Burmy Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 I love how AHL teams adopt the look of their parent club. I grew up with the mid-90's AHL and most teams during that era had the same exact or close-to design that their parent clubs had, sans some teams like the Beast of New Haven and Syracuse Crunch. Maybe I'm just used to it or something, but I like it a lot more than AHL teams adopting their own styles.Not me. You know why? AFFILIATIONS CHANGE! The fans like familiarity and knowing they'll still be cheering on the same team.(though I do think Providence and Worcester should update their looks to be more like the parent clubs'). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 I love how AHL teams adopt the look of their parent club. I grew up with the mid-90's AHL and most teams during that era had the same exact or close-to design that their parent clubs had, sans some teams like the Beast of New Haven and Syracuse Crunch. Maybe I'm just used to it or something, but I like it a lot more than AHL teams adopting their own styles.Not me. You know why? AFFILIATIONS CHANGE! The fans like familiarity and knowing they'll still be cheering on the same team.(though I do think Providence and Worcester should update their looks to be more like the parent clubs').Back in the 90's, they rarely changed. For most of the 90's, teams had their affiliates matched almost exactly like them because they weren't changing affiliations every year. For the most part, it was basically:Boston - ProvidenceBuffalo - RochesterCalgary - Saint JohnDetroit - AdirondackEdmonton - Cape Breton/HamiltonMontreal - FrederictonNew Jersey - Utica/AlbanyNY Rangers - Binghampton/HartfordSan Jose - KentuckySt. Louis - PortlandToronto - St. John'sWashington - PortlandThese ones are just off the top of my head, but I'm sure there's more. Teams just seemed to stick with their locations. There wasn't as much moving around. The remaining teams sprinkled their talent throughout the AHL, which I think is still common. Some teams (Los Angeles, Islanders off the top of my head) just never seemed to establish permanent AHL homes. On 4/10/2017 at 3:05 PM, Rollins Man said: what the hell is ccslc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-kj Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 St. Louis was Worcester. Buy some t-shirts and stuff at KJ Shop! KJ Branded | Behance portfolio POTD 2013-08-22 On 7/14/2012 at 2:20 AM, tajmccall said: When it comes to style, ya'll really should listen to Kev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Much like with minor league baseball, I think it's very case-by-case: some teams benefit from a system-wide identity and others don't. It's a matter of the parent team's brand recognition, the potential of the farm team's brand recognition, and the history of the affiliation. If you're a certain team in New England, you're probably better off being the Providence Bruins than the Providence RhodeDawgz or something. Meanwhile, the "Quad City Flames" doesn't have a whole lot of currency, since the Quad Cities area isn't considered a Flames hotbed now, it wasn't considered one before, and the Flames name is only middle-of-the-road when it comes to brand recognition. That was a case where they would've been better off keeping the Mallards name that the area knew. That was a case where they would've been better off keeping the team near other goddamn AHL teams in the first place. Up the road in Rockford, I'll break my own rule: the Rockford IceHogs is a pretty established commodity. However, the Blackhawks are more established, and "IceHogs" is a silly-ass name. Ergo, hook up with the parent club to be the Rockford Blackhawks.The Wolves have always been a cut above the rest when it comes to second-tier pro hockey, so prescribing the Thrashers' name and uniforms on them would be dumb. ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 1)Cincinnati RailRaiders. This would have been the cities 4th AHL team if it had sold enough season ticket deposits. Clearly not a lot of support there.This is the result of years of very intense competition/a full out market war between Cincinnati's two arenas, each of which fielded competing hockey teams. The net result was that fans of one were unwilling to support the other. In addition to this, folks were understandably reluctant to put down money for an affiliate-less team, especially as said state of affiliate-lessness thanks to the Mighty Ducks had led to the franchise taking the last year off. At no point was this because Cincinnati is a large city.2)Baltimore Blades, Baltimore Skipjacks, Baltimore Bandits. The city has had 3 different team, yet only 1 of them managed to stay afloat for any significant period of time. A team has not played in that city in over 10 years.One was an incompetently run WHA team, one AHL team (Clippers) was driven out by said WHA team, the Skipjacks were moved up to Portland to replace the Mariners, which had moved to Providence the previous year, and the Bandits were the aforementioned Cincinnati franchise taken out of there by the Mighty Ducks. As for why they haven't had a team since, the local arena could be charitably described as a hole.3)Jacksonville Barons. The long lasting Cleveland franchise lasted only one year in Jacksonville. They were forced to fold because of the bad attendances.The Barons went to a far Southern City after being driven out by the WHA, and the far Southern city wasn't ready to support hockey yet. However, IIRC their ECHL entry did pretty well at the gate in the 90s, until being aced out of a lease for the new arena. The team that did the acing out ended up migrating through a rolling succession of A level leagues before suspending operations for this season. 4)Kentucky Thoroughblades, Louisville Panthers. These teams played in cities pretty close together. Both did not do well. For example the Kentucky franchise averaged only 4,461 fans in its final season. The Louisville franchise last only two years before going dormant because of the lack of support.Whilst Lexington isn't a big city....San Jose took it upon themselves to migrate up to Cleveland and do their best to neglect and trash that market for minor league hockey as a replacement of the dead Cleveland Lumberjacks of the now dead and lamented true IHL. The Louisville Panthers were in the hands of Mostafa Afr, destroyer of hockey franchises, which is why they decided to pull the plug after two years of pronounced mismanagement.5)St. Catharines/Newmarket Saints. Dispite loving hockey in the area, attendances for both teams were dismal. The franchise lasted only 9 years total in the area before moving on to St. John's NFLD.Umm....that's not a big city, unless you live on PEI and think any municipality with more than 4 paved roads is a big city.EDIT-well Newmarket isn't, but they left St. Catherines because Buffalo played the "territorial rights" card after 4 years. On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh_cat_eyes Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 1)Cincinnati RailRaiders. This would have been the cities 4th AHL team if it had sold enough season ticket deposits. Clearly not a lot of support there.This is the result of years of very intense competition/a full out market war between Cincinnati's two arenas, each of which fielded competing hockey teams. The net result was that fans of one were unwilling to support the other. In addition to this, folks were understandably reluctant to put down money for an affiliate-less team, especially as said state of affiliate-lessness thanks to the Mighty Ducks had led to the franchise taking the last year off. At no point was this because Cincinnati is a large city.2)Baltimore Blades, Baltimore Skipjacks, Baltimore Bandits. The city has had 3 different team, yet only 1 of them managed to stay afloat for any significant period of time. A team has not played in that city in over 10 years.One was an incompetently run WHA team, one AHL team (Clippers) was driven out by said WHA team, the Skipjacks were moved up to Portland to replace the Mariners, which had moved to Providence the previous year, and the Bandits were the aforementioned Cincinnati franchise taken out of there by the Mighty Ducks. As for why they haven't had a team since, the local arena could be charitably described as a hole.3)Jacksonville Barons. The long lasting Cleveland franchise lasted only one year in Jacksonville. They were forced to fold because of the bad attendances.The Barons went to a far Southern City after being driven out by the WHA, and the far Southern city wasn't ready to support hockey yet. However, IIRC their ECHL entry did pretty well at the gate in the 90s, until being aced out of a lease for the new arena. The team that did the acing out ended up migrating through a rolling succession of A level leagues before suspending operations for this season. 4)Kentucky Thoroughblades, Louisville Panthers. These teams played in cities pretty close together. Both did not do well. For example the Kentucky franchise averaged only 4,461 fans in its final season. The Louisville franchise last only two years before going dormant because of the lack of support.Whilst Lexington isn't a big city....San Jose took it upon themselves to migrate up to Cleveland and do their best to neglect and trash that market for minor league hockey as a replacement of the dead Cleveland Lumberjacks of the now dead and lamented true IHL. The Louisville Panthers were in the hands of Mostafa Afr, destroyer of hockey franchises, which is why they decided to pull the plug after two years of pronounced mismanagement.5)St. Catharines/Newmarket Saints. Dispite loving hockey in the area, attendances for both teams were dismal. The franchise lasted only 9 years total in the area before moving on to St. John's NFLD.Umm....that's not a big city, unless you live on PEI and think any municipality with more than 4 paved roads is a big city.EDIT-well Newmarket isn't, but they left St. Catherines because Buffalo played the "territorial rights" card after 4 years.I was showing examples of how AHL hockey has failed in big cities. And you backed me up on all of them, except, #5, I was referring to it as part of the Golden Horseshoe, being a big area. And I was using both teams as an example together for #4. And for your information, I know the difference between a big city and a small city. I just was not defining how "big" I was referring to. Also, if the AHL "does well" in big cities, I am asuming you are saying that since I am saying the opposite, than why is there not yet another team in Baltimore, why is there 1 team in Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, and no teams in hockey crazy Minnesota, Indiana, Kentucky, Kansas, Missouri, Quebec, Halifax, Cincinnati, Richmond, Kansas City, Oklahoma City, Memphis, Omaha ect. Basically what I am getting at by saying "The AHL does not do well in "big cities" is that, generally, the AHL focuses on smaller cities. Yes, I know there is are teams in Houston, San Antonio, Chicago, Cleveland, Providence, Toronto, ect. But if you don't agree that the AHL focuses for the most part, on smaller cities, than I don't know what league you are following. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh_cat_eyes Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Sorry. Double post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 St. Louis was Worcester.Yeah, I meant Worcester. Thanks for catching that! On 4/10/2017 at 3:05 PM, Rollins Man said: what the hell is ccslc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Your school's a large tree stump out in the woods, isn't it? Reading for comprehension....a skill that you have not reflected in your posts.I was showing examples of how AHL hockey has failed in big cities. And you backed me up on all of them, except, #5, I was referring to it as part of the Golden Horseshoe, being a big area.You missed the part about the NHL parents (or in one case, the ownership group) playing critical roles in the survival or lack thereof of these franchises. The sins of the front office do not reflect on the viability of the market; indeed one of the biggest threats to any AHL team's survival is apathy towards promotion and putting on a show on the part of the NHL parent if it owns a team. Calgary and San Jose are NOTORIOUS for this, and under Disney's ownership, the Mighty Ducks were bad as well. In many cases, if these teams had local ownership that cared about the team's survival, the story would be different.And I was using both teams as an example together for #4. And for your information, I know the difference between a big city and a small city. I just was not defining how "big" I was referring to.Okay...I'm going to define "big" right now as being major league-size or very near that. (As in, we have discussed putting a major league team in some sport there.)Also, if the AHL "does well" in big cities, I am asuming you are saying that since I am saying the opposite, than why is there not yet another team in Baltimore,Ummm....the aforementioned arena issue? Granted, if that is ever rectified I pretty much guarantee that the AHL will try everything within its power to once again set up shop there.why is there 1 team in Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa,Well...Michigan likes their beer league hockey, on top of dying a massive economic death, Wisconsin really only has two good markets, and the other one has a big time Division I program, which means you don't stick a team there, and Iowa had two teams before Calgary destroyed a market.and no teams in hockey crazy Minnesota, Indiana, Kentucky, Kansas, Missouri, Quebec, Halifax, Cincinnati, Richmond, Kansas City, Oklahoma City, Memphis, Omaha ect.No place to put the team, Fort Wayne is opposed to playing in a league with a PHPA deal and Indianapolis' arena is locked down by a junior team, there aren't enough franchises to go around, Kansas City is looking for a NHL team, this Peoria fan would like you to not mention Missouri at all, the Quebecois very much prefer the Remparts in particular and major junior hockey in general, the same goes for Halifax except replace Remparts with Mooseheads, there aren't enough franchises to go around and the AHL doesn't want to reopen the market war, there aren't enough franchises to go around and some poorly run UHL and SPHL entries did the trick on that one, wait till next year on Oklahoma City, there aren't enough franchises to go around for Memphis, and for Omaha, blame Calgary-destroyer of markets and killer of fanbases.Basically what I am getting at by saying "The AHL does not do well in "big cities" is that, generally, the AHL focuses on smaller cities. Yes, I know there is are teams in Houston, San Antonio, Chicago, Cleveland, Providence, Toronto, ect. But if you don't agree that the AHL focuses for the most part, on smaller cities, than I don't know what league you are following.That is because a certain select portion of the AHL's ownership groups are enamored with being a bus league in general and not venturing west of the Appalachians and South of the Mason Dixon line in particular, and therefore insist on having 8 teams in New England and 5 teams in New York. And since they OWN the teams, you aren't exactly going to free the teams up for moves to larger towns. On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian in Boston Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 If you're a certain team in New England, you're probably better off being the Providence Bruins than the Providence RhodeDawgz or something.Providence's current AHL franchise should have been named the Providence Reds from the minute it took the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee. Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 If you're a certain team in New England, you're probably better off being the Providence Bruins than the Providence RhodeDawgz or something.Providence's current AHL franchise should have been named the Providence Reds from the minute it took the ice.Agreed. There simply aren't enough rooster-based logos in pro sports. Welcome to DrunjFlix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waleslax Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 I was there when the A-Wings left town. Even though I'm not in the area anymore, I'm really glad a team will back in Glens Falls. I went to college outside of Albany and we regularly drove up to A-Wings games; it was a smaller more intimate arena and a rabbid fan base that really loved their team. I also saw that the players were very involved in the community.The other great thing about minor league hockey in that teams are close enough to travel by bus from location to location and don't need to stay overnight. In a league where profit margins are are razor thin, that means a lot.Oh yeah, people, you are missing an "s" at the end of the name. GlenS Falls. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glens_Falls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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