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Linus

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"Out of the way." Okay, I'm looking at Google Maps. Relative to other metropolitan areas with hockey teams, Greater Phoenix isn't even that big! It's just a little cluster of ring-road expressways and long straight Cartesian roads. Their arena, adjacent to the Cardinals' stadium which people sometimes manage to attend, is right off a goddamn expressway! There's an exit right there and everything! People talk about the Coyotes as playing "in the desert." To hear it from some people, the arena is actually located smack-dab in the middle of a freaking desert. It's not really that far from anything, especially in a new American city where there's no traditional "city center" as we know it like there is in a New York or Boston or Philadelphia or Washington. And besides, who doesn't have to go "out of the way" to go to a game, in any sport? Getting to a place where 20,000 other people are simultaneously trying to go is kinda not easy. Whether that means living in the city and dealing with trains, or driving in from the burbs, attending a sporting event isn't exactly like swinging through the bank. Look at Wrigley Field. Driving there is a pain in the ass because you have to find a parking space somewhere somehow without paying $100 for the privilege. Nonetheless, 41,000 people find a way to do it 81 times a year. Look at Gillette Stadium! Talk about "out of the way," it's in the middle of absolute butt:censored:ing nowhere because Kraft wouldn't or couldn't buy real estate closer to Boston, and yet those jerks manage to drive all the way from Boston and environs to that big inaccessible blotch of sprawl. I don't buy it with the Marlins, I don't buy it with the Coyotes, I don't buy it with anyone. "Out of the way" is never an excuse.

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You're right of course, but the NHL being so obtuse as to not let Balsille in through normal channels -- especially when he wants to buy a product no one else wants -- is glaringly stupid.

No one is being obtuse or stupid. The NHL doesn't want a team in Hamilton or the Coyotes to move unless it's on their terms. And those terms do not include "let someone who has pissed us all off before use bankruptcy court as a backdoor around the league bylaws".

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You're right of course, but the NHL being so obtuse as to not let Balsille in through normal channels -- especially when he wants to buy a product no one else wants -- is glaringly stupid.

No one is being obtuse or stupid. The NHL doesn't want a team in Hamilton or the Coyotes to move unless it's on their terms. And those terms do not include "let someone who has pissed us all off before use bankruptcy court as a backdoor around the league bylaws".

Well it's stupid to let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Phoenix is a sinking ship, and Balsille is offering the NHL a way out.

Let's let bygones be bygones and make some money, huh?

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You're right of course, but the NHL being so obtuse as to not let Balsille in through normal channels -- especially when he wants to buy a product no one else wants -- is glaringly stupid.

No one is being obtuse or stupid. The NHL doesn't want a team in Hamilton or the Coyotes to move unless it's on their terms. And those terms do not include "let someone who has pissed us all off before use bankruptcy court as a backdoor around the league bylaws".

Well it's stupid to let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Phoenix is a sinking ship, and Balsille is offering the NHL a way out.

Let's let bygones be bygones and make some money, huh?

But there's more money to be made off of expansion fees, which is the other rub.

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Looks like the answer to this thread's question is "no."

Yep, that seems to be the case.

Despite the fact that the Jets had thousands of people trying to save the team, it seems that a few hundered Arizonans spoke louder. Somehow.

This league is planning on staying in southern markets, so it better start getting used to staying south when it comes to profit. And interest. And likability. :unsure:

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Despite the fact that the Jets had thousands of people trying to save the team, it seems that a few hundered Arizonans spoke louder. Somehow.

You can have save the team rallies all you want, that doesn't change the fact that Winnipeg simply wasn't a viable major league pro sports market by the time the Jets left town.

And again, no one "spoke" today about where the team is going or not going. This was not a referendum on who likes hockey more or who deserves a team more. The ruling simply made clear that the NHL gets to decide ownership/relocation of its franchises.

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I wonder if the Coyotes are going to get a television deal signed now. I haven't heard anything about FSArizona picking them back up.

Too bad the Jets were never able to assemble a steady slate of telecasts. They probably could've claimed all of Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Northwestern Ontario as their viewing area. Maybe even the Dakotas, if they were allowed to pick up a Canadian cable channel. Add all that up and you'd have a fair-sized chunk of hockey viewers. That revenue stream sure would've helped.

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Despite the fact that the Jets had thousands of people trying to save the team, it seems that a few hundered Arizonans spoke louder. Somehow.

You can have save the team rallies all you want, that doesn't change the fact that Winnipeg simply wasn't a viable major league pro sports market by the time the Jets left town.

And again, no one "spoke" today about where the team is going or not going. This was not a referendum on who likes hockey more or who deserves a team more. The ruling simply made clear that the NHL gets to decide ownership/relocation of its franchises.

Have to disagree somewhat with the not a viable market comment for Winnipeg. At the time, Winnipeg was still viable from a fan base perspective but there was no one local who wanted to step up and write the check. At the time there was talk of community ownership. That works for the CFL where the cap is $4 or $4.5 million but it would not of worked then and will not work now. Winnipeg knows now what it lost and would fight tooth & nail to not let it happen again if given the chance. The same old issue however is still in the cities way. There is no one there that will cut the check.

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Despite the fact that the Jets had thousands of people trying to save the team, it seems that a few hundered Arizonans spoke louder. Somehow.

You can have save the team rallies all you want, that doesn't change the fact that Winnipeg simply wasn't a viable major league pro sports market by the time the Jets left town.

Ironic, then, that the team should have moved to a market which proved itself equally unviable.

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Despite the fact that the Jets had thousands of people trying to save the team, it seems that a few hundered Arizonans spoke louder. Somehow.

You can have save the team rallies all you want, that doesn't change the fact that Winnipeg simply wasn't a viable major league pro sports market by the time the Jets left town.

Ironic, then, that the team should have moved to a market which proved itself equally unviable.

I would say it's more than equally unviable. Were the Jets losing $30 million a season in Winnipeg?

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Despite the fact that the Jets had thousands of people trying to save the team, it seems that a few hundered Arizonans spoke louder. Somehow.

You can have save the team rallies all you want, that doesn't change the fact that Winnipeg simply wasn't a viable major league pro sports market by the time the Jets left town.

Ironic, then, that the team should have moved to a market which proved itself equally unviable.

I would say it's more than equally unviable. Were the Jets losing $30 million a season in Winnipeg?

Not quite, but I know ownership :censored: a brick when they signed Tkachuk to that huge contract to keep him out of Chicago.

I've already posited on what happened in Winnipeg to make the Jets leave town. Shenkarow wanted to sell, the Minneapolis deal fell through, and Phoenix stepped in. Shenkarow made a lot of money, Phoenix ownership realized that the NHL wasn't the Roadrunners playing in the War Memorial, and problems resulted.

And yes, "Coyotes" was picked as a team name because of the Roadrunners. Too bad they never remembered that the Roadrunner always foiled that silly-ass dog at the end of the day.

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And yes, "Coyotes" was picked as a team name because of the Roadrunners. Too bad they never remembered that the Roadrunner always foiled that silly-ass dog at the end of the day.

Beep Beep!

coyote.jpg

Had you seen the time at the America West Arena? The team was viable when they were winning.

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And yes, "Coyotes" was picked as a team name because of the Roadrunners. Too bad they never remembered that the Roadrunner always foiled that silly-ass dog at the end of the day.

Beep Beep!

coyote.jpg

Had you seen the time at the America West Arena? The team was viable when they were winning.

You have numbers to back that up? Could just be that once the shine wore off, the market lost interest. The Coyotes made the playoffs in 2001-2002, and were still second-to-last in attendance.

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"Out of the way." Okay, I'm looking at Google Maps. Relative to other metropolitan areas with hockey teams, Greater Phoenix isn't even that big! It's just a little cluster of ring-road expressways and long straight Cartesian roads. Their arena, adjacent to the Cardinals' stadium which people sometimes manage to attend, is right off a goddamn expressway! There's an exit right there and everything! People talk about the Coyotes as playing "in the desert." To hear it from some people, the arena is actually located smack-dab in the middle of a freaking desert. It's not really that far from anything, especially in a new American city where there's no traditional "city center" as we know it like there is in a New York or Boston or Philadelphia or Washington. And besides, who doesn't have to go "out of the way" to go to a game, in any sport? Getting to a place where 20,000 other people are simultaneously trying to go is kinda not easy. Whether that means living in the city and dealing with trains, or driving in from the burbs, attending a sporting event isn't exactly like swinging through the bank. Look at Wrigley Field. Driving there is a pain in the ass because you have to find a parking space somewhere somehow without paying $100 for the privilege. Nonetheless, 41,000 people find a way to do it 81 times a year. Look at Gillette Stadium! Talk about "out of the way," it's in the middle of absolute butt:censored:ing nowhere because Kraft wouldn't or couldn't buy real estate closer to Boston, and yet those jerks manage to drive all the way from Boston and environs to that big inaccessible blotch of sprawl. I don't buy it with the Marlins, I don't buy it with the Coyotes, I don't buy it with anyone. "Out of the way" is never an excuse.

So you trust Google Maps instead of asking someone from Glendale who drives down to the area almost every week? I'm looking at this map and thinking how old is this? Everything that you say there is a desert, has a hotel, a spring training stadium, a high rise in construction, shops, restaurants. Doesn't even look like desert now. Dude this had to be taken a year ago. We weren't built in the late 1600's to 1700's and the Phoenix area is still growing, alot of cities here aren't even 100 years old and the oldest incorporated city is only 130 years old. Sorry Phoenix doesn't fit your mold, sorry you have to rely on a map that isn't even up to snuff.

We're still 12 years in, never had a chance to capitalize on the Coyotes success because it was never a great team in the later years(2002-2009). But yet everyone says Coyotes will never succeed. We're still in Generation 1 where there are young fans outweighing the older fans, there are many fans here that take their tikes to the game. Just because the attendance isn't thee doesn't mean the influence is. There are rinks here, junior league teams, AIA high school hockey. I mean if we were 20 years in I can understand, than I say get the Coyotes out of here, but we're still in the first generation of fandom here. It'll take time, team will make money. I am ally living in the city, working for the media, going to the games and actually seeing things that you don't.

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there are many fans here that take their tikes to the game.

Not that many.

Sorry, couldn't resist. :P

While it is true that you should expect to build a fanbase over time, you also need to see some progress. A playoff team shouldn't be second from the bottom at the box office.

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there are many fans here that take their tikes to the game.

Not that many.

Sorry, couldn't resist. tongue.gif

While it is true that you should expect to build a fanbase over time, you also need to see some progress. A playoff team shouldn't be second from the bottom at the box office.

Attendance, no there has been no progress, but in the way things have been building there has been. I'm not disagreeing with you, but everyone forgets the younger generation and how they are building towards what will be a great fan base that will take time to build.

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