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Jon Gruden out?

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It's funny how Gruden's stock is so low among Buccs fans. You don't hear any Superbowl winning coach getting less credit. One of two guys whose lead the Buccs to anything like a consistent period of success, and every Tampa Bay fan seems to want to bitch about the guy.

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In fairness, he really didn't have them consistently successful, as I pointed out earlier with the way the Bucs fluctuated from 9-10 win team to 10+ loss team every other year.

Not that I care to bash him, though. The Bucs gave up a ton to get him, which is part of the reason why they fell apart so shortly after their Super Bowl season. And, as we saw, his replacement at HC was a pretty steep downgrade.

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In fairness, he really didn't have them consistently successful, as I pointed out earlier with the way the Bucs fluctuated from 9-10 win team to 10+ loss team every other year.

Not that I care to bash him, though. The Bucs gave up a ton to get him, which is part of the reason why they fell apart so shortly after their Super Bowl season. And, as we saw, his replacement at HC was a pretty steep downgrade.

All things are relative. Even Dungy's record at the Buccaneers was only just over .500. Between them in 12 years, Dungy and Gruden won 116 games, all the other Tampa Bay head coaches together have won 116 in 23. (Gruden has 60 wins with Tampa Bay).

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Here's my issue with Gruden and this is coming from a Bucs fan. For an offensive guy, he paid no attention to the defense and could care less about it. He also thought that it was a smart idea to carry 52 QB's on the roster. Yes, Gruden did coach the Bucs to a championship, but let's call a spade a spade, it was against the team he constructed and still ran the system he put in, so it made an easy win. If you go back and read article after article and see quotes from Buc players, but everyone to a man said, "We knew what the were going to run and when." None of us know if Gruden would've won a Super Bowl against another team, it would've been interesting to see. As far as what they gave to get him, I said at the time, "They better win a Super Bowl or it's too friggin' much." They won one, so I have no problem with it. The issue with the team has been a horrible evaluation of talent, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

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Here's my issue with Gruden and this is coming from a Bucs fan. For an offensive guy, he paid no attention to the defense and could care less about it. He also thought that it was a smart idea to carry 52 QB's on the roster. Yes, Gruden did coach the Bucs to a championship, but let's call a spade a spade, it was against the team he constructed and still ran the system he put in, so it made an easy win. If you go back and read article after article and see quotes from Buc players, but everyone to a man said, "We knew what the were going to run and when." None of us know if Gruden would've won a Super Bowl against another team, it would've been interesting to see. As far as what they gave to get him, I said at the time, "They better win a Super Bowl or it's too friggin' much." They won one, so I have no problem with it. The issue with the team has been a horrible evaluation of talent, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

But the Raiders, then, also knew what the Bucs were going to try and do in that Super Bowl. It works both ways. I mean, they destroyed the Eagles and 49ers in the playoffs, so they'd have stood a pretty damn good chance against anybody else.

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The AFC was also very weak that season. The Raiders were actually a dangerous foe because they had a decent run game and an outstanding passing game led by Rich Gannon who was playing the best football of his life at the time. If the Bucs could beat the Raiders, they certainly could've beaten the likes of Tennessee, Indy, NY, and Cleveland. Pittsburgh is the only team I wonder about, and that's because they did beat the Bucs that season.

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In fairness, he really didn't have them consistently successful, as I pointed out earlier with the way the Bucs fluctuated from 9-10 win team to 10+ loss team every other year.

Here's my issue with Gruden and this is coming from a Bucs fan. For an offensive guy, he paid no attention to the defense and could care less about it. He also thought that it was a smart idea to carry 52 QB's on the roster. Yes, Gruden did coach the Bucs to a championship, but let's call a spade a spade, it was against the team he constructed and still ran the system he put in, so it made an easy win. If you go back and read article after article and see quotes from Buc players, but everyone to a man said, "We knew what the were going to run and when." None of us know if Gruden would've won a Super Bowl against another team, it would've been interesting to see. As far as what they gave to get him, I said at the time, "They better win a Super Bowl or it's too friggin' much." They won one, so I have no problem with it. The issue with the team has been a horrible evaluation of talent, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

I couldn't agree more than with what the above posters have said...

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It's funny how Gruden's stock is so low among Buccs fans. You don't hear any Superbowl winning coach getting less credit. One of two guys whose lead the Buccs to anything like a consistent period of success, and every Tampa Bay fan seems to want to bitch about the guy.

I don't think it is about getting less credit, it has more to do with what they gave up to get him and how it ended. The "Chucky" image given to him was what was key to his notoriety today. He ran with it to a point in his mannerisms and even in his ESPN role as the tough coach.

In reality, if you hire Gruden, Fisher, Brian Billick or even Jim Fassel statistically they are same coach.

Fisher 17 years .542 winning percentage 6 playoffs made (5-6 record) with 1 Super Bowl made

Gruden 11 years .540 winning percentage 5 playoffs made (5-4 record) with 1 Super Bowl win

Billick 9 years .556 winning percentage 4 playoffs made (5-3 record) with 1 Super Bowl win

Fassel 7 years .523 winning percentage 3 playoffs made (2-3 record) with 1 Super Bowl made

if John Fox did not go 2-14 his last year in Carolina, you could add him to the list be winning percentage.

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It's funny how Gruden's stock is so low among Buccs fans. You don't hear any Superbowl winning coach getting less credit. One of two guys whose lead the Buccs to anything like a consistent period of success, and every Tampa Bay fan seems to want to bitch about the guy.

I for one, LOVE Gruden and always will. Sure he got lucky by facing the Raiders, but at the time they were the #1 offensive team in the league and made it to the Super Bowl, really despite having Bill Callahan as their head coach. At one point that Raiders team lost like 6 straight after winning their first six and a lot of it had to due with some of the absolutely boneheaded decisions Callahan made. That team was GOOD. They should've won the Super Bowl the two prior years as well, but the Ravens getting hot and the Tom Brady Tuck nonsense prevented that. That Raiders team was excellent when Gruden was there and didn't fall apart until over a year after he left. Can't blame Gruden for Oakland's awful front office moves and having a freaking glorified offensive line coach trying to maintain their offensive success.

Here's my issue with Gruden and this is coming from a Bucs fan. For an offensive guy, he paid no attention to the defense and could care less about it. He also thought that it was a smart idea to carry 52 QB's on the roster. Yes, Gruden did coach the Bucs to a championship, but let's call a spade a spade, it was against the team he constructed and still ran the system he put in, so it made an easy win. If you go back and read article after article and see quotes from Buc players, but everyone to a man said, "We knew what the were going to run and when." None of us know if Gruden would've won a Super Bowl against another team, it would've been interesting to see. As far as what they gave to get him, I said at the time, "They better win a Super Bowl or it's too friggin' much." They won one, so I have no problem with it. The issue with the team has been a horrible evaluation of talent, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

Sigh, I'm not even really sure where to start with this one. First off, again, you can't blame Gruden for getting lucky that he faced a team who was too lazy to change anything about the system when he left. And OF COURSE Gruden ignored the defense! He had one of if not the VERY best Defensive Coordinators in the history of the game taking care of that.

Here's my issue with Gruden and this is coming from a Bucs fan. For an offensive guy, he paid no attention to the defense and could care less about it. He also thought that it was a smart idea to carry 52 QB's on the roster. Yes, Gruden did coach the Bucs to a championship, but let's call a spade a spade, it was against the team he constructed and still ran the system he put in, so it made an easy win. If you go back and read article after article and see quotes from Buc players, but everyone to a man said, "We knew what the were going to run and when." None of us know if Gruden would've won a Super Bowl against another team, it would've been interesting to see. As far as what they gave to get him, I said at the time, "They better win a Super Bowl or it's too friggin' much." They won one, so I have no problem with it. The issue with the team has been a horrible evaluation of talent, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

But the Raiders, then, also knew what the Bucs were going to try and do in that Super Bowl. It works both ways. I mean, they destroyed the Eagles and 49ers in the playoffs, so they'd have stood a pretty damn good chance against anybody else.

Another great point. They had a great regular season where they pretty much owned their division, beat Green Bay (which was rare then), absolutely destroyed the Niners In the second round, and outplayed the Eagles, who were the odds on favorite to win the whole thing, in the freezing cold, where the Bucs had NEVER won a game before in all of their existence (Not sure the exact stat, but it was something like 0-27 in games below 40 degrees before that day)

The AFC was also very weak that season. The Raiders were actually a dangerous foe because they had a decent run game and an outstanding passing game led by Rich Gannon who was playing the best football of his life at the time. If the Bucs could beat the Raiders, they certainly could've beaten the likes of Tennessee, Indy, NY, and Cleveland. Pittsburgh is the only team I wonder about, and that's because they did beat the Bucs that season.

I've always thought that if the Bucs had played the Jets or Titans, who both got killed by the Raiders, they would have done the same thing. Neither of those teams were very impressive. The Raiders were by far the best team in the AFC playoffs that year. And I'm with you on being stoked that they avoided Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh came to Tampa Christmas week that year and dominated them. Almost cost them a first round bye. I breathed a pretty large sigh of relief when Tennessee toppled them in the Wild Card round.

Overall, as a fan, I've never felt that Gruden got enough credit for his collective body of work. He built up an Oakland team who were absolutely dreadful when he got there, and he did something with the Bucs that Dungy never was able to do with them, and that's win it all. I also feel that team, specifically the defense, never got enough credit for how good they were. That D was one of the best I've ever seen and was as well one of the best defenses ever. Their are so many guys who were on that D who will end up as hall of famers that it's really hard to believe.

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It's funny how Gruden's stock is so low among Buccs fans. You don't hear any Superbowl winning coach getting less credit. One of two guys whose lead the Buccs to anything like a consistent period of success, and every Tampa Bay fan seems to want to bitch about the guy.

I don't think it is about getting less credit, it has more to do with what they gave up to get him and how it ended. The "Chucky" image given to him was what was key to his notoriety today. He ran with it to a point in his mannerisms and even in his ESPN role as the tough coach.

In reality, if you hire Gruden, Fisher, Brian Billick or even Jim Fassel statistically they are same coach.

Fisher 17 years .542 winning percentage 6 playoffs made (5-6 record) with 1 Super Bowl made

Gruden 11 years .540 winning percentage 5 playoffs made (5-4 record) with 1 Super Bowl win

Billick 9 years .556 winning percentage 4 playoffs made (5-3 record) with 1 Super Bowl win

Fassel 7 years .523 winning percentage 3 playoffs made (2-3 record) with 1 Super Bowl made

if John Fox did not go 2-14 his last year in Carolina, you could add him to the list be winning percentage.

How many NFL head coaches who haven't worked with a really good QB in there career have records over .600. Here is the list of NFL head coaches who have retired since 1980 with a record over .600- Don Shula, Tony Dungy, George Seifert, Red Miller, Barry Switzer, Mike Martz, Bill Cowher, Jow Gibbs, Marty Schottenheimer, Bill Walsh, Tom Landry. Take out Red Miller and Barry Switzer due to short careers and of the guys left only Gibbs, Schottenheimer maybe, didn't rely on a proper good to great QB over at least a substantial period of their career. Fisher, Gruden, Billick and Fassel all never had a great QB to work with. (Fisher had McNair as the best of the lot perhaps).

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