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Islanders flirting with Kansas City?


Ez Street

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The Kansas City Scouts were the worst draw in NHL history.

Why are they so eager to go back?

It's not like Kansas City is all that different from the mid-1970's.

Got anything to back this statement up?

On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said:
You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now.
On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said:
Today, we are all otaku.

"The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert

POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010

The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy)

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I haven't seen any major population growth as compared to other cities.

The market is still considered small by major sports standards, if not smaller then it was in the 1970's.

Only difference I can see is a new arena.

The Kansas City CSA is bigger than Columbus, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Las Vegas (included as it is popular in expansion conversations), Raleigh, Nashville, Oklahoma City, Buffalo, and New Orleans.

On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said:
You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now.
On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said:
Today, we are all otaku.

"The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert

POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010

The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy)

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I haven't seen any major population growth as compared to other cities.

The market is still considered small by major sports standards, if not smaller then it was in the 1970's.

Only difference I can see is a new arena.

The Kansas City CSA is bigger than Columbus, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Las Vegas (included as it is popular in expansion conversations), Raleigh, Nashville, Oklahoma City, Buffalo, and New Orleans.

And other then Buffalo none of those cities deserve to have an NHL team either in my opinion.

Hurricanes, and Blue Jackets have done nothing but lose money since coming into the league at least from a financial standpoint.

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I haven't seen any major population growth as compared to other cities.

The market is still considered small by major sports standards, if not smaller then it was in the 1970's.

Only difference I can see is a new arena.

The Kansas City CSA is bigger than Columbus, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Las Vegas (included as it is popular in expansion conversations), Raleigh, Nashville, Oklahoma City, Buffalo, and New Orleans.

And other then Buffalo none of those cities deserve to have an NHL team either in my opinion.

Hurricanes, and Blue Jackets have done nothing but lose money since coming into the league.

Ooooh...I sense a member of the "hockey doesn't belong in the Hee Haw states" party.

EDIT-more importantly, I was under the impression that the Blue Jackets were one of the expansion success stories (off of the ice, anyway)

On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said:
You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now.
On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said:
Today, we are all otaku.

"The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert

POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010

The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy)

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I haven't seen any major population growth as compared to other cities.

The market is still considered small by major sports standards, if not smaller then it was in the 1970's.

Only difference I can see is a new arena.

The Kansas City CSA is bigger than Columbus, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Las Vegas (included as it is popular in expansion conversations), Raleigh, Nashville, Oklahoma City, Buffalo, and New Orleans.

And other than Buffalo none of those cities deserve to have an NHL team either in my opinion.

Hurricanes, and Blue Jackets have done nothing but lose money since coming into the league at least from a financial standpoint.

I'd like to know why these "cities on the list" do not deserve an NHL team?

Oklahoma City Blazers draw big in the CHL, Indianapolis is a great hockey market that unfortunately has become a Junior League circuit, Milwaukee is a great market for hockey. Columbus like Rams said is a big and booming market. SO tell me why do these cities don't desere a NHL franchise?

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The highest ranked team in attendance this season for the teams I was referring to is Tampa Bay at 20, and I may actually reconsider them because they've done better then I thought, but Nashville, Columbus, Florida, Atlanta, Carolina, and Phoenix are all on my need to be contracted or moved list.

Those six have never drawn well at the box office, and the Hurricanes have the highest team value of those teams according to Forbes at 22nd.

So these are 6 of the bottom 9 teams in the league as far as financial value goes right now.

Also most of these teams are in the south who have a history with any pro sport of only supporting those teams when they are considered to be of elite status. As soon as they dip a little, attendance drops like a rock.

NHL is not doing too good financially right now, so it behooves me as to why they are so eager to go back to a market that performed so badly before, when there's other markets out there like Winnipeg and Seattle that are practically begging for a team to come there.

The only reason that makes sense to me is new arena.

I haven't seen any major population growth as compared to other cities.

The market is still considered small by major sports standards, if not smaller then it was in the 1970's.

Only difference I can see is a new arena.

The Kansas City CSA is bigger than Columbus, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Las Vegas (included as it is popular in expansion conversations), Raleigh, Nashville, Oklahoma City, Buffalo, and New Orleans.

And other then Buffalo none of those cities deserve to have an NHL team either in my opinion.

Hurricanes, and Blue Jackets have done nothing but lose money since coming into the league.

Ooooh...I sense a member of the "hockey doesn't belong in the Hee Haw states" party.

EDIT-more importantly, I was under the impression that the Blue Jackets were one of the expansion success stories (off of the ice, anyway)

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The highest ranked team in attendance this season for the teams I was referring to is Tampa Bay at 20, and I may actually reconsider them because they've done better then I thought, but Nashville, Columbus, Florida, Atlanta, Carolina, and Phoenix are all on my need to be contracted or moved list.

Those six have never drawn well at the box office, and the Hurricanes have the highest team value of those teams according to Forbes at 22nd.

So these are 6 of the bottom 8 teams in the league as far as financial value goes right now.

Never? Can you prove this with percent of seats filled data?

Also most of these teams are in the south who have a history with any pro sport of only supporting those teams when they are considered to be of elite status. As soon as they dip a little, attendance drops like a rock.

Which is better than say New Jersey, which never supports the Devils.

NHL is not doing too good financially right now, so it behooves me as to why they are so eager to go back to a market that performed so badly before, when there's other markets out there like Winnipeg and Seattle that are practically begging for a team to come there.

Winnipeg, for reasons that have been laid out repeatedly in this forum, would not be a financial upgrade.

Seattle doesn't have a NHL-compatible arena at the moment, and is currently not keen on building one. How does this constitute "begging"?

More importantly, it has been 33 years since the Scouts left Kansas City. If we applied your logic to other NHL expansion initiatives, the Flyers, Blues, and Penguins would all not exist today.

On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said:
You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now.
On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said:
Today, we are all otaku.

"The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert

POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010

The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy)

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I just glanced at the attendance figures, and all of them were low from a totals perspective, I couldn't find percentages however, which is kind of strange actually. (Does the NHL have some kind of rule against it that I'm not aware of)

The financial data I can provide though if interested.

I'll agree with your opinion about the Devils (I live in Jersey) And that's mainly their own doing. In my opinion they don't market aggressively enough, also Jersey itself really doesn't have an identity because most people that live in Jersey associate themselves with NYC or Philly before Jersey.

Also I feel the Rangers may have something to do with why the Devils haven't marketed more aggressively because Cablevision owns the Rangers, and I don't see them promoting anyone other then the Rangers on MSG that often.

But my opinion about the South with pro sports still stands, nor did you explain why the Devils situation relates.

Also the NHL failed in Philly, St. Louis, and Pittsburgh before because of the great depression. When they came back the cities were no longer in a depression, and did much better.

And I still ask what has changed since the mid-1970's that caused the Scouts to fail?

As far as the issue of whether or not Winnipeg would be a good financial choice, I feel that is highly debatable.

Seattle does not to pay for somebody's arena. That much is true, and honestly I can't say I blame them there. I see no reason why public taxpayer dollars should go to private enterprise such as pro sports, but that's a debate for another time.

However if an owner was willing to build an arena, Seattle would gladly welcome a NHL team.

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The highest ranked team in attendance this season for the teams I was referring to is Tampa Bay at 20, and I may actually reconsider them because they've done better then I thought, but Nashville, Columbus, Florida, Atlanta, Carolina, and Phoenix are all on my need to be contracted or moved list.

Those six have never drawn well at the box office, and the Hurricanes have the highest team value of those teams according to Forbes at 22nd.

Columbus finished as high as possible in their second season. We've proven that we can support an NHL team, it's just that 8 years out of the playoffs will turn people away. Now that the team is showing like they're trying to win, the seats are starting to fill up again. Once they're good, and the economy is better then you'll see a crowded Nationwide Arena. Also, the Blue Jackets were one of 11 teams to turn a profit in the season before the lockout. Give us at least another decade before you cut us loose. If the team is successful and still doesn't draw (ala Nashville) then you can start calling for a move.

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"Now that the team is showing like they're trying to win, the seats are starting to fill up again."

They're 28th in league attendance, and they play in an average sized arena.

Also profits don't measure things like potential growth which is the basis for most of what determines a franchises value, and currently Columbus is 28th.

But the we are a new franchise excuse doesn't work anymore after the 5 year mark. That's all I have to say about the Blue Jackets.

One a side note obviously your a Blue Jackets fan, and will fight for why your franchise needs to exist. Any good fan would. I understand that, and am probably seem to be coming off a little bit of an :censored: right now, just try not to take anything I say personally. I'm not trying to attack people here, just the argument.

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I just glanced at the attendance figures, and all of them were low from a totals perspective, I couldn't find percentages however, which is kind of strange actually. (Does the NHL have some kind of rule against it that I'm not aware of)

The financial data I can provide though if interested.

I'll agree with your opinion about the Devils (I live in Jersey) And that's mainly their own doing. In my opinion they don't market aggressively enough, also Jersey itself really doesn't have an identity because most people that live in Jersey associate themselves with NYC or Philly before Jersey.

Also I feel the Rangers may have something to do with why the Devils haven't marketed more aggressively because Cablevision owns the Rangers, and I don't see them promoting anyone other then the Rangers on MSG that often.

But my opinion about the South with pro sports still stands, nor did you explain why the Devils situation relates.

The Devils have never been well supported, even when they were winning Stanley Cups. Your point about the South was that they only support teams when they are winning. If we look at it from that perspective, Southern cities are actually better than the Devils.

Also the NHL failed in Philly, St. Louis, and Pittsburgh before because of the great depression. When they came back the cities were no longer in a depression, and did much better.

And I still ask what has changed since the mid-1970's that caused the Scouts to fail has changed?

There is a larger talent pool being fed into the league than what existed in the mid-70s during the height of the WHA-NHL War, which makes for better hockey overall. I would also say that hockey does have more national recognition now than it did back in the 1970s. Additionally, I presume that the Scouts 2.0 would be better than the original Scouts; nobody wants to pay to see a godawful expansion team, which probably was the original Scouts' biggest problem. I'll also point out that the 1970s economy wasn't that hot as well. (Granted things aren't good now, but the 1970s economy wasn't good either.)

As far as the issue of whether or not Winnipeg would be a good financial choice, I feel that is highly debatable.

A former Winnipeg resident on this board feels it wouldn't work.

Seattle does not to pay for somebody's arena. That much is true, and honestly I can't say I blame them there. I see no reason why public taxpayer dollars should go to private enterprise such as pro sports, but that's a debate for another time.

However if an owner was willing to build an arena, Seattle would gladly welcome a NHL team.

Owners will never be willing to build arenas when other markets are willing to build them for them.

On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said:
You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now.
On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said:
Today, we are all otaku.

"The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert

POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010

The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy)

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I still can't see anything new with Kansas City that would lead to a new franchise succeeding where they failed before. The Scouts were averaging 2,000 a game. That's a little more then not wanting to see a bad franchise in my opinion. That's a nobody cares market in my opinion. And KC has also lost another team in the Kings. So this is a market where half the major pro teams that have played there moved.

As far as talent goes it's debatable as to whether it has expanded, stayed the same, or contracted.

As far as the Devils go the only thing that gives them the edge over Southern teams is the amount of money available in the NYC metro area, which is why Forbes has them ranked 10th in franchise value. I'm not a Devils fan though, so I'm not going to make a huge deal over why they are so much better.

Winnipeg's financial market is booming right now from all accounts written by business magazines. I'm not saying that overrides what your saying, but it at least puts the subject in debate.

My bottom line is that I feel there are better markets out there then Kansas City right now, Winnipeg being one of them.

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Kansas City, MISSOURI is where the Sprint Center is and where the Royals and Chiefs are. Kansas City, KANSAS is just... there.

I'll forgive budbowl this time, this isn't his neck of the woods, that is where Kansas City, Kansas (KCK) is - the woods or Western part of the city next to the farms. The $Money$ is in Johnson County, Kansas (Leawood, Shawnee Mission, Blue Valley, and the areas just South of KCK (in Wyandotte County).

Most of KCK is a shell of it's former glory days, it's a good place to go, but folks don't flock there. I agree it's like the "twin cities" but smaller. Also the Missouri River divides the North end of KS & MO where we have an imaginary "State Line" dividing the Mid to South end of the Kansas City Area.

Either way, most of us consider ourselves Kansas Citians no matter what side of the state line you live.

How about; Kansas City Islanders, drop the Islanders add 'thunder' and have a really crappy logo. Oh wait, that already happened somewhere else. Sorry, we don't want a shipment of "fail" coming to us via the "rail" (as in railroad):P

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Kansas City Scouts (CHL) Orr Cup Champions 2010, 2019, 2021         St. Joseph Pony Express (ULL)  2023 Champions     Kansas City Cattle (CL)

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I still can't see anything new with Kansas City that would lead to a new franchise succeeding where they failed before. The Scouts were averaging 2,000 a game. That's a little more then not wanting to see a bad franchise in my opinion. That's a nobody cares market in my opinion. And KC has also lost another team in the Kings. So this is a market where half the major pro teams that have played there moved.

It has been decades since those shifts, so the failures are not as relevant today. If they had left town within the decade, it would be more relevant.

As far as talent goes it's debatable as to whether it has expanded, stayed the same, or contracted.

There weren't nearly as many Europeans in the league then as there are now. That is where the expanded talent pool comes from. The WHA and NHL were trying to stock 32 major league teams almost exclusively with North Americans-that's where talent degradation in the past comes in. Post-merger they had 21, which was far more manageable for that talent pool.

As far as the Devils go the only thing that gives them the edge over Southern teams is the amount of money available in the NYC metro area, which is why Forbes has them ranked 10th in franchise value. I'm not a Devils fan though, so I'm not going to make a huge deal over why they are so much better.

Perhaps Forbes rankings are not the best to go by, then. Or perhaps, if the NYC location has such an influence on the Forbes rankings, it may be open to questioning whether moving the Southern teams any where else would improve their standing.

Winnipeg's financial market is booming right now from all accounts written by business magazines. I'm not saying that overrides what your saying, but it at least puts the subject in debate.

My bottom line is that I feel there are better markets out there then Kansas City right now, Winnipeg being one of them.

And yet as of last checking, my hometown of Peoria has more Global Fortune 500 companies (1) than Winnipeg. (0) Winnipeg's small arena also could only be sort of expanded with extreme difficulty. Kansas City also has roughly 3 times the Metro population.

On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said:
You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now.
On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said:
Today, we are all otaku.

"The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert

POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010

The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy)

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"Perhaps Forbes rankings are not the best to go by, then. Or perhaps, if the NYC location has such an influence on the Forbes rankings, it may be open to questioning whether moving the Southern teams any where else would improve their standing."

I've followed these rankings for years. I've seen no bias shown towards any city. And if Forbes is s biased towards NYC why are the Islanders ranked 29th, and the Giants and Jets were ranked 15 and 16th nearly every year running before their new stadium was announced?

"And yet as of last checking, my hometown of Peoria has more Global Fortune 500 companies (1) than Winnipeg. (0)"

That would also be 1 more then Las Vegas, New Orleans Denver, Vancouver, Miami, and San Diego.

Use a better example then that for why Winnipeg's market isn't good.

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When it's all said and done, I'd bet that they won't be coming to KC. We have all the facilities but I'm not sure there is a real strong Fan Base here in KC - Yes we are loyal Chiefs and Royals fans, we don't give up on them, but I really don't think they will come to KC. Without going into details, I don't think it will happen.

The Islander will stay on the East Coast or outside senerio, they'll end up in Canada.

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Kansas City Scouts (CHL) Orr Cup Champions 2010, 2019, 2021         St. Joseph Pony Express (ULL)  2023 Champions     Kansas City Cattle (CL)

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