Back In The Game?

[The_Admiral]

Same franchise....does that count?

No. Excuse me, sir, but we're not here to celebrate the Winnipeg Jets. The entire sports section of the Internet celebrates the Winnipeg Jets. Right here and now, we are celebrating the decorated legacy of the Phoenix Coyotes, fullstop.

DVD BONUS FEATURE MEMORY: Claude Lemieux is one of my favorite hockey players. At one time, he was a Phoenix Coyote. I think.

[Sodboy13]

There has not been a single successful ownership decision made since that time, and the fans have disappeared. Making no effort to put a winning product on the ice is no way to draw fans.

Until they make that effort, it's simply unfair to judge the market.

This is a valid point. I feel, however, it is irrelevant to the desire for the current franchise to remain in Phoenix. In fact, it may serve as evidence as to why the team needs to leave town. When all you've ever given the market is bad, it leaves quite the impression, and burns a lot of bridges - assuming they were ever built in the first place. Barring a Rocky Wirtz-esque undertaking by a new owner with a rock-solid commitment to Phoenix, it may be best for Phoenix to follow the Denver model: wave bye-bye to your bad, bad franchise, sit out for several years while keeping things up on the minor league level, and then court a franchise with ownership that actually seems to know what it's doing.

[STL FANATIC]

There has not been a single successful ownership decision made since that time, and the fans have disappeared. Making no effort to put a winning product on the ice is no way to draw fans.

Until they make that effort, it's simply unfair to judge the market.

This is a valid point. I feel, however, it is irrelevant to the desire for the current franchise to remain in Phoenix. In fact, it may serve as evidence as to why the team needs to leave town. When all you've ever given the market is bad, it leaves quite the impression, and burns a lot of bridges - assuming they were ever built in the first place. Barring a Rocky Wirtz-esque undertaking by a new owner with a rock-solid commitment to Phoenix, it may be best for Phoenix to follow the Denver model: wave bye-bye to your bad, bad franchise, sit out for several years while keeping things up on the minor league level, and then court a franchise with ownership that actually seems to know what it's doing.

You too make a valid point. I just think it's unfair to Phoenix to act like they're a market unable and unwilling to support an NHL franchise. They've never really been given a chance.

Even acknowledging your point, put a playoff team on the ice and I think fans begin to show.

[SenatorJake]

There has not been a single successful ownership decision made since that time, and the fans have disappeared. Making no effort to put a winning product on the ice is no way to draw fans.

Until they make that effort, it's simply unfair to judge the market.

This is a valid point. I feel, however, it is irrelevant to the desire for the current franchise to remain in Phoenix. In fact, it may serve as evidence as to why the team needs to leave town. When all you've ever given the market is bad, it leaves quite the impression, and burns a lot of bridges - assuming they were ever built in the first place. Barring a Rocky Wirtz-esque undertaking by a new owner with a rock-solid commitment to Phoenix, it may be best for Phoenix to follow the Denver model: wave bye-bye to your bad, bad franchise, sit out for several years while keeping things up on the minor league level, and then court a franchise with ownership that actually seems to know what it's doing.

That seems like a pretty sensible option and an accurate interpretation of the franchises' current status in Phoenix.

[The_Admiral]

Of course, the catch-22 there is that if a franchise ownership knows what it's doing, then it's not considering a relocation to Phoenix, Arizona.

[STL FANATIC]

Of course, the catch-22 there is that if a franchise ownership knows what it's doing, then it's not considering a relocation to Phoenix, Arizona.

Why's that?

The decision was that Winnipeg couldn't support a team no matter how good the fans were or how good the team was.

[Sodboy13]

You too make a valid point. I just think it's unfair to Phoenix to act like they're a market unable and unwilling to support an NHL franchise. They've never really been given a chance.

Even acknowledging your point, put a playoff team on the ice and I think fans begin to show.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. It's not that Phoenix is a bad hockey town, it's that they're a town unwilling to support the crapfest the Coyotes have been. And as Lee alluded to, the crappiness here dates back to, oh, '79ish.

Favorite Coyotes memories:

- Hearing Jim Hughson say "Teppo Numminen" on NHL 99.

- Dustin Byfuglien lighting them up for a hat trick early on in his rookie year.

- Gretzky's sweater vests.

- The 9-1 Sunday night shellacking referenced by the admiral previously.

- Getting an original Starter authentic off eBay for under 50 bucks.

- Getting one of the new authentics for $36, and finding out the sand colored parts of the crest and shoulder patch are actually made out of micro-suede.

- BigMac412's posts.

[Sodboy13]

Of course, the catch-22 there is that if a franchise ownership knows what it's doing, then it's not considering a relocation to Phoenix, Arizona.

Why's that?

Possibly due to looking at previous tenants' negotiations with the City of Glendale... that's another hurdle we haven't discussed. Would another owner agree to anything remotely close to the conditions Glendale imposed on the Coyotes? And would Glendale wise up the second time around?

[The_Admiral]

One of my friends went to college in St. Louis and attended a Blues game. I asked him, "who'd they play?", and he replied "the Phoenix Coyotes."

[nwtrailtrekker]

This is why, as a Pheonix fan, that this is so hypocritical; they ask for Phoenix, Carolina, Atlanta, etc, but thou shall not harm the Kings, Sharks, Stars, Blues, etc.

1. The Kings run the Staples Centre, they're fine. If they've been in no danger of relocation for 42 years, they're in no danger now.

don't tell this to Supersonics fans...

[crashcarson15]

Let's share our favorite memories of the Phoenix Coyotes, if this is truly the end of an era.

One time this year, the Blackhawks beat the Coyotes and Wayne Gretzky got mad and felt the Hawks were running up the score. I think Bryzgalov got knocked out of the game.

Thus concludes my memories of the Phoenix Coyotes. What are yours?

Finally weighing in here... I think we are going to start to see more franchises in the NHL (Florida and the Isles come to mind right away as well as Atlanta, well and Nashville) be forced into relocation if they can't put a much better product on the ice. This year my Jackets showed that if you can put a winning team on the ice (2nd half of the season-with the OSU buzz over people recognized what this team was doing) people will come out and support you. The attendance figures for the whole season wouldn't show you that but it was just great seeing Columbus come alive this past few months for the Jackets.

Also, I forget who it was that said that Nashville would move to the Pacific Division-here's a question would they be able to afford the extra trips? I think they would but I don't know exactly what's involved in that.

[Lee.]

This is why, as a Pheonix fan, that this is so hypocritical; they ask for Phoenix, Carolina, Atlanta, etc, but thou shall not harm the Kings, Sharks, Stars, Blues, etc.

1. The Kings run the Staples Centre, they're fine. If they've been in no danger of relocation for 42 years, they're in no danger now.

don't tell this to Supersonics fans...

Yeah, well, the dump that is Key Arena isn't exactly a moneymaker.

The Staples Center is a revenue machine. Laker rent, events, etc, all add up to profits for the Kings, no matter what happens.

[njmeadowlanders]

I'll counter with

[TFoA]

Someone on ESPN said that they should merge the Kings and Ducks.

Stupidest idea ever, but I shouldn't be surprised seeing where it came from.

[TFoA]

The Thrashers did get some pretty good support when they won the division a few years ago...but until the Atlanta Spirit fixes themselves, gets a clue about hockey, and fires Don Waddell, that franchise is going to continuously spin its wheels in the mud. That's probably not going to happen, so I wouldn't be surprised if they were a prime candidate for being relocated/contracted.

As far as the Coyotes are concerned...I can understand if they get put in Ontario...but not Winnipeg.

[crashcarson15]

FWIW I found some interesting statistics on attendance figures for minor league teams here. They have statistics for the AHL, ECHL, IHL, and the CHL.

Hershey is #1 drawing almost 9,000 people a game. Fort Wayne, yes Fort Wayne is second drawing around 7,800 people a game. Just some interesting facts to look at.

[thestockholmpig]

If there were to be a second team in the Greater Toronto Area, and we were to also factor in this nostalgia for the "jets" moniker...

Could the team be nicknamed the Arrows in honor of this beauty?

That would actually be pretty cool.

Hamilton Arrows would be great!

[josh_cat_eyes]

This is a response to all the citizism about my comment last night. I am saying, in general the south is the problem, but the Islanders are an exception. If you have anything specific to say about my comment, PM me and I will talk. My opinions are A)The NHL needs to expand! B)The NHL needs to relocate C)The NHL needs more teams in Canada.

My comment last night was just expressing the way I felt about those specific topics at the specific time. I often think about the NHL needing to do some of the things I mentioned, and my opinions and statements can very at different times. Just ask me about any one of them and I'd be happy to debate with you.

[DEAD!]

If there were to be a second team in the Greater Toronto Area, and we were to also factor in this nostalgia for the "jets" moniker...

Could the team be nicknamed the Arrows in honor of this beauty?

That would actually be pretty cool.

It would be cool.... only if the team moves to Mississauga.

[HedleyLamarr]

Also, I forget who it was that said that Nashville would move to the Pacific Division-here's a question would they be able to afford the extra trips? I think they would but I don't know exactly what's involved in that.

I don't see why not. All it means is one extra West Coast trip...or one extended West Coast trip. They'd basically become Vancouver....playing a schedule full of extended homestands and road trips.

It's probably cheaper for Nashville to travel to Dallas and California than it is to travel to Colorado, Minnesota, and northwest Canada....and they wouldn't have to factor in more time-consuming trips though Customs.

However, instead of three home dates with Detroit and Chicago, they're getting an extra home game with fan bases not known for their travelling....Nashville ownership won't like that at all.

If Phoenix does relocate to southern Ontario and the NHL feels the need to realign the divisions, some team will wind up getting screwed. Colorado might move to the Pacific, and either St. Louis or Nashville gets placed in the Northwest, and Atlanta or Pittsburgh winds up in the Western Conference.