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chickenfish13

Abbotsford Heat

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Terrible team name and terrible marketing plan by the Flames ownership. It's pretty obvious now that their plan all along was to recycle the parent club identity and cheap out with uniforms and brands despite their phony "name the team" contest and declaration that the team would have a separate identity. Considering the Flames past efforts in the AHL, the team's first priority will not be to win, so you have to wonder how this experiment will turn out. Will Abbotsford fans cheer for a team that looks like the Flames and is more concerned with development than being competitive? Will they support a franchise that seemingly doesn't care for them? We can only wonder.

Why didn't they just give the team an aviation themed name? That is what the local fans overwhelmingly want. They also could have easily swapped the red in their uniforms for another colour and kept the black and gold pants, helmets and gloves that the Flames use.

Isn't that kind of the point of a minor-league team?

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Terrible team name and terrible marketing plan by the Flames ownership. It's pretty obvious now that their plan all along was to recycle the parent club identity and cheap out with uniforms and brands despite their phony "name the team" contest and declaration that the team would have a separate identity. Considering the Flames past efforts in the AHL, the team's first priority will not be to win, so you have to wonder how this experiment will turn out. Will Abbotsford fans cheer for a team that looks like the Flames and is more concerned with development than being competitive? Will they support a franchise that seemingly doesn't care for them? We can only wonder.

Why didn't they just give the team an aviation themed name? That is what the local fans overwhelmingly want. They also could have easily swapped the red in their uniforms for another colour and kept the black and gold pants, helmets and gloves that the Flames use.

Isn't that kind of the point of a minor-league team?

In one sense, yes, you're absolutely right. But there's also a balance that has to be struck, one that Calgary doesn't seem to care a lick about. While developing that talent, it should also be important to develop a cohesive, and ideally winning, team identity on the minor-league level. The minor-league team should be promoted, and have things going for it on the ice, in the arena, and in the community to keep it viable.

The Flames' approach, however, has been closer to treating its team like an NFL practice squad. Wins and losses on the AHL level are inconsequential, because to them, the games are just glorified scrimmages. And there's no reason to promote or convince fans to attend, or keep attending, your scrimmages. That's why they've killed two markets in four years. And oddly, in that time, it doesn't really seem like they've developed much talent, either.

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most teams go with the same name for their AHL team like the WBS Penguins, Lowell Devils, etc...

Actually, that's decidedly not the case.

Of the 29 teams that took the ice in the AHL during the 2008-2009 season, just 6 used the same nickname as their parent-clubs: Binghamton, Lowell, Providence, Quad City, Wilkes-Barre/Scranton and Worcester. Meaning 23 AHL franchises employed nicknames different from that of their parent-club.

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Hmm. Well, at least its not the Flames, but I think it would have been wiser for a team in a Canucks market to avoid any identity associated with the Flames (heat, fire, inferno, etc, etc ), Calgary being the most hated rival of Vancouver. For jersey sales possibilities, I think they'd be smart to avoid a design that looks too much like the parent club's kit.

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actually ya good point... it would make more sense for the moose and abbotsford to switch parent clubs...

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I don't think it makes much sense for the Canucks to swap farm teams at this point. The Moose have great attendance, much better travel, and they are better established in their market. At this stage Abbotsford is just an experiment. There's no guarantee that they will do well at the gate and the travel issues could have a major affect on the ability of that franchise to compete and develop players. If the Canucks were interested they surely would have gotten first crack at Abbotsford. Obviously they are not at this point.

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I don't think it makes much sense for the Canucks to swap farm teams at this point. The Moose have great attendance, much better travel, and they are better established in their market. At this stage Abbotsford is just an experiment. There's no guarantee that they will do well at the gate and the travel issues could have a major affect on the ability of that franchise to compete and develop players. If the Canucks were interested they surely would have gotten first crack at Abbotsford. Obviously they are not at this point.

As a minor point of order, the Canucks would have to actually own an AHL franchise before they could consider or decline to consider Abbotsford. It does appear that they are indeed happy with Manitoba though, judging from their renewed lease.

I don't get the panning of their hypothetical use of the Flaming A. It's part of their history and a damn nice logo to boot. Why not embrace it?

Because it'd be more a symbol of Calgary's eternal cheapness in running their AHL team? If Calgary actually devoted money and resources to the team it might not have to move every two years n'est-ce pas?

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If the Canucks ever have an affiliate in BC it will be in Victoria. I think in the next few years, the NHL will be back in Winnipeg and the Canucks will push for RG Properties (the owners of the Salmon Kings and Save-On-Foods Memorial Centre in Victoria) to move the Salmon Kings to the AHL. It's been all over the rumors of the sports secion of the Times Colonist here for the past couple of years now. I think it's just a matter of time for when this becomes reality.

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If the Canucks ever have an affiliate in BC it will be in Victoria. I think in the next few years, the NHL will be back in Winnipeg and the Canucks will push for RG Properties (the owners of the Salmon Kings and Save-On-Foods Memorial Centre in Victoria) to move the Salmon Kings to the AHL. It's been all over the rumors of the sports secion of the Times Colonist here for the past couple of years now. I think it's just a matter of time for when this becomes reality.

Wasn't there some talk a few years back about the WHL returning to Victoria? Would Victorians prefer the WHL or the AHL?

Obviously the WHL was never going to be an option for Abbotsford, being so close to Chilliwack and Vancouver.

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Yeah the first choice for RG Properties was the WHL. At the time though, the WHL said there was no chance of any expansion at the time and no clubs were up for sale for relocation. This was in 2004. However, the WHL went back on there word on the not expanding thing and expanded to Chilliwak. Ever since the Cougars left Victoria for Prince George, the WHL has had it in for Victoria and has not wanted to come back here for some reason. There have been many attempts to buy an existing team like Tri-Cities, but all have been foiled by the WHL executives. A lot of Victoria hockey fans would prefer the WHL but they keep shafting us (and we don't know why) and so we will take what we can get right now.

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I'd imagine it's a bit of a pain in the ass getting to Victoria in the first place, what with the ferry schedules and all.

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Well they didn't have a problem with it up until 1994 when the moved. I think the main issue into why they moved was because they couldn't get a new arena at the time. Victoria is a terrific hockey market and for 10 years it was the only major city in Canada not to have a professional or major junior team. Ferry schedule isn't bad. They leave every odd hour and during peak times of the year, it's every hour.

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Well they didn't have a problem with it up until 1994 when the moved. I think the main issue into why they moved was because they couldn't get a new arena at the time. Victoria is a terrific hockey market and for 10 years it was the only major city in Canada not to have a professional or major junior team. Ferry schedule isn't bad. They leave every odd hour and during peak times of the year, it's every hour.

Other than it being the capital, though, is it really that major? I mean, it's the 17th-largest city IN BRITISH COLUMBIA, I don't think it can really count among other cities in the nation.

Not trying to be a dick, just pondering Victoria's real place among major Canadian centres.

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I'm not an expert on Victoria (far from it), but from what I understand, the Salmon Kings draw about 4,923 people per game. That would put them in the upper half of the AHL for attendance.

- Victoria's population is around 83,000

-The Quad Cities' population is at about 377,000 (they averaged 3,025 per game for the Flames)

- Victoria outdraws Quad City by nearly 2,000 people with an ECHL team. Surely they couldn't do any worse than the Flames, or in Lowell where they averaged a pathetic 2,293 fans.

You can put me in the group that believes the AHL could be successful in Victoria.

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It will work out in Abbotsford don't worry and there's no one else on this board to see it succeed more then me, A good NHL team starts with a Good AHL team and maybe our New Head Coach will think the same.

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I'm not an expert on Victoria (far from it), but from what I understand, the Salmon Kings draw about 4,923 people per game. That would put them in the upper half of the AHL for attendance.

- Victoria's population is around 83,000

-The Quad Cities' population is at about 377,000 (they averaged 3,025 per game for the Flames)

- Victoria outdraws Quad City by nearly 2,000 people with an ECHL team. Surely they couldn't do any worse than the Flames, or in Lowell where they averaged a pathetic 2,293 fans.

You can put me in the group that believes the AHL could be successful in Victoria.

Attendance numbers are not the whole story.

When the Flames came in....

1) They ditched a locally recognized and popular brand (Mallards) that had been established for more than a decade in favor of the cheapo moniker "flames" so they could use their own jersey template and presumably save money on buying the team identity.

2) Replaced a team that won a lot on the ice with a team that played like the Keystone Kops on the ice.

3) Did :censored: all to actually market the team locally.

Conversely....

1) The Salmon Kings have maintained their brand throughout their existence.

2) While they started out as the Keystone Kops on the ice, they have grown to an acceptable level of on ice winning albeit still being choke-slammed by Alaska more often than not.

3) Presumably market the team more than the Flames did (not hard).

Additionally...Victoria is on a literal island, halfway across the Continent from the nearest team whose middle-to-long term survival we can assure, in what is supposed to be a bus league. Travel just MAY become an issue. Conversely, Moline is fairly close to about half of their division, and Lowell has their entire division within easy bus travel range...as in you could probably sleep in your own beds most of the year if you play for the Devils. This helps you survive sub-3000 attendance.

NEW.ERA.PANDA-

History argues against you. Severely.

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Victoria's metro population is 383,000.

15th largest in Canada.

Double that of Abbotsford.

They also have an airport.

I would assume that an AHL team would be able to cut a deal with some airline to charter planes across the country like Abbotsford has. There are also smaller charters between the mainland and the island.

Optimally I would like to see Victoria with an AHL team and Abbotsford with an ECHL club. Who knows if Victoria will get the AHL, but its way more likely than Winnipeg getting an NHL team again.

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Victoria's metro population is 383,000.

15th largest in Canada.

Double that of Abbotsford.

They also have an airport.

I would assume that an AHL team would be able to cut a deal with some airline to charter planes across the country like Abbotsford has. There are also smaller charters between the mainland and the island.

Optimally I would like to see Victoria with an AHL team and Abbotsford with an ECHL club. Who knows if Victoria will get the AHL, but its way more likely than Winnipeg getting an NHL team again.

What part of "The AHL is still primarily a bus league" don't people understand? It doesn't matter how many people you have...what matters is that the closest team to you is in WINNIPEG. Followed by an arc of Milwaukee, Chicago, and Rockford. And maybe Iowa...depending on their current franchise status.

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Victoria's metro population is 383,000.

15th largest in Canada.

Double that of Abbotsford.

They also have an airport.

I would assume that an AHL team would be able to cut a deal with some airline to charter planes across the country like Abbotsford has. There are also smaller charters between the mainland and the island.

Optimally I would like to see Victoria with an AHL team and Abbotsford with an ECHL club. Who knows if Victoria will get the AHL, but its way more likely than Winnipeg getting an NHL team again.

What part of "The AHL is still primarily a bus league" don't people understand? It doesn't matter how many people you have...what matters is that the closest team to you is in WINNIPEG. Followed by an arc of Milwaukee, Chicago, and Rockford. And maybe Iowa...depending on their current franchise status.

What part of "Abbotsford don't play like that" don't you understand? They will be flying in and out for games and subsidizing travel for visiting teams. If Victoria is to get an AHL team they will follow a similar protocol.

Those are the prerequisites for an AHL team in BC. The league has accepted it. Why can't you?

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