Back In The Game?

[rams80]

I would argue that the trend of American cities building sports pleasure palaces may be coming to an end. There has been a fairly pronounced backlash against them in the last few years, and that trend will likely only grow as the recession continues.

[SenatorJake]

I would argue that the trend of American cities building sports pleasure palaces may be coming to an end. There has been a fairly pronounced backlash against them in the last few years, and that trend will likely only grow as the recession continues.

What about when the arena's in Sunrise, FL/Glendale, AZ/Atlanta, GA/Nashville, TN get too old? Will local government invest a ton of cash to rebuild an arena for a team nobody goes to see? I doubt it. In 10-15 years, there will be newer arenas and those old arenas in the cities I mentioned will have lost their lustre. The NHL southern expirement will eventually be outed as the failure it has been.

[The_Admiral]

Yeah, Saskatoon is a good solid Dub town. I'm not sure they "deserve" an AHL team or even want one. I'd say that ever since the AHL pulled out of the Maritimes, major-junior is a bigger deal in Canada than the AHL.

[DEAD!]

Hamilton Tigers would bring back the history of the former team, similar to the Ottawa Senators. Hamilton Steel Anything just sounds too gimicky and minor league. I'd avoid any steel references.

Although, I would like to see them sponsored by Diet Coke.... too much of a stretch?

[Linus]

People really need to stop quoting 5 different posts. Just quote the 1 post you want. Its really annoying when trying to read something.

[rams80]

I would argue that the trend of American cities building sports pleasure palaces may be coming to an end. There has been a fairly pronounced backlash against them in the last few years, and that trend will likely only grow as the recession continues.

What about when the Arena's in Sunrise, FL/Glendale, AZ/Atlanta, GA/Nashville, TN get too old? Will local government invest a ton of cash to rebuild an arena for a team nobody goes to see? I doubt it. In 10-15 years, there will be newer arenas and those old arenas in the cities I mentioned will have lost their lustre. The NHL southern expirement will eventually be outed as the failure it has been.

Or in another 10-15 years, those teams may have put down enough roots to grow established and sufficiently popular. Who knows? That's another generation down the road.

[dwertman]

The decision by the ownership of the Phoenix Coyotes to initiate bankruptcy proceedings without consultation or approval of the National Hockey League is an unfortunate turn of events for the NHL, the State of Arizona and the Coyotes' loyal fans.

That was a quote from Bettman Wed.

But if you look at the message postings from the reports on the Arizona paper websites,there arent many "loyal" fans around,as i would guestimate the majority of them were along the lines of "dont let the door hit you on the way out"

[SenatorJake]

I would argue that the trend of American cities building sports pleasure palaces may be coming to an end. There has been a fairly pronounced backlash against them in the last few years, and that trend will likely only grow as the recession continues.

What about when the Arena's in Sunrise, FL/Glendale, AZ/Atlanta, GA/Nashville, TN get too old? Will local government invest a ton of cash to rebuild an arena for a team nobody goes to see? I doubt it. In 10-15 years, there will be newer arenas and those old arenas in the cities I mentioned will have lost their lustre. The NHL southern expirement will eventually be outed as the failure it has been.

Or in another 10-15 years, those teams may have put down enough roots to grow established and sufficiently popular. Who knows? That's another generation down the road.

Could be, but from what I've seen, talking to many people from southern Florida for example (my mom lives down there) the apathy seems to be universal across all generations.

I stand behind my point that the future of the NHL being back in it's northern roots until I see proof that says otherwise.

[rams80]

The decision by the ownership of the Phoenix Coyotes to initiate bankruptcy proceedings without consultation or approval of the National Hockey League is an unfortunate turn of events for the NHL, the State of Arizona and the Coyotes' loyal fans.

That was a quote from Bettman Wed.

But if you look at the message postings from the reports on the Arizona paper websites,there arent many "loyal" fans around,as i would guestimate the majority of them were along the lines of "dont let the door hit you on the way out"

The comments section on a newspaper website is not the best way to gauge opinions on anything. Said sections are typically dominated by a few large voices notable only for their negativity about anything under the sun.

[Gary]

BigMac, please stop posting in these threads, you are making the few coyotes fans on this board look bad. Seriously how have you not been suspended for your actions I have no clue

[Linus]

Im loving how Daly and the NHL are saying they are in control of the Coyotes. Wasn't it a few weeks ago that Bettman said they weren't controlling the Coyotes? So basically, Bettman flat out lied to the public?

[Coast2CoastAM2006]

[Mod edit: quit posting that.]

[DEAD!]

BigMac, please stop posting in these threads, you are making the few coyotes fans on this board look bad. Seriously how have you not been suspended for your actions I have no clue

I think, considering the other thread, he doesn't make Coyotes fans look bad, he makes Christians look bad.

[SenatorJake]

Im loving how Daly and the NHL are saying they are in control of the Coyotes. Wasn't it a few weeks ago that Bettman said they weren't controlling the Coyotes? So basically, Bettman flat out lied to the public?

Absolutely, just another underhanded tactic by Bettman to keep his slim majority with the Board of Governors. Something tells me that his slim majority may not survive this crisis.

[dfwabel]

I would argue that the trend of American cities building sports pleasure palaces may be coming to an end. There has been a fairly pronounced backlash against them in the last few years, and that trend will likely only grow as the recession continues.

What about when the arena's in Sunrise, FL/Glendale, AZ/Atlanta, GA/Nashville, TN get too old? Will local government invest a ton of cash to rebuild an arena for a team nobody goes to see? I doubt it. In 10-15 years, there will be newer arenas and those old arenas in the cities I mentioned will have lost their lustre. The NHL southern expirement will eventually be outed as the failure it has been.

Facilities aside, there still are increasing populations in the southern and western US, as opposed to the north. There are many factors outside of climate, like little union influence, lower tax base, and lower real estate costs. You are from Canada, so you may not know the changing demographics of the US. I will give Zeigler credit as he knew where people where moving to (and it wasn't Saskatoon).

This thought is that the expanding populations will have the income to watch the NHL and place their kids in junior programs. Honestly, I do not know what PHX has, but the Bay Area has build quality youth teams and Dallas has as well. The problem is that with lower taxes and non-union shops, is that employers offer lower wages. The cost to see an NHL game is still high as they need more money from their live gate to be profitable as opposed to the other three (NFL,NBA,MLB).

And why should a city be responsible to build a facility for an owner who can sell his/her team for much more then when they build it when the city have to take it in the a$$ on all facility income. Especially since arenas are normally vacant 50% of a year. Why? How many events does Corel Centre have a year and if the MTS Centre replaces the Moose with a NHL team, how many other days can they fill? Jobing.com Arena fails since there is another facility in downtown PHX which is closer to Sky Harbor airport, a convention center, hotels, and has better parking (believe it or not). Location is just part of it as you can look at the new Cowboys Stadium and see their problems in filling non-sport dates; some of their concert choices (the non-country ones) this summer are questionable.

[The_Admiral]

Tough to believe that the Florida Panthers are anything other than irrelevant. I can't think of a team as mired in apathy as that one, in any of the Big Four. They're the next to go.

[oakland ehs]

The Hamilton Steelheads- from the TV series "Power Play" 1998-2000

I LOVED that show.

[Drew22]

BigMac, please stop posting in these threads, you are making the few coyotes fans on this board look bad. Seriously how have you not been suspended for your actions I have no clue

I think, considering the other thread, he doesn't make Coyotes fans look bad, he makes Christians look bad.

Indeed.

Honestly, if Atlanta got contracted, I know the diehards would be upset, but outside of that, the reaction would be little. Like "That's too bad, wonder why?" Then they move on.

[Gary]

I would argue that the trend of American cities building sports pleasure palaces may be coming to an end. There has been a fairly pronounced backlash against them in the last few years, and that trend will likely only grow as the recession continues.

What about when the arena's in Sunrise, FL/Glendale, AZ/Atlanta, GA/Nashville, TN get too old? Will local government invest a ton of cash to rebuild an arena for a team nobody goes to see? I doubt it. In 10-15 years, there will be newer arenas and those old arenas in the cities I mentioned will have lost their lustre. The NHL southern expirement will eventually be outed as the failure it has been.

Facilities aside, there still are increasing populations in the southern and western US, as opposed to the north. There are many factors outside of climate, like little union influence, lower tax base, and lower real estate costs. You are from Canada, so you may not know the changing demographics of the US. I will give Zeigler credit as he knew where people where moving to (and it wasn't Saskatoon).

This thought is that the expanding populations will have the income to watch the NHL and place their kids in junior programs. Honestly, I do not know what PHX has, but the Bay Area has build quality youth teams and Dallas has as well. The problem is that with lower taxes and non-union shops, is that employers offer lower wages. The cost to see an NHL game is still high as they need more money from their live gate to be profitable as opposed to the other three (NFL,NBA,MLB).

And why should a city be responsible to build a facility for an owner who can sell his/her team for much more then when they build it when the city have to take it in the a$$ on all facility income. Especially since arenas are normally vacant 50% of a year. Why? How many events does Corel Centre have a year and if the MTS Centre replaces the Moose with a NHL team, how many other days can they fill? Jobing.com Arena fails since there is another facility in downtown PHX which is closer to Sky Harbor airport, a convention center, hotels, and has better parking (believe it or not). Location is just part of it as you can look at the new Cowboys Stadium and see their problems in filling non-sport dates; some of their concert choices (the non-country ones) this summer are questionable.

There I will disagree, outside of hockey Jobing.com Arena is the premeire venue to go to for concerts, where there are more people want to go there for events and concerts and are willing to book them in advanced because it is a great place to go to, and has won the best concert venue twice since it has opened, and while Westgate is young, they are building a convention center and will have 2 more hotels. Jobing.com is not a fail as a whole, great place to go to for whatever and the Westgate City Center is considered outside the Los Angeles hot spot as the best place to go to in the southwest.

[DustDevil61]

As one from southern Utah, with the Coyotes being the nearest team, I am kind of sad that they could very well be leaving, but I think there needs to be more Canadian teams in the NHL. I'd personally want the Coyotes to move to another western U.S. city (if they must leave Phoenix), such as Portland, Las Vegas (might as well as the city has no other major pro sports and the league is "eyeing" them and Vegas is in the same region as Phoenix--you could even keep the name), or Salt Lake City.

That said, Hamilton is a deserving city for an NHL team because it has a history in the league and hockey is the national sport in Canada. Why deny a city with a lot of potenial just because it's not an American city? The only thing I can agree with Bettman on is that he won't let a team move unless it's a "last resort" (unlike the NBA in the Sonics case), but I do think that some relocations are necessary in N.A. sports, and at least 2 or 3 of the "Sun Belt" teams in the NHL need to move, and Phoenix is certainly a borderline Sun Belt city in my book.

For the record, here's my opinion on the Sun Belt cties and their viability:

Stable

--Dallas (r.i.p. North Stars)

--Tampa Bay

--Carolina (r.i.p. Whalers)

--San Jose

--Anahiem

--Los Angeles (the original Sun Belt city)

Borderline:

--Phoenix

--Nashville

Unstable

--Atlanta

--Florida