Replicas vs Authentics

[charger77]

For refrence, this is what he is talking about.

Here is a close up of the nameplate:

-Dan

[CanesCop86]

I am one of those guys where detail goes beyond anything else. I started collecting hockey jerseys years ago and when the switch was made to EDGE jerseys, i was disgusted. Not only was i paying more for the jersey but i got half-assed screened on shoulder logos and a thinner material that picks easier then pre-edge jersey. I have also heard horror stories from people that purchased customized jerseys from the OFFICIAL NHL shop. Jerseys that have the wrong lettering and screened on logos. It seems to me, that after the switch NHL seems like they are selling fakes. I refuse to pay almost 300 dollars for an edge jersey authentic, or a 115 not including customizate cost replica jersey, then have it piss poorly customized. When i started collecting MLB jerseys, I to this day avoid replica's. Majestic's recent replicas are not even replicas for the sake of the term. How could you call a jersey a replica but not include the freaking shoulder patch. Same thing as before, I refuse to pay almost 250 for an authentic. Thats why i buy Pre-edge jerseys in hockey and Russell Authentics or Majestic Authentics on Ebay. I have thought about buying a fake to compare it to the originals but i still cant bring my self to waste money on something i know isnt authentic.

[bryn456]

I'd never buy a fake, I'd feel wrong wearing one and wrong handing my money over to criminals. But at the same time I'd never pay $300 for a jersey. Instead I spend my $$ on older authentics (or badly listed newer authentic jerseys on ebay). I probably own 20+ now and have not spent more than about $150 on any of them.

I can still look like a 49ers fan whether I'm in a brand new authentic, or in a $20 Jerry Rice authentic from 1998.

[hjwii]

I will buy a replica, but I will not buy a knockoff. If I did, I certainly wouldn't brag about it on a board that has designers as members - designers who get robbed every time someone purchases an illegal fake. If you support anything that this board is about, I'm not sure how you can buy a knockoff and feel good about yourself.

So, if I understand you properly, you believe the designer of, say, Milwaukee's "ball in glove", gets a share or royalty of every product sold with that logo? I thought the logos/names/etc were the property of the league.

And, that being the case, who would be entitled to something like the the Red Sox's "B", which is almost identical to the Brooklyn Dodger's "B"; or something nondescript like Nebraska's plain block "N"?

Not so much disagreeing with you, but more playing devil's advocate...

[Gothamite]

It's about the principle of the thing. Either the concept of "intellectual property" means something to you, or it doesn't.

We presume that there's a higher level of concern over intellectual theft here, because so many posters have a personal stake in protecting their own property.

[BBTV]

I will buy a replica, but I will not buy a knockoff. If I did, I certainly wouldn't brag about it on a board that has designers as members - designers who get robbed every time someone purchases an illegal fake. If you support anything that this board is about, I'm not sure how you can buy a knockoff and feel good about yourself.

So, if I understand you properly, you believe the designer of, say, Milwaukee's "ball in glove", gets a share or royalty of every product sold with that logo? I thought the logos/names/etc were the property of the league.

And, that being the case, who would be entitled to something like the the Red Sox's "B", which is almost identical to the Brooklyn Dodger's "B"; or something nondescript like Nebraska's plain block "N"?

Not so much disagreeing with you, but more playing devil's advocate...

No, I doubt that they get royalties per item sold (unless they somehow get "points" or however that works.)

HOWEVER, if less revenue is generated from legit merchandise sales because people are buying illegally-reproduced items, then teams will pay designers less for their work because the return has diminished. So it is still sort of like stealing from the designer (among other people / entities.)

$300 jerseys are not a necessity in life. If the price point is so high, then don't buy them. There are many options other than supporting theft.

[hjwii]

Once again, I would like to preface this with: I'm not disagreeing with you; your arguments are valid. But, I have questions, and I am sure there will be answers.

Let me ask this: Kraft Mac N Cheese costs $1.00; store name brand costs 50 cents. For all practical purpose, Kraft invented the cheese and macaroni we know today. The store brand, although tasty, is lacking somewhat, but not enough to sway me to pay more for Kraft. Am I "stealing" from Kraft, or making a wise economical decision?

No doubt I will be pounced, pummeled and pounded. I respect the designers and creative people here; if I were to have a beef, it would be with the big business and their shoddy products.

Thank you all for humoring me... now, I'll go duck behind this chair over here...

[tBBP]

To the original point of this post, replicas vs authentics...

...this last turn in the dirt, I ended up joining into a little "club" of sorts to where I actually ended up getting some of my jerseys for about $20 off. Of the seventeen or so football jerseys that I have now (excluding the four or five Buccaneers jerseys), I think three are full-out authentics. All the rest are replithentics. I find this as a happy medium; the numbers look like full-twill drom a distance (the actual numbers themselves are sewn; however, it's just that one layer, and the other layers are "simulated"). And really, the only difference between those and teh full-out authentics, aside from the layered twill numbers, is the sleeve cuffs. On full-out authentics, the sleeve cuffs are ribbed, whereas the sleeves on replicas and replithentics are straight-sleeved. (I guess I should also add that those jerseys with sleeve stripes have them screened on rather than sewn in as part of the fabric.)

And actually, depending on the team, if you can look past the sleeve thing, you'd actually be saving a lot by going with a replithentic versus a full-out authentic. This works best for Steelers, Niners (now), Jets, Browns, and Colts jerseys (and Raiders black jerseys)...being that all of these jerseys have one-layer numbers.

There's my little jersey secret for you.

[Drew22]

My brother has a replithentic that he got when they shipped that to him instead of a replica. It looks exactly the same as an authentic, and it is only 99.99, not 249.99 or whatever.

[njmeadowlanders]

Once again, I would like to preface this with: I'm not disagreeing with you; your arguments are valid. But, I have questions, and I am sure there will be answers.

Let me ask this: Kraft Mac N Cheese costs $1.00; store name brand costs 50 cents. For all practical purpose, Kraft invented the cheese and macaroni we know today. The store brand, although tasty, is lacking somewhat, but not enough to sway me to pay more for Kraft. Am I "stealing" from Kraft, or making a wise economical decision?

No doubt I will be pounced, pummeled and pounded. I respect the designers and creative people here; if I were to have a beef, it would be with the big business and their shoddy products.

Thank you all for humoring me... now, I'll go duck behind this chair over here...

Well there is a difference here in that you're not talking about intellectual property. It's still macaroni and cheese albeit generic branded and tasting inferior to the branded Kraft. That's just competition.

With knock-off jerseys, they're taking the logos and names of teams and using them to make their knockoffs. You'd still buy the generic mac 'n cheese, but would you buy a hockey sweater with a generic crest on it? Of course not. It's the team logo you want that's the main selling point.

Now if the supermarket brand was marketing themselves as "Kraft" that's another story...

[Sodboy13]

And actually, depending on the team, if you can look past the sleeve thing, you'd actually be saving a lot by going with a replithentic versus a full-out authentic. This works best for Steelers, Niners (now), Jets, Browns, and Colts jerseys (and Raiders black jerseys)...being that all of these jerseys have one-layer numbers.

There's my little jersey secret for you.

And don't forget the Packers. Picked up a Bart Starr throwback replithentic/EQT on eBay for 50 bucks recently, for exactly the reason you stated. (And because I can't abide by a Packers jersey with only three stripes on the sleeve.)

[crashcarson15]

Yeah those "Premium" jerseys are the way to go for the NFL IMO.

[officeglenn]

Once again, I would like to preface this with: I'm not disagreeing with you; your arguments are valid. But, I have questions, and I am sure there will be answers.

Let me ask this: Kraft Mac N Cheese costs $1.00; store name brand costs 50 cents. For all practical purpose, Kraft invented the cheese and macaroni we know today. The store brand, although tasty, is lacking somewhat, but not enough to sway me to pay more for Kraft. Am I "stealing" from Kraft, or making a wise economical decision?

No doubt I will be pounced, pummeled and pounded. I respect the designers and creative people here; if I were to have a beef, it would be with the big business and their shoddy products.

Thank you all for humoring me... now, I'll go duck behind this chair over here...

But the store brand macaroni and cheese is not pretending to be Kraft Dinner. The store brand is not using blue-and-orange packaging or calling itself "Krafty Diner" in order to try and make some money off the backs of people who are too lazy or indifferent to make the distinction.

Look, it seems like you're just trying to somehow rationalize buying knockoff jerseys, which is fine -- it's a free country, and despite people's moral objections, it's something there will always be a market for. This is just the sort of place where that sort of thing would be frowned upon, mainly because these are the people from whom the money is being diverted.

[-kj]

"Kraft Dinner". How quaint.

[officeglenn]

"Kraft Dinner". How quaint.

Take off, eh?

[-(dp)-]

To the original point of this post, replicas vs authentics...

...this last turn in the dirt, I ended up joining into a little "club" of sorts to where I actually ended up getting some of my jerseys for about $20 off. Of the seventeen or so football jerseys that I have now (excluding the four or five Buccaneers jerseys), I think three are full-out authentics. All the rest are replithentics. I find this as a happy medium; the numbers look like full-twill drom a distance (the actual numbers themselves are sewn; however, it's just that one layer, and the other layers are "simulated"). And really, the only difference between those and teh full-out authentics, aside from the layered twill numbers, is the sleeve cuffs. On full-out authentics, the sleeve cuffs are ribbed, whereas the sleeves on replicas and replithentics are straight-sleeved. (I guess I should also add that those jerseys with sleeve stripes have them screened on rather than sewn in as part of the fabric.)

And actually, depending on the team, if you can look past the sleeve thing, you'd actually be saving a lot by going with a replithentic versus a full-out authentic. This works best for Steelers, Niners (now), Jets, Browns, and Colts jerseys (and Raiders black jerseys)...being that all of these jerseys have one-layer numbers.

There's my little jersey secret for you.

The problem with those is that the colors on the numbers fade pretty easily (only on the multiple colored numbers). I have quite a few of those, most of which are too small for me now. They are definitely better than the regular replicas, but there is still a big difference between those and the authentics. Agreed on the single color numbered teams, though. On those, they actually use colored twill, so they won't fade. I have a white Braylon Edwards one. Some more differences: Authentics use a much heavier material. Different teams actually have different types of mesh as well. (I have noticed at least 3 different kinds.) Then, chest wordmarks are all embroidered. (of the ones I have, the rams and Dolphins are almost more of an embroidered patch, the others are directly into the mesh. Sleeve logos are patches, instead of being screened on, except the Panthers, who have screened sleeve logos on the game jerseys too. Another is the spandex side panels, and the Cardinals even use the spandex material all the way up to the shoulder area on the authentics. There is a very big difference, but I would agree that single color numbered teams are very good at the replithentic level. I have, I think 10 authentic NFL jerseys, and have paid full price for 1, a new powder blue LT jersey when they first came out. The Reebok Store (which no longer sells authentic jerseys for some reason), and Eastbay, would sometimes have 40% off sales. I would buy 3 for around $440, so they were less than $150 each. I haven't bought a new jersey since that LT one, though. I haven't even gotten a new Lions jersey yet . I can post pictures for comparisons between the same jersey in a replithentic and an authentic (and in some cases a replica), if anyone cares to see them. I have no problem seeing people in replicas, but I hate seeing people in fakes. I would wear a replica before a fake any day.

Oh, and sorry Buc, if it seems like I was arguing with you. You made some good points that I was just adding to.

[tBBP]

No worries, young cat. Those were all good points.

And I knew I was forgetting a team (the Pack) in that list. (In fact, I'm thinking about snatching me a Aa-Rod replithentic here pretty soon.)

And speaking of the one-layer numbers, those of you in love with the Vikings throwbacks...yeah, I got one of those too. Actually, I had two, but my Ahmad Rashad jersey was a "laundry casualty" (hint: keep your womens away from your jerseys ). Still got the Fran Tarkenton, though.

And BF56...I think I might need to discuss that Errict Rhett jersey with you.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

$75 for cheap, screened-on NFL replica is a terrible deal, no matter how you look at it in any economy. Mass availability of NFL EQT for the same price point? I'd be on board with that.

[Roger Clemente]

To the original point of this post, replicas vs authentics...

...this last turn in the dirt, I ended up joining into a little "club" of sorts to where I actually ended up getting some of my jerseys for about $20 off. Of the seventeen or so football jerseys that I have now (excluding the four or five Buccaneers jerseys), I think three are full-out authentics. All the rest are replithentics. I find this as a happy medium; the numbers look like full-twill drom a distance (the actual numbers themselves are sewn; however, it's just that one layer, and the other layers are "simulated"). And really, the only difference between those and teh full-out authentics, aside from the layered twill numbers, is the sleeve cuffs. On full-out authentics, the sleeve cuffs are ribbed, whereas the sleeves on replicas and replithentics are straight-sleeved. (I guess I should also add that those jerseys with sleeve stripes have them screened on rather than sewn in as part of the fabric.)

And actually, depending on the team, if you can look past the sleeve thing, you'd actually be saving a lot by going with a replithentic versus a full-out authentic. This works best for Steelers, Niners (now), Jets, Browns, and Colts jerseys (and Raiders black jerseys)...being that all of these jerseys have one-layer numbers.

There's my little jersey secret for you.

The replithentics for the Colts and Jets aren't bad because those stripes on the shoulders are still the elastic/ribbed material that they are on the authentics as well. It's my main beef with the Steelers jerseys because their sleeve stripes on the authentics are also that elastic/ribbed material whereas on the replicas and replithentics is still those horrible sticky vinyl stripes that you find on every NFL and NBA replica (and those very cheap NHL ones they sell at Walmart, at least in Canada).

I only own one knockoff: a white Steelers Bettis 36 with the Super Bowl XL patch on it, and I didn't realize it was a knockoff until I received it. (Though I suppose the $60 pricetag was a tipoff, but it wasn't a BuyItNow price so I thought I may have scored a legitimate deal.) The only problems with it are with the collar of the jersey being too thin and the outer black layer on the nameplate actually being a stitched border as opposed to a layer of black twill under the yellow twill letters. Other than that, and the fact that no one I know personally who's seen me wear cares about it, I say it's rather nicely made for a knockoff. I won't willingly buy one again though.

[Sodboy13]

$75 for cheap, screened-on NFL replica is a terrible deal, no matter how you look at it in any economy.

Well, how about $80, then?

I know I've brought this up before, but I think it bears repeating. When I first got into jerseys back in '94, NFL jerseys were $40 across the board, and made by several manufacturers. In 2001, the standard screened replica sold for $45-$50, depending on manufacturer. In 2002, Reebok landed the exclusive NFL rights, and instantly, replicas went up to $65. By 2008, they were $80.

So, in the 7 years before the monopoly, jersey prices went up 25%.

In the 7 years from the monopoly on, prices went up 60%.

And more recently, we've seen Majestic cheapen their materials while maintaining the same price, and Reebok take NHL replicas from $90 to $120 from one season to the next while cheapening the materials. Oh, and don't forget the $450 authentic customized Winter Classic jerseys.

Exclusivity in production may provide a financial bump for the leagues, but they are a total screw job for the fan and consumer. But, until enough consumers wise up to the gouging, they'll continue jacking up the prices. As has been said already, you don't need to spend $300 on a jersey. I'll add to that by saying that with the internet, eBay, and a sharp eye for short-time sales, you don't need to ever spend retail for a jersey, and you don't have to go the counterfeit route to find a spiffy deal.