hormone 625 Posted January 17, 2009 I like Dungy and I like Gruden. The fact is Dungy didn't win a SB with Dungy's players. Gruden won the SB and nobody can take that from him. Dungy is a great coach and guy, but it's inevitable to win a SB with a decent defense and an offense that features Peyton Manning, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and co.What about Raheem Morris? Does this guy have the stuff? He went from the outhouse to the penthouse in a few days!Two last things in Gru's defense. TB is a notorious place where offenses and offensive people can't perform. Vinny, Steve Young, etc. I could be here all day. What about the players he did get and panned out? Ike Hilliard, Clifton Smith, Gallaway, the whole D line.I don't forsee Gru being unemployed very long. He just missed in the drafts. That was his biggest problem. Problem #1...Michael Clayton over Steven Jackson. Others...Problem #2 Chris Simms. Problem #3 Pounding the rock with a guy who can't pound it week in and week out (see problem 1). Problem #4 Getting aging vets. (Tim Brown, Charlie Garner) Problem #5 Letting the D be. (the D is great, but it's a shell of itself now). Problem #6 Ego. Hate Key or not, when the Colts made the great MNF comeback and the team shredded itself, this was the actual beginning of the end.I'm done. Dungy was an awesome coach/guy. I liked Gru too. He got us the only SB in franchise history. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oddball 204 Posted January 18, 2009 I like Dungy and I like Gruden. The fact is Dungy didn't win a SB with Dungy's players. Gruden won the SB and nobody can take that from him. Dungy is a great coach and guy, but it's inevitable to win a SB with a decent defense and an offense that features Peyton Manning, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and co.Dungy didn't win a Super Bowl with Dungy players? Um, 5 years in Indianapolis? Yes he did. If I'm not mistakes there were former Bucs on that Indy squad that won the Super Bowl. Did he win in Tampa? No. Was he fired unfairly? *shrug* The goal is to win a Super Bowl and not just to the playoffs. Many coaches were fired before a team won a championship. What Dungy didn't have with Tampa was that explosiveness that Manning provided. His quarterback was Brad Johnson and Brad ain't the most nimble, nor explosive quarterback. No one was ever afraid of Brad Johnson, he was just a solid quarterback who understood not to lose a game. And put that with a very conservative ideology of pound the ball and the littlest mistake will lose you the game. That was Dungy. What Gruden provided was opening up the offense enough to push them over the top. Dungy was a very good coach who was strong defensively, but his mindset of get a certain amount of points and let the defense win the game hurt him. He doesn't have the offensive mindset to be adventurous. Gruden brought that and it worked. It worked because they went from a conservative base to and offensive base mind-set. That's great, but Gruden is so pass-happy that he won't win in the playoffs ever as a head coach. Defense wins championships, but you need enough offense to get ahead. Dungy's style with the Bucs never provided that in the playoffs for the Bucs. Gruden won with Dungy's players, but Dungy need that extra-special quarterback to succeed using his mind-set and Brad Johnson for Tony Dungy isn't that quarterback. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1990hornet 15 Posted January 3, 2012 Looking back, I want Gruden back. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, Raheem. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raysox 2,561 Posted January 3, 2012 Gruden sucks, tho. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1990hornet 15 Posted January 3, 2012 Yeah cause that Super Bowl win was so horrible.In the end, I just want the Glazer's to actually spend money on the team and get a good coach with a good coaching staff. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GFB 2,127 Posted January 3, 2012 Gruden must have a super-keen eye for evaluating talent, because he picked out 10 or so All-Pro players off the Rams/Seahawks MNF game that I somehow skipped right over... 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kramerica Industries 1,981 Posted January 3, 2012 Gruden has a fixation on old players. There's a reason why, after the Super Bowl year, the Bucs went from bad ('03-'04), to good ('05), to bad ('06), to good ('07), and then a mix of good and bad in 2008 when they fell apart in the final month.Raheem didn't have enough power over his players, and that's the biggest reason why he's gone. In no way could he have been kept after the way his players quit on him over the second half of the season. I said this earlier, but they allowed an AVERAGE of 37.5 PPG over the last eight weeks of the season. It was abominable, really. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raysox 2,561 Posted January 3, 2012 Yeah cause that Super Bowl win was so horrible.In the end, I just want the Glazer's to actually spend money on the team and get a good coach with a good coaching staff.Well it was with a team that Dungy constructed. The team went full retard like 4 of the 6 years after it. Plus, every play would be a screen or a run up the middle. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shumway 2,306 Posted January 3, 2012 Gruden must have a super-keen eye for evaluating talent, because he picked out 10 or so All-Pro players off the Rams/Seahawks MNF game that I somehow skipped right over...You mean he didn't fixate himself on one player and tell us exactly what that player is thinking and doing at all times? 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
See Red 2,088 Posted January 3, 2012 Yeah cause that Super Bowl win was so horrible.In the end, I just want the Glazer's to actually spend money on the team and get a good coach with a good coaching staff.Well it was with a team that Dungy constructed. The team went full retard like 4 of the 6 years after it. Plus, every play would be a screen or a run up the middle.Who constructed the team that they played against in the Super Bowl? 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raysox 2,561 Posted January 3, 2012 Well that just means he didn't do a good job there either! 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
infrared41 9,204 Posted January 3, 2012 Zombie threads. When I saw this, I thought Gruden got whacked by ESPN. Why are we talking about something that happened three years ago? 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1990hornet 15 Posted January 3, 2012 Zombie threads. When I saw this, I thought Gruden got whacked by ESPN. Why are we talking about something that happened three years ago?Actually talking about the Bucs current coaching situation, or at least I was. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
infrared41 9,204 Posted January 3, 2012 Zombie threads. When I saw this, I thought Gruden got whacked by ESPN. Why are we talking about something that happened three years ago?Actually talking about the Bucs current coaching situation, or at least I was.By digging up a completely irrelevant, 3 year old thread? Eh, what do I care? Carry on. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mania 381 Posted January 3, 2012 Zombie threads. When I saw this, I thought Gruden got whacked by ESPN. Why are we talking about something that happened three years ago?I actually thought, because he just extended with ESPN, that it was a different kind of "out" altogether.I was expecting a far more fun thread. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coast2CoastAM2006 394 Posted January 3, 2012 i honestly thought this was a case of a team hiring him and then hours later realizing they messed up and then fired him the same day. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rams80 4,272 Posted January 3, 2012 Yeah cause that Super Bowl win was so horrible.In the end, I just want the Glazer's to actually spend money on the team and get a good coach with a good coaching staff.Well it was with a team that Dungy constructed. The team went full retard like 4 of the 6 years after it. Plus, every play would be a screen or a run up the middle.Who constructed the team that they played against in the Super Bowl?He did. However, please note that Oakland has yet to return to the playoffs since said Super Bowl. Somebody did a crappy job of building a long term competitor. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FiddySicks 11,198 Posted January 3, 2012 Yeah cause that Super Bowl win was so horrible.In the end, I just want the Glazer's to actually spend money on the team and get a good coach with a good coaching staff.Well it was with a team that Dungy constructed. The team went full retard like 4 of the 6 years after it. Plus, every play would be a screen or a run up the middle.Who constructed the team that they played against in the Super Bowl?He did. However, please note that Oakland has yet to return to the playoffs since said Super Bowl. Somebody did a crappy job of building a long term competitor.Hi there Mr. Nebraska fan. Remember that one coach they had after Gruden? Remember how the Huskers resembled a spiritually broken 45 year old divorcee after a histerectomy when he left? Yeah, Oakland felt that pain too.(Granted, old man Davis didn't help either, but still). 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueSky 423 Posted January 3, 2012 Zombie threads. When I saw this, I thought Gruden got whacked by ESPN. Why are we talking about something that happened three years ago?In the spirit of Tebow's contributions to our national psyche, perhaps these should be called "resurrected threads." (cue choir) 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rams80 4,272 Posted January 3, 2012 Yeah cause that Super Bowl win was so horrible.In the end, I just want the Glazer's to actually spend money on the team and get a good coach with a good coaching staff.Well it was with a team that Dungy constructed. The team went full retard like 4 of the 6 years after it. Plus, every play would be a screen or a run up the middle.Who constructed the team that they played against in the Super Bowl?He did. However, please note that Oakland has yet to return to the playoffs since said Super Bowl. Somebody did a crappy job of building a long term competitor.Hi there Mr. Nebraska fan. Remember that one coach they had after Gruden? Remember how the Huskers resembled a spiritually broken 45 year old divorcee after a histerectomy when he left? Yeah, Oakland felt that pain too.(Granted, old man Davis didn't help either, but still).Bill Callahan may be an incompetent halfwit, but Gruden's complete inability to work with players under the age of 30 also cost the Raiders dearly. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
