Russell Martin Jersey

[Tentomushi5150]

Names at the end of the day are a means of identification. If a player has a nickname that has completely replaced a portion of their real name(such as Chipper Jones) that isn't an issue. It would be more confusing and thus counterintuitive to have them put their "real" but less identifiable name on their jersey.

As for Martin, I don't see the issue. If we allow for hyphenated last names, why not allow for an initial that does essentially the same thing?

[Wheelhouse]

Let me ask this: If the Brewers had two players named Hall, would you guys object to Bill Hall putting "B. Hall" on his jersey? His given name is William.

Right. But Bill and William are the same things. Bill is his name.

Larry Jone's name isn't Chipper. It's Larry. If he wants me to call him Chipper, he should have his name changed.

Wait, so you're saying if he introduced himself to you as Chipper, you'd still call him Larry? Why? Bill and William are not the same. They share three letters.

[BBTV]

Let me ask this: If the Brewers had two players named Hall, would you guys object to Bill Hall putting "B. Hall" on his jersey? His given name is William.

Right. But Bill and William are the same things. Bill is his name.

Larry Jone's name isn't Chipper. It's Larry. If he wants me to call him Chipper, he should have his name changed.

Wait, so you're saying if he introduced himself to you as Chipper, you'd still call him Larry? Why? Bill and William are not the same. They share three letters.

Yup. Bill and William are only the same because you're used to it. If my name is William and I don't care for the name Bill, and you call me Bill, trust me - I won't think they're the same.

Off topic - who determines the "official" nicknames for given names? Perfect example is "Bill". It's not like it's a shortened version of William - it starts with an entirely different letter. Most nicknames are just shortened versions (Andy for Andrew, Matt for Mathew, etc.), but "Bill" for William makes no sense.

[Gothamite]

And then there's "Liam" as well. So "William" can easily be shortened three ways, with three separate initials.

But if your name is William Smith, and you go by Bill, I'm pretty sure that the proper initial (in correspondence and the like) would still be W. Smith. Or even Wm. Smith. But not B. Smith - nicknames are by definition not for formal usage.

And maybe that's it - there is a time and place for formality. Monograms are one place, and so are NOBs.

Personally, I think this is a terrible idea. More self-aggrandizing crap.

Uniforms are not supposed to be about self-expression, or giving a player's relative a shout-out.

Russell, if you want to honor your mother, start a charity in her name. But leave the uniform alone.

Guy's putting his name on his jersey... what's the problem here?

He's using the jersey as a billboard, that's the problem.

Yes, for *his* name... when has this ever been a problem before?

Russell Nathan Jeanson Coltrane Martin, he's choosing to go by Jeanson Martin on the back of his jersey... again, I fail to see the issue with a baseball player wearing *his* name on the back of *his* jersey.

If it's not the name he goes by in the rest of his life, but rather he's trying to make some point, then yes. I have a problem with it.

The uniform is no place for a personal statement. As I said before, it's more self-aggrandizing crap.

[BBTV]

The Eagle's William "Tra" Thomas actually had "TRA THOMAS" as his NOB for several years before finally deciding to drop his nickname and go by his proper name, only to go back to Tra and have "T. THOMAS".

Name changes

Thomas' given name is William Thomas III; during the Ray Rhodes era, the Eagles had a Pro Bowl linebacker also named William Thomas. During his early years in the NFL, Thomas was referred to by his nickname, "Tra". However, before the 2006 season, Thomas requested to be called William Thomas. In April, 2008, he decided to return to Tra Thomas after the name William failed to catch on.

The super strict NFL allowed him to use a nickname.

[apeman33]

If there's a problem with "J. Martin" then is/was there also a problem with "Ichiro" and "Vida"? Those are their given names. They just happen to be their first names.

If it's my preference to be called "Bill" and you were going to make me put "W" on the back of my jersey, I'd call shenanigans. My mother made the first decision on what to call me. Then after about my 10th birthday I got more control over what people call me. I'm not ceding that to you or the commissioner of baseball.

If it's an invitation to a presidential dinner, "William" would be OK because it's formal. This is a baseball jersey we're talking about. What could be less formal than that? Probably only a basketball jersey.

Besides, most teams don't even bother with the initials anymore. The LaRoches don't have "Ad. LaRoche" and "An. LaRoche" on their jerseys.

[oddball]

And then there's "Liam" as well. So "William" can easily be shortened three ways, with three separate initials.

But if your name is William Smith, and you go by Bill, I'm pretty sure that the proper initial (in correspondence and the like) would still be W. Smith. Or even Wm. Smith. But not B. Smith - nicknames are by definition not for formal usage.

And maybe that's it - there is a time and place for formality. Monograms are one place, and so are NOBs.

Personally, I think this is a terrible idea. More self-aggrandizing crap.

Uniforms are not supposed to be about self-expression, or giving a player's relative a shout-out.

Russell, if you want to honor your mother, start a charity in her name. But leave the uniform alone.

Guy's putting his name on his jersey... what's the problem here?

He's using the jersey as a billboard, that's the problem.

Yes, for *his* name... when has this ever been a problem before?

Russell Nathan Jeanson Coltrane Martin, he's choosing to go by Jeanson Martin on the back of his jersey... again, I fail to see the issue with a baseball player wearing *his* name on the back of *his* jersey.

If it's not the name he goes by in the rest of his life, but rather he's trying to make some point, then yes. I have a problem with it.

The uniform is no place for a personal statement. As I said before, it's more self-aggrandizing crap.

So who's he trying to appear to be greater than? You? Because he wants to give credit to his mom in a unique way? He's a ballplayer who can do things that you can't do and he has the opportunity to put his mom's initial on his jersey to say, "Thanks Mom for the support you gave me" and you have a problem with that? It's not a political statement, it's saying, "Thanks Mom". I guess, because he can do it and you can't you think he has an attitude where he thinks he's better than the world. You could be farther from the truth. I suggest that instead of unjustly labeling someone as "self-aggrandizing", you get your butt down to the ballpark and go down during BP and meet the guy you are calling self-aggrandizing and see how self-aggrandizing he really isn't. I dare you to go talk to the guy. You know what, I know you won't do it because that would make you wrong and look like a jerk for calling him self-aggrandizing.

[cmm]

When Pepper Johnson was a rookie in 1986, he wore "T. Johnson" on his jersey (T for Thomas), including for Super Bowl XXI:

SB XXI

Eventually he was allowed to change to "P. Johnson", as seen in Super Bowl XXV:

SB XXV--Pepper on right, #52

As a fan, I'd rather he wear "P. Johnson" since that's what I know him as--Pepper, not Thomas. Just as I know Chipper Jones as Chipper (even though I'm a Mets fan) and would expect to see him in a "C. Jones" jersey instead of "L. Jones". Russell Martin as "J. Martin" is a little confusing at first, but I have no problem with it, especially since it's a part of his name. Just as long as you don't have anything outrageous, like Ted Turner's "Channel 17" idea, I'm cool with it.

[DelayedPenalty]

As far as I can tell from the Dodgers roster and depth chart, there is no other Martin on their roster, so why does he have his first initial on there anyways? I thought first names were only brought in when multiple players share a last name? Or can they choose to include first name?

[oldschoolvikings]

If there's a problem with "J. Martin" then is/was there also a problem with "Ichiro" and "Vida"? Those are their given names. They just happen to be their first names.

I don't believe "Ichiro" is a first name in the traditional western sense that we think of as a first name. But I could be wrong... that stuff is confusing to me.

[Audiodrama]

Tank Johnson and Pacman Jones have both been allowed to wear "T. JOHNSON" and "P. JONES" on their jerseys, respectively. Granted it's a different sport, but I don't see how this is any better/worse.

[CC97]

As far as I can tell from the Dodgers roster and depth chart, there is no other Martin on their roster, so why does he have his first initial on there anyways? I thought first names were only brought in when multiple players share a last name? Or can they choose to include first name?

Please read the threads before posting

[Still MIGHTY]

If there's a problem with "J. Martin" then is/was there also a problem with "Ichiro" and "Vida"? Those are their given names. They just happen to be their first names.

I don't believe "Ichiro" is a first name in the traditional western sense that we think of as a first name. But I could be wrong... that stuff is confusing to me.

Ya its the same as Yao Ming having "Yao" on his jersey.

The names are reversed basically.

SO techincally, in America they are Suzuki Ichiro and Ming Yao, but their given names are Ichiro Suzuki and Yao Ming.

It be like John Smith being called Smith John in Asia.

[DelayedPenalty]

As far as I can tell from the Dodgers roster and depth chart, there is no other Martin on their roster, so why does he have his first initial on there anyways? I thought first names were only brought in when multiple players share a last name? Or can they choose to include first name?

Please read the threads before posting

I've read every post...what am I missing?

[CC97]

As far as I can tell from the Dodgers roster and depth chart, there is no other Martin on their roster, so why does he have his first initial on there anyways? I thought first names were only brought in when multiple players share a last name? Or can they choose to include first name?

Please read the threads before posting

I've read every post...what am I missing?

The reason for why he has the initial and the fact that it isn't his first initial.

[MVP]

If there's a problem with "J. Martin" then is/was there also a problem with "Ichiro" and "Vida"? Those are their given names. They just happen to be their first names.

I don't believe "Ichiro" is a first name in the traditional western sense that we think of as a first name. But I could be wrong... that stuff is confusing to me.

Ya its the same as Yao Ming having "Yao" on his jersey.

The names are reversed basically.

SO techincally, in America they are Suzuki Ichiro and Ming Yao, but their given names are Ichiro Suzuki and Yao Ming.

It be like John Smith being called Smith John in Asia.

You have the Yao Ming part nailed correctly. But I believe the Japanese are different than the Chinese. Ichiro is the first name (John) and Suzuki would be the last name (Smith). So essentially, Ichiro has his first name on his jersey.

[The_Admiral]

No, his name is transposed into "Ichiro Suzuki" in Western parlance, but in Japan it would be written "Suzuki Ichiro," so he is, in fact, using his given name on his jersey.

EDIT: never mind I just saw the post above mine. yeah.

[-kj]

The player in Seattle's given name is Ichiro, Suzuki is his surname. In Japan, where surnames are usually first (reference on surnames), he would be referred to as Suzuki Ichiro; in western culture, that would become Ichiro Suzuki.

As for the name on his jersey, from Wikipedia:

It was during the 1994 season that he began to use his given name, "Ichiro" instead of his family name, "Suzuki" on the back of his uniform. Suzuki is the second most common family name in Japan, and his manager introduced the idea as a publicity stunt to help create a new image for what had been a relatively weak team, as well as a way to distinguish their rising star. Initially, Ichiro disliked the practice and was embarrassed by it; "Ichiro" was a household name by the end of the season and he was flooded with endorsement offers.

Yao Ming's given name is Ming; his surname is Yao, making the name on his jersey much more conventional. Interesting that there is no tendency in the West to call him "Ming Yao," unlike the reversal of Suzuki Ichiro.

[DelayedPenalty]

As far as I can tell from the Dodgers roster and depth chart, there is no other Martin on their roster, so why does he have his first initial on there anyways? I thought first names were only brought in when multiple players share a last name? Or can they choose to include first name?

Please read the threads before posting

I've read every post...what am I missing?

The reason for why he has the initial and the fact that it isn't his first initial.

Oh no, I got that part. I was the one who posted the reasoning behind the J. Why does he have an initial on his jersey if he's the only Martin, was my question? Last year he had R. Martin on his jersey, was there another Martin?

[The_Admiral]

Interesting that there is no tendency in the West to call him "Ming Yao," unlike the reversal of Suzuki Ichiro.

Do you think it has to do with immigration patterns and assimilation? Maybe since we've done so much business with Japan, they've gotten flexible with given/family order so that we North Americans don't get confused.