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rams80

The Memphis Tigers' very bad offseason just got spectacularly worse.

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So Derrick Rose is a dumbass, he is a great basketball player, and does not seem to be involved in anything criminal sso why should he be suspended?

Because willmorris said so, that's why!

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Of course he can. How does this pertain to his NBA career? It's high school stuff.
What he did tarnishes his image, and by extension, the image of the league as a whole. Of course he can punish him for conduct detrimental to the league.

How does another player demonstrating a lack of book smarts tarnish the league's image?

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Of course he can. How does this pertain to his NBA career? It's high school stuff.
What he did tarnishes his image, and by extension, the image of the league as a whole. Of course he can punish him for conduct detrimental to the league.

How does another player demonstrating a lack of book smarts tarnish the league's image?

In fairness to Will, it's not the lack of book smarts that tarnishes any image, it'd be the cheating.

But that's all I've got. Don't anticipate anything really happening to Rose.

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It's really not fair to make these guys keep up the farce of being "student-athletes." That "they get an education to fall back on" is a canard: their classes are the simplest fare, chosen because they can be scheduled around practice and games, the real reason the institutions of higher learning bring them in. "Intro to General Studies? But I wanted to sign up for Russian lit! I need to grow, sir!" is not something an advisor will often hear from a revenue-generator. Moreover, they're there for one year if they're worth a damn: half the freshmen on trajectories for actual degrees don't learn anything useful their first year of college, except how to drag themselves through basic daily functioning while in compromised states of being, and these days there's an Advanced Placement for that. Anyway, grades and SATs shouldn't have to be Derrick Rose's world, or any other prospect's, for that matter. It's silly.

Willmorris seems to exist alone on a plane of stupidity and rigid whiteness. The opinions he espouses here and elsewhere are so ignorant and impractical as to make one's brain liquefy and leak out the ears. It's astonishing.

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It's really not fair to make these guys keep up the farce of being "student-athletes." That "they get an education to fall back on" is a canard: their classes are the simplest fare, chosen because they can be scheduled around practice and games, the real reason the institutions of higher learning bring them in. "Intro to General Studies? But I wanted to sign up for Russian lit! I need to grow, sir!" is not something an advisor will often hear from a revenue-generator. Moreover, they're there for one year if they're worth a damn: half the freshmen on trajectories for actual degrees don't learn anything useful their first year of college, except how to drag themselves through basic daily functioning while in compromised states of being, and these days there's an Advanced Placement for that. Anyway, grades and SATs shouldn't have to be Derrick Rose's world, or any other prospect's, for that matter. It's silly.

Willmorris seems to exist alone on a plane of stupidity and rigid whiteness. The opinions he espouses here and elsewhere are so ignorant and impractical as to make one's brain liquefy and leak out the ears. It's astonishing.

If Myron Rolle (or, to use the basketball argument, Pops Mensah-Bonsu) could do it, why not expect it of everyone? They are called "student-athletes" in college, they should live up to the name - being students first and athletes second.

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If Myron Rolle (or, to use the basketball argument, Pops Mensah-Bonsu) could do it, why not expect it of everyone? They are called "student-athletes" in college, they should live up to the name - being students first and athletes second.

Myron Rolle was, quite literally, a 1 in 10,000 occurrence. Most people couldn't do what Myron Rolle did without the football part. To expect that of everyone is akin to expect everyone to come out of college displaying the intellect of Einstein or Hawking.

The whole "Student-athlete" thing is a farce in the money sports, and anyone who's ever spent time on a major college campus or has any functional brain cells has long admitted that. No series of wrist-slaps by the NCAA is going to change that culture, especially when tens of millions of dollars for each school are on the line. This may sound like a really weird parallel, but perhaps the NCAA could learn something from Mexican Soccer. There, you have professional teams like UNAM Pumas and Estudiantes that are affiliated with schools, really, in name only. Drop the facade, pay the players, and if said players want to attend school, provide scholarships and give them the tools to further their educations. If the player's dumb as a post but has a 4.2 40 and Krazy Glue hands, why should we give a crap about his attendance record in Geology 101?

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We don't require NHL prospects to spend a year or two as indentured revenue generators for universities. They play for--holy crap, get this!--HOCKEY TEAMS and they get a small stipend. They come out of it okay (unless they played for Swift Current), I think.

The point you're missing, Will, is that we call them "student-athletes" but we shouldn't because they aren't, and that's the doing of the athletic departments, not the students themselves, who are small cogs in the big bad NCAA machine. There are student-athletes on campus, but we're talking about a different breed here, revenue-generating athletes. "Getting an education just in case" is irrelevant to RGs at that point in their life. They are there for one reason and one reason only, and that is to develop their skills at a sport, one that makes money for their school.

People cry "well what if he blows a knee out? then what?" in defense of the student-athlete farce, these people generally being unwavering college sports fans who fear a change in the status quo. "Then what" is this: they wisely save the (or some) money from their signing bonuses or any salary down the line so that they have tuition money to spend on a legitimate education when they're at the point in life that they need one, be it at a trade school or community college or university or a sequence of them or whatever. I suppose at that point in life, college won't be the glorious bacchanalia that he would've experienced as an RG, but that's all the better in terms of actually acquiring knowledge and abilities at school.

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If Myron Rolle (or, to use the basketball argument, Pops Mensah-Bonsu) could do it, why not expect it of everyone? They are called "student-athletes" in college, they should live up to the name - being students first and athletes second.

I went to high school with a future NBA player. It was a joke that he "graduated" high school, much less "pass" any college courses. And I'm sure that's the case with the majority of big school players. Yes, there are a few that are wise enough to use their athletic skills to get a better education than they probably could otherwise. However the majority are there just to play their sport. Many basketball players don't use their degrees once they "graduate", they go play semi-pro ball or go overseas. It makes me some what sick to hear some of the stories from friends about the athletes at the University of Maryland. It's really a joke to refer to many of these guys as "student-athletes".

That's why I've really become a big fan of mid-major college sports (although I'm sure some of the better schools are just as bad as the big schools). I've been able to witness first hand at my own school that the athletes actually attend class and don't get off easy with the work. It makes me happy and proud to support the sports teams (something I can't say about my high school).

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As many athletes as there are that don't take classes seriously and all that, it's also wrong to stereotype them all.

First off, for all of them, even the ones that slack, they have crazy busy schedule between practice, class, and sometimes jobs. A schedule I could not be successful on unless I increased my effort towards school work.

Secondly, there's still plenty of athletes who do put hard work into their academics, even talented ones. Do the shoe-in NBAers usually do it? No (but that doesn't mean they're all terrible students either). But a lot of the guys who are even remotely borderline do put the effort in, and some go above and beyond. There's more than a few basketball at Illinois the last few years, talented guys (but not quite NBA caliber), who finished a degree and were already taking graduate courses or who double majored or even both. I'm sure that's the same at other schools as well.

And then, beyond that, let's not forget that outside of college football and basketball, the great majority of collegiate athletes, even at big time D-I schools have NO chance at a professional athletic career, and in that case, they're every bit a student as I or anyone else, plus they have a time consuming sport on their plate.

I know many slack or get help, but I think we should be careful to start painting them all in that light. It's not fair to the ones that do put the work in.

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As many athletes as there are that don't take classes seriously and all that, it's also wrong to stereotype them all.

First off, for all of them, even the ones that slack, they have crazy busy schedule between practice, class, and sometimes jobs. A schedule I could not be successful on unless I increased my effort towards school work.

Secondly, there's still plenty of athletes who do put hard work into their academics, even talented ones. Do the shoe-in NBAers usually do it? No (but that doesn't mean they're all terrible students either). But a lot of the guys who are even remotely borderline do put the effort in, and some go above and beyond. There's more than a few basketball at Illinois the last few years, talented guys (but not quite NBA caliber), who finished a degree and were already taking graduate courses or who double majored or even both. I'm sure that's the same at other schools as well.

And then, beyond that, let's not forget that outside of college football and basketball, the great majority of collegiate athletes, even at big time D-I schools have NO chance at a professional athletic career, and in that case, they're every bit a student as I or anyone else, plus they have a time consuming sport on their plate.

I know many slack or get help, but I think we should be careful to start painting them all in that light. It's not fair to the ones that do put the work in.

Exactly. Which is why I specifically mentioned the "money sports" and want there to be a protocol for athletes who want to further their education to have the ability to do so. For the top-end athletes, south of Peabody, athletics is their thing. Just like if you go north of Green, engineering is their thing. Anything outside of that field of expertise, or providing an essential base for that field, should be an elective.

And since the "tales of athletes in the classroom" ball has started rolling, I'll offer up that I once took a Speech Com course with a current NFL player. Upon entering college, he was diagnosed with a learning disability. To compensate for this disability, he was allowed to take his tests after everyone else in the class had, by himself, unsupervised. Did I mention that a member of the athletics department was taking the class with him?

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But even then, like I said, there's been some basketball (and probably football) guys who go above and beyond. As we know, Brian Randle's uber-talent never panned out, but he was a talented player and he double majored in ag-finance and something else...very legitimate mjors whatever they were. And I think it was Calvin Brock who was working on his grad degree this past year (granted, they were both 5 year guys...maybe more with the number of injuries they had).

But then you did say "top-end," so I'll grant you that. Dee Brown was an above average student, albeit in a major that many consider to be a blow off (I have some issues with that, as a lot of people not on scholarships spend a lot of money to get the same degree). But a guy like Deron Williams who was a very strong NBA prospect...well I never heard him get any academic accolades.

So I think it's safe to say that guys that have incredibly strong chances at a long professional athletic career probably put academics to the side most of the time. But a lot of the guys, even in the money sports, that don't have the same strong chances do put the work in on the academic side. Not that they're on the Dean's List or anything, but a lot of them are probably as good of a student as I am.

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I'm surprised STL FANATIC didn't get around to defending the student-athlete thing till Post #49.

And then, beyond that, let's not forget that outside of college football and basketball, the great majority of collegiate athletes, even at big time D-I schools have NO chance at a professional athletic career, and in that case, they're every bit a student as I or anyone else, plus they have a time consuming sport on their plate.

They're not part of the argument because they're not in sports that are being used as minor leagues for professional sports. It's like those unbearably sanctimonious ads the NCAA runs during March Madness, with the girl saying "most of us are going professional in something OTHER than sports." Well, no crap: you play badminton.

It would be interesting to amass some anecdotes about special dispensation for student-athletes who either aren't D-I revenue-generators, or are in Divisions II and III.

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Something wrong with defending it, Admiral?

They're not all cheating, slacking, scumbags, that's all my point was. And yes, if you read on, you probably saw how I acknowledged it was mostly the money sports being talked about and even said there's plenty of them who are decent students.

I apologize for not liking to see some people who don't deserve it painted with a broad negative brushstroke. Don't know what got into me.

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It just seems like your defense of the student-athlete system is based in your pride in your chosen university, which is fine, I guess, but this is one of the things we need to get over if there's ever going to be serious discussion of fixing this irreparably broken system. Too many people don't rail against the special treatment revenue-generators get because they fear it reflects on them as fellow students or alumni (which I suppose it just barely kinda does), so they do their part in propping up the farce.

Moving back from big picture to little picture, here's the real shame of the Derrick Rose thing. If you've followed his career, you know that his affairs have been meticulously managed by his brothers, who have done everything from keep him out of gangs during high school to making sure he's getting more substantial meals than gummi worms and Diet Coke. They appear to have had his best interests in mind and seemed to have done an exemplary job sheltering him from a lot of potential problems, but for all the good they've done, arranging for Rose's SATs to be taken on his behalf has done so much harm to his reputation. I can't endorse and condone identity fraud, but in the context of this ridiculous system, I'm willing to look the other way.

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It just seems like your defense of the student-athlete system is based in your pride in your chosen university, which is fine, I guess, but this is one of the things we need to get over if there's ever going to be serious discussion of fixing this irreparably broken system. Too many people don't rail against the special treatment revenue-generators get because they fear it reflects on them as fellow students or alumni (which I suppose it just barely kinda does), so they do their part in propping up the farce.

Understood, but it has far more to do with knowing things about certain athletes, even being in classes with some and knowing they're not all terrible students. Hell, I had a big group project due at the end of this last semester, and one of the WR on our Football team was in my group. Now he didn't have the largest most in-depth part, but he was the first guy to contact the group about meeting, and the first guy to submit his portion. Frankly, I was surprised, because I was expecting more of the slack-off type of mindset, and he didn't have it. You could tell it wasn't his favorite thing and he wanted it done, but all that meant was he made it a priority to take care of it.

And I'm certainly not suggesting U of I is any different than any other D-I one school. I'm suggesting that there's probably plenty of athletes, even in the money sports, that don't deserve this general disdain we show towards them for their academics. Now, are those usually the ones that have a guaranteed shot in high professional sports after college? Maybe not.

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