Rebranding the MLB: Part 8

[chickenfish13]

I agree with you both Elliott and GBM. Many designers are better than me here, but I still agree. I use Inkscape, and it is very easy to learn, and produces nice concepts, unlike paint. (Although I have seen some nice concepts from paint.) I just think people should really try hard to produce something nice ( like you, meaning you do a nice job ) instead of slapping something together. And I know, because I speak from experience, I used to just slap things together. I am trying to become more patient and produce nicer work.

I always get excited when a top designer posts a new concept, but I cringe when I see another recolor concept.

Not trying to be offensive to anyone, Just posting what I think.

B.T.W, Elliott, I have loved all your MLB concepts so far, and can't wait to see more.

[Anubis2051]

elliott, I am new to the site, but I have to say, your redesigns are one of the reasons I became hooked. I LOVE them. Please don't end this series. Looking forward to seeing what you do with the yanks!

[Shumway]

I'm not a big fan of the updated Wahoo, actually. I'm really not sure what it is, but it just looks strange and kind of unifinished, I guess, to me. I do, however, really like what you've done with the uniforms. My only minor gripe is that the striping/piping on the jerseys, pants, and socks could use some red. If you don't want to go with the sandwich route (i.e. blue/red/blue, white/red/white, etc.), you could go with something kind of like Georgia (Univ.) pant stripes, with two different colored stripes. Another minor thing is to maybe tone down the outline on the numbers, but it's not a huge problem.

As for who to do next, my vote goes to the Buccos.

[chestnutz]

I quite like your updated Wahoo. I found through my Indians concept that it's really hard to improve on the current Wahoo. Just something about it makes it perfect the way it is.

As far as the concepts section going down the drain, I tend to agree. I haven't been here as long as some (actually 2 years a few days ago, happy anniversary to me ) but the quality of concepts produced has been significantly worse than when I first came. I'm not trying to be harsh to the users out there who post concepts, but like GBM said, I only click on roughly half of the threads a day, if that. Too many sig series, paint redesigns, all that. I would never want to call anyone specific out so I won't post examples or anything like that. Maybe it's that some of the "elite" designers have stopped posting, and it's a damn shame cause those guys were the ones that got me addicted to this site in the first place, and got me to where I am today. I feel like there are a lot of new guys that have just joined and are excited and all giddy from joining the forum and seeing great designers post stuff, and that snowballs into a bunch of threads by people I've never heard of and frankly, don't impress me much. I probably sound like a huge ass right now, but I figure I might as well say it. elliot, I feel your pain about the posts. It's annoying as hell to see literally, a recolor of a logo, get a good 20+ comments, and I'll get 6 for something I really put some work into. Really, people posting on a recolor only encourages that kind of stuff, and if we want to "save" the concepts section, then we need to encourage good, well-thought out, well-presented concepts.

Done.

[RaiseTheBanner]

Woah, that was a major kick in the stomach, and I'm pretty discouraged right now. Yeah, I can agree with almost every point made by elliot and gingerbreadmann, though. I did have an MLB series going, doubt anyone remembers it (haha) but I think I'll add to it only when I feel like it. This has given me some new ideas and hopefully headed me in the right direction. RTB

[bigmike]

I really love this whole concept, I was wanting to do something very similar for my Indians concept by using that Indians script. I like Chief Wahoo the way he is but your update is very nice too, alot cleaner. I can't wait too see more.

I notice that alot of times people like you will make some of the best concepts around this bored and get like 1 page full of comments, while noobs or someone else will post a concept that is either a re-color or something very sloppy and they will get about 3 pages of concepts, most of them filled of people griping over how bad it is. I've noticed there are alot of MLB concepts going around right now too. It makes me feel kind of bad that get some comments for a set I may just re-color and not change very much in my MLB thread, but I'm just trying to create a clean concept that I think might look good for that team even if it is just a tweak. I use paint also and can't create the great logos you come up with, but I think that paint isn't a bad thing to use, you just have to make it as clean as you can, and that's what Ive tried to do and use other programs with it, I noticed chickenfish said you can prouce nice concepts in inkscape but not paint, but that's not entirely true, I've seen a number of good concepts done in paint. Inkscape is just a step ahead because it is vector. I've been trying to learn inkscape for about half a year now, and I'm still clueless how to use it, even watching gbm's videos, I know about it some more but I just cant get comfortable using it, which might just be that I'm so comfortable using paint now that I just am too set on using it's tools and not inkscapes, I dont know but all I'm trying to say is elliot you produce some if not the best concepts around here, and you shouldn't stop doing them, even if a recolor or a not so nice concept gets more comments. Because half the time those comments on the recolors are negative. Sorry for going on and on...Can't wait to see more of this series.

[vicfurth]

That's part of the reason (aside from school) that I all but stopped my series which had been going for over two years.

It's the whole "Meh, he posted something good that I can't rip apart" mindset that has this board on a dangerous path. I may sound like a broken record, but I got sick of putting effort into different jerseys that nobody cared about. Sure, I wasn't going for new logos (aside from some scripts) but I still put effort into stuff that went completely unnoticed.

As for your stuff, I agree that the Chief Wahoo needs a "cheek tweak", as it were. The near side of his face looks good, but the far side looks like Cruella De Vil.

[elliott]

chesnutz, I agree with you on all counts, I joined about the same time as you and I was immediately fascinated with some of the designs of the best concepteers on here. I remember the first few concepts I ever saw, some of speedy's NHL concepts and a Ghettofarmboy design I believe, and I wanted to do the same. Unfortunately some of these "elite" don't post anymore, but it kinds makes you wanna follow in their footsteps though, you know? I feel like you and I and quite a few others in the same "age group" could, like, take up the vacant spot, eventually.

Bigmike, you make some of the best paint concepts here, so don't lump yourself in. It is obvious that you take time and put in effort to your concepts and that is what I, personally, would like to see more of.

Vicfurth, it really is a shame that you stopped doing your series because you had great designs. But I can see why you stopped. I feel hypocritical because I haven't had the frustration that you have, but I do feel your pain.

[chickenfish13]

Bigmike, I meant that I think it's easier to produce better concepts in Inkscape than in paint. But there are a couple users who do a really nice job in paint, you being one of them.

[chestnutz]

chesnutz, I agree with you on all counts, I joined about the same time as you and I was immediately fascinated with some of the designs of the best concepteers on here. I remember the first few concepts I ever saw, some of speedy's NHL concepts and a Ghettofarmboy design I believe, and I wanted to do the same. Unfortunately some of these "elite" don't post anymore, but it kinds makes you wanna follow in their footsteps though, you know? I feel like you and I and quite a few others in the same "age group" could, like, take up the vacant spot, eventually.

Bigmike, you make some of the best paint concepts here, so don't lump yourself in. It is obvious that you take time and put in effort to your concepts and that is what I, personally, would like to see more of.

Vicfurth, it really is a shame that you stopped doing your series because you had great designs. But I can see why you stopped. I feel hypocritical because I haven't had the frustration that you have, but I do feel your pain.

Definitely agree with you there. It's human nature to group people into different, well, groups, and that's no different here. It may sound weird, but I've really grouped some users together, due to age, postability (I totally just got that from Bud Lite's drinkability), quality of the work, all that. You, me, eRay, GBM, scottysprings, off the top of my head but there's a bunch more. So I'll definitely try to do my part to help the boards along, even though it may be a minuscule difference.

And bigmike, don't get me wrong, there are definitely some quality posters who use paint and have some great concepts. You're one of them, so keep at it, and learn Inkscape while you're at it

[gingerbreadmann]

Open Circle time, everyone!

I think bigmike nailed it in multiple ways. Yes, Paint is not an excuse for lazy concepts. There is a lot of good stuff you can do with paint. And see, I need to do a better job on my videos so people can understand Inkscape better. And finally, many obviously lazy or half-assed concepts get a lot of publicity, but it is still bad publicity. It's always easier to go after a negative than have a positive be commended, and this is true all across life. (Don't believe me? Try being a ref in any sport.)

Also, vicfurth's comment:

It's the whole "Meh, he posted something good that I can't rip apart" mindset that has this board on a dangerous path. I may sound like a broken record, but I got sick of putting effort into different jerseys that nobody cared about. Sure, I wasn't going for new logos (aside from some scripts) but I still put effort into stuff that went completely unnoticed.

I think is the biggest issue here. A lot of my concepts are just uniforms and I hardly ever get more than 4 or 5 responses, even though I put in a lot of effort. I'm not saying I deserve more, but even if you put a lot of justified effort into a relatively slight or subtle change, it gets lumped in with the recolors in terms of genuine feedback. The recolor would get a lot more response, but like I said, it would be getting ripped (which also isn't always warranted). I really don't know what any type of solution is unless either more "elite" designers start posting more stuff, which nobody besides them can control, and helping people individually commit to more higher-level concepts. If every concept is in the same boat as vicfurth's or mine, that will become the standard and will hopefully get the response they may or may not deserve, because there is less to rip. Does that make sense? I don't think we can make some people stop ripping lazy concepts, but if we all help each other out, then I think everyone will benefit in multiple ways.

I also agree with you chestnutz, though I don't know if you're only talking about relating us in terms of concepts, cause I feel "close" to a lot of people around here who are relatively near my age, even though I don't know you that well IRL -- including you, elliott, Drew, Maz, lopernv, scotty, Kevin, etc. (great, now I want to meet you guys in person ) -- I don't know if they feel the same way, but it's easy to see those sort of groups. I won't lie, I kind of lump together all the "paint users" who are pretty much all younger than me even, there are a lot of you guys, and it's unfair for me to do so, but I also see a lot of you are friends anyway (and I think we have some brothers here too). Most of you have been great at listening to feedback and stuff, and I don't want to be mean or condescending or anything, but I think if we take all your guys' passion for concepts and give you some advice here and there, the future of this board could be very promising.

Now that was awkward. I also want to avoid any mention of any "CCSLC Young Guns" organization -- real or fictional -- I was not around for that and I don't want to get into it, ever.

[CAB]

Well, after reading all this, it kinda makes me want to "save the Concepts forum" too. I will try to make all my future concepts as clean as I can and with most of my concepts I want to start from scratch. Me, being a paint user, I have never really tried to use another program, because paint is what I am most comfortable with. I encourage everybody to try as hard as they can on every concept, no matter what program you use.

[tBBP]

Interesting...the curve this topic took.

Having said that, I'll throw out a few points to contribute:

- I myself have noticed a considerable decline in the overall "quality" of posted concepts--but I've also seen a lot of new names pop up over the past year or two, and my guess is that they've all had ideas brewing and, like most of us "regulars" did during our CCSLC "infancies", are just as anxious to bang 'em out and post them as we may have been as noobs. That being the case, I think it may simply be the noobs amongst us going through "growing pains" as part of their own individual evolutions. Given time, the work may generally improve.

- Everything is cyclical. So right now the "Concepts" section may be in a bit of a decline. I think I can recall that having happened a time or two before during my time here (I believed I first joined as a lurker sometime in the beginning of '06). But, without something of a "recession", there really can't be a "renaissance", can it? (For you art history buffs out there, you know what I mean--I believe that was one of the best artistic periods of all time.) Who's to say when that renaissance may occur? Maybe all it'll take is someone posting something that presents some new and fresh ideas for people to marinate on and then adapt to their own styles and whatnot--kinda like what I did when I introduced the whole "action template" thing. (A case example of this is both chestnutz and bohob; since those guys have gotten a hold of those, I've seen some of the most remarkable work on these boards out of those two.) So who's to say where the next great innovative idea or "creative sparkplug" might come from?

- No matter what the state of the concept game is right now (and right now I'm talking straight to elliott), continue to do you. Imma let you in on something: of all the concept posters I've followed since I've been here, your body of work is one of few that really stick out in my mind. And I can truly say that I've watched your work improve SIGNIFICANTLY over time--not that it was bad to begin with, but it's REALLY taken a jump of late, and this latest series is no different. Now, having said that, I can also say that same thing about the work of a few others, but at the risk of potentially ruffling some feathers, I'll just keep this @ you here, since this is your thread. In fact, if this partifular forum IS in a state of decline, perhaps your work can shine that much more.

In short, cat, don't get discouraged by the amount of replies you receive on your work. I can completely understand where you're coming from with that, because I've felt that way quite often myself (particularly with my HBCU Project). As someone mentioned before, it's easier to bash on something of wack quality rather than critique on work of decent quality (and if you need proof, take a look at this newest patsox spoof). But, just continue to do you, continue putting your best into it. Trust me, people are noticing. And I promise you I ain't the only one.

Who knows...maybe YOU'LL lead the next revolution???

[elliott]

Thanks bucco. That means a lot. The truth is, excellent concepts from you (and others) in the past have always inspired to me to go out on a limb, as I know you tend to do, specifically. So maybe my concepts will inspire others to be creative in the future, who knows, if so, that would definitely make me happy.

[joshhockey]

I really love this whole concept, I was wanting to do something very similar for my Indians concept by using that Indians script. I like Chief Wahoo the way he is but your update is very nice too, alot cleaner. I can't wait too see more.

I notice that alot of times people like you will make some of the best concepts around this bored and get like 1 page full of comments, while noobs or someone else will post a concept that is either a re-color or something very sloppy and they will get about 3 pages of concepts, most of them filled of people griping over how bad it is. I've noticed there are alot of MLB concepts going around right now too. It makes me feel kind of bad that get some comments for a set I may just re-color and not change very much in my MLB thread, but I'm just trying to create a clean concept that I think might look good for that team even if it is just a tweak. I use paint also and can't create the great logos you come up with, but I think that paint isn't a bad thing to use, you just have to make it as clean as you can, and that's what Ive tried to do and use other programs with it, I noticed chickenfish said you can prouce nice concepts in inkscape but not paint, but that's not entirely true, I've seen a number of good concepts done in paint. Inkscape is just a step ahead because it is vector. I've been trying to learn inkscape for about half a year now, and I'm still clueless how to use it, even watching gbm's videos, I know about it some more but I just cant get comfortable using it, which might just be that I'm so comfortable using paint now that I just am too set on using it's tools and not inkscapes, I dont know but all I'm trying to say is elliot you produce some if not the best concepts around here, and you shouldn't stop doing them, even if a recolor or a not so nice concept gets more comments. Because half the time those comments on the recolors are negative. Sorry for going on and on...Can't wait to see more of this series.

I agree with everything you said. I think of myself as a noob still and I've got 350 posts under my belt. Also, I completely agree with what you said about making the jump to Inkscape. I've been watching GBM's videos over and over but I just can't seem to get Inkscape.

[joshhockey]

Thanks bucco. That means a lot. The truth is, excellent concepts from you (and others) in the past have always inspired to me to go out on a limb, as I know you tend to do, specifically. So maybe my concepts will inspire others to be creative in the future, who knows, if so, that would definitely make me happy.

Sorry for another post already but, Elliott when I'm trying to make my concepts the best I can, I really try to think about what you and the other "elite" designers on here have done an I try to kind of model my concepts after some of yours and try to be as creative as you.

[gingerbreadmann]

Since reading this I am now 2 videos in to a basketball uniform concept walkthrough series. I really hope this will cover almost all aspects in a basic way of how to do concepts and that people will be more at home doing concepts than just basic stuff. Should be done pretty soon!

Also, B, your word is like gospel. Not just because you're the man, but I agree with everything you said, AND you come from a much more knowledgeable perspective than me. I'm glad you chimed in.

[Brass]

elliott, I love the red batting practice jersey! It's one that, if it was real, I would definitely consider purchasing. Overall, I like your concept and hell, I like the slight changes to Chief Wahoo! They may look minor league, but I think they look terrific!

BTW, please do not stop with the series. Yours is going really well and I can't wait to see the finished products of all teams. Also, not that anybody cares or anything, but I'm going to try to post more concepts as well. Ever since I switched to Mac, I haven't really found a program that I feel as comfortable with as I did with MS Paint. However, I'm going to give Inkscape a-go and see how I like it.

[cappital92]

I'm really not getting why people think the Concepts board is going down. If anything, with the new Paint and action templates, along with the Inkscape tutorials, I'd say it's in a bit of a boom lately. With people getting out of school for summer, I really can't see it dying down for awhile. The quality has never been an issue for me around here, as a clear majority of all the concepts were top-notch when I first joined, and it's only gotten better.

Now, about the concept. The Indian to me seems too dated to really update. It's a nice logo for 1969, but not 2009. I'd have to go with BBTV, and try to make another logo. That's all you really need, as everything else seems top-notch.

[ESTONES6]

hey i was hoping to do my own Indians rebrand/redesign. You think i could ask you a few questions? send me a message on here if you are willing to help just a bit. thanks.

Keep 'em coming!