...i think one roumor was that they may move into the barclays center in Brooklyn with the nets

FWIW going to Brooklyn would not constitute a "move". And the near move of the Penguins was not related to the market, but to the craphole they called an arena.

well in the 1st quoted box i state it would be because of a crappy arena

and while from long Island to bkln may not be a major move,the fact that long island is in there logo,and there named the islanders..there would be some irony,but i'd imagine the fan base would stay,although i'd puke if they were called the Brooklyn Islanders

on the island there is no Queens or Brooklyn

You do realize Brooklyn is on Long Island, right?

[boardname]

well in a round about way what im saying is,if a team dose relocate let it be nash/phx,fla..........not a historic team with a good fan base and a crappy arena i.e. NY islanders or a few years ago pittsburgh

Or Hartford, from whence your Hurricanes came. Last I looked, neither Pittsburgh nor the Islanders are going anywhere.

And forgive me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't using the Marlies as an example of the GTA can't support two NHL teams be specious at best - they're an AHL franchise affiliated with and owned by the Leafs. That's apples and oranges as far as I'm concerned.

the pens were about to move 2 years ago,the city had to get slot machines to pay for the new arena,if i remember correctly

and there have been rumors of the Isle's moving outta that dump for the past 2 years,hope they don't tho...i think one roumor was that they may move into the barclays center in Brooklyn with the nets

FWIW going to Brooklyn would not constitute a "move". And the near move of the Penguins was not related to the market, but to the craphole they called an arena.

well in the 1st quoted box i state it would be because of a crappy arena

and while from long Island to bkln may not be a major move,the fact that long island is in there logo,and there named the islanders..there would be some irony,but i'd imagine the fan base would stay,although i'd puke if they were called the Brooklyn Islanders

on the island there is no Queens or Brooklyn

You do realize Brooklyn is on Long Island, right?

Technically yes, but Brooklyn is a part of NYC, NOT Long Island.

[yoo]

well in a round about way what im saying is,if a team dose relocate let it be nash/phx,fla..........not a historic team with a good fan base and a crappy arena i.e. NY islanders or a few years ago pittsburgh

Or Hartford, from whence your Hurricanes came. Last I looked, neither Pittsburgh nor the Islanders are going anywhere.

And forgive me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't using the Marlies as an example of the GTA can't support two NHL teams be specious at best - they're an AHL franchise affiliated with and owned by the Leafs. That's apples and oranges as far as I'm concerned.

the pens were about to move 2 years ago,the city had to get slot machines to pay for the new arena,if i remember correctly

and there have been rumors of the Isle's moving outta that dump for the past 2 years,hope they don't tho...i think one roumor was that they may move into the barclays center in Brooklyn with the nets

FWIW going to Brooklyn would not constitute a "move". And the near move of the Penguins was not related to the market, but to the craphole they called an arena.

well in the 1st quoted box i state it would be because of a crappy arena

and while from long Island to bkln may not be a major move,the fact that long island is in there logo,and there named the islanders..there would be some irony,but i'd imagine the fan base would stay,although i'd puke if they were called the Brooklyn Islanders

on the island there is no Queens or Brooklyn

You do realize Brooklyn is on Long Island, right?

yes i do,i own 2 globes

look at the logo real close http://sportslogos.net/logo.php?id=138

you notice that Queens and Brooklyn are left off http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Map_of_...w_York_City.svg