Eagle Logo

[Spammy]

Hey guys. I have been working on this concept for like a month now and I need help. Anything I try to do makes it look terrible. I dont know why,I cant explain why but the whole thing looks like compared to everyones... I guess it looks kinda flat and stuff but compare to logomans or CDixons or anyone and it looks like crap... Im losing hope in my graphic design ability... I cant even make colors look good. So can you please give me some type of C+C?

Here is the logo ive been working on...

~Sam~

[9erssteve]

Hey guys. I have been working on this concept for like a month now and I need help. Anything I try to do makes it look terrible. I dont know why,I cant explain why but the whole thing looks like compared to everyones... I guess it looks kinda flat and stuff but compare to logomans or CDixons or anyone and it looks like crap... Im losing hope in my graphic design ability... I cant even make colors look good. So can you please give me some type of C+C?

Here is the logo ive been working on...

~Sam~

Okay first tip I'd give would be research, and lots of it! By that I dont mean exclusively looking at other sports logos, you have to be able to understand exactly what characteristic make the item in question recognisable and then portray these in their simplest form. What is your logo meant to be? Okay, sorry that sounded crueler than I meant, I can tell it's a bird, but which species of bird is it? I could guess and say because it's golden it's meant to be an eagle, but right now it would be just a guess. The shape you have is generically bird like, but there are no specific clues as to it's species.

You need to go off and do lots of research from photographs to find out what it is that defines whatever creature (if it's a creature based name) you're using. From these photo's you'll also get clues as to how shading can be applied. Take for example the Philly Eagles logo, they've used the white head of the eagle as a natural place to separate the head from the body and used the same stylised feather shapes for shading and texture.

I think the reason you're struggling so much is because you are trying to draw this completely from memory, working from research is the only way to get really strong results. It's not cheating provided you dont straight up copy someone else's work. If you work from photos to begin with rather than other logos you'll get a real sense for what you are trying to create and it will help you find your own style as well.

Research, I cant recommend it enough, it was drummed into me on a daily basis during my degree and as much as it used to annoy the hell out of us to be told it everyday, it's the truth, it will make your work stronger, much much stronger.

9erssteve

[Bmac]

Specifically, the top of the beak is a little pointed and there isn't much detail, unless you were going for that.

[JayJaxon]

You gotta think about it this way Sam; You are 13 years old. I would have given my right arm to start doing graphics design at 13. Think about how good you will be at 27 (My age) if you continue to work on it and get better. Guys like Logoman and CDixon are two of the best so of course it's gonna look like crap compared to them. Most people's work looks like crap compared to them haha. So don't look at it as comparing one designer to another. Look at it as comparing some of your earlier work to now. As long as you are doing better now than you have in months past, you are already on the right track.

So with that said, just take the advice given to you and don't worry because unless you refuse to practice, you are gonna get much better.

[OldRamsFan]

You gotta think about it this way Sam; You are 13 years old. I would have given my right arm to start doing graphics design at 13. Think about how good you will be at 27 (My age) if you continue to work on it and get better. Guys like Logoman and CDixon are two of the best so of course it's gonna look like crap compared to them. Most people's work looks like crap compared to them haha. So don't look at it as comparing one designer to another. Look at it as comparing some of your earlier work to now. As long as you are doing better now than you have in months past, you are already on the right track.

So with that said, just take the advice given to you and don't worry because unless you refuse to practice, you are gonna get much better.

That is one of the best posts I have ever read. Very encouraging, nice and helpful at the same time. If I could send you one of my freezer's ice cream sandwhiches as a reward, I would.

[OldRamsFan]

Okay first tip I'd give would be research, and lots of it! By that I dont mean exclusively looking at other sports logos, you have to be able to understand exactly what characteristic make the item in question recognisable and then portray these in their simplest form. What is your logo meant to be? Okay, sorry that sounded crueler than I meant, I can tell it's a bird, but which species of bird is it? I could guess and say because it's golden it's meant to be an eagle, but right now it would be just a guess. The shape you have is generically bird like, but there are no specific clues as to it's species.

You need to go off and do lots of research from photographs to find out what it is that defines whatever creature (if it's a creature based name) you're using. From these photo's you'll also get clues as to how shading can be applied. Take for example the Philly Eagles logo, they've used the white head of the eagle as a natural place to separate the head from the body and used the same stylised feather shapes for shading and texture.

I think the reason you're struggling so much is because you are trying to draw this completely from memory, working from research is the only way to get really strong results. It's not cheating provided you dont straight up copy someone else's work. If you work from photos to begin with rather than other logos you'll get a real sense for what you are trying to create and it will help you find your own style as well.

Research, I cant recommend it enough, it was drummed into me on a daily basis during my degree and as much as it used to annoy the hell out of us to be told it everyday, it's the truth, it will make your work stronger, much much stronger.

9erssteve

Very good advice!

(Especially coming from a 9ers fan! )

[CDixonDesign]

First and foremost, thanks for the compliments to each and everyone of you, It has honestly made my day to see you guys like my work, but I am no means close to being as good as some of the guys within this site, but we each have to be motivated to get better each and everyday....

With that being said Spammy, to be honest, the thing that holds me back that I think you can start improving upon is instead of jumping right into putting your logo on a computer, try working everything out on paper. If you can become proficient in becoming an artist, the Graphic part will come in time. I'd suggest learning drawing techniques, and working out everything on paper before attempting to put anything together on screen. You can always take the time to draw out basic shape, and attributes to your design, and simply scan in what you have, and recreate it, then taking the time to add the details like shading and perfecting. It's something that i've got to work on as well, as I feel like my ability to do logos in no where near as strong as say my wordmarks.

Think of it as this way. You're 13 years of age, and you're at the point where it wasn't too long ago that you started exploring this field. You wouldn't expect a 1 year old child to take up and run would you? You're young in skill, so take the opportunity to build a strong foundation of crawling before you try and pick up to run. A designer who's been doing it 5 or 6 years is more proficient because they're experienced. Don't become discouraged when you feel like you don't par up with others, simply tell yourself your crawling towards a goal, and one day you'll learn to run with some of the best....

Keep up your work, don't get discouraged, and keep designing, skill comes in time...

Clif

CDixonDesign

[logoman]

First, thank you guys for the nice words. Secondly, I'll echo the other advice in the previous posts.Sam, I'll say you should just take your time and grow into your design ability. I look at work by davidson, GhettoFarmBoy, gordie_delini and others and think, Why didn't I think of that"? or "I wish I would have done that". The key, for me anyway, is to always know there is someone out there who can make you look like an amateur.

I'm 43 years old and I have been doing this practically all my life - the last 15 professionally. I wouldn't expect you to know some of the things I do just like I don't know some things other designers do.Just keep practicing by drawing different designs before you sit down at the computer. (When I started doing this I didn't have the luxury of a computer). If you practice your drawing skills and then bring something you're happy with into the computer to finalize, you will see dramatic changes. Not to be discouraging, but keep in mind, not everyone sees things the way some designers do. You can work on forms and shapes and elements and eventually you will see patterns in logos - both corporate and in the sports world.

Most of all, though, just relax. You're 13 with a dad that's a head football coach. That would have been awesome to me when I was 13.

[9erssteve]

First and foremost, thanks for the compliments to each and everyone of you, It has honestly made my day to see you guys like my work, but I am no means close to being as good as some of the guys within this site, but we each have to be motivated to get better each and everyday....

With that being said Spammy, to be honest, the thing that holds me back that I think you can start improving upon is instead of jumping right into putting your logo on a computer, try working everything out on paper. If you can become proficient in becoming an artist, the Graphic part will come in time. I'd suggest learning drawing techniques, and working out everything on paper before attempting to put anything together on screen. You can always take the time to draw out basic shape, and attributes to your design, and simply scan in what you have, and recreate it, then taking the time to add the details like shading and perfecting. It's something that i've got to work on as well, as I feel like my ability to do logos in no where near as strong as say my wordmarks.

Think of it as this way. You're 13 years of age, and you're at the point where it wasn't too long ago that you started exploring this field. You wouldn't expect a 1 year old child to take up and run would you? You're young in skill, so take the opportunity to build a strong foundation of crawling before you try and pick up to run. A designer who's been doing it 5 or 6 years is more proficient because they're experienced. Don't become discouraged when you feel like you don't par up with others, simply tell yourself your crawling towards a goal, and one day you'll learn to run with some of the best....

Keep up your work, don't get discouraged, and keep designing, skill comes in time...

Clif

CDixonDesign

Excellent point, after research that's another thing I cant stress enough. Draw what you want out on paper first, and not just a quick sketch, I mean all of it, including line thicknesses and variations in line weights areas of light and shade the whole thing.

Why? Simple, it's faster for one thing, plus because it's faster you dont get attached to the piece the same way as you do with something you may have slaved over for hours on the computer. If you are less precious about your work you'll be more willing to admit something doesn't work and move onto another idea or version when things dont work.

Time to fess up here, I'm 31 and I dont always follow my own advice! Dont believe me? Go check the last concept I posted, the Trojans one. There are two versions in there. The first which didn't work and the second one which I'm far more happy with. Why? Well the first one was a simple line sketch which I thought would work so I scanned it and started work on the mac almost right away figuring that the shading and line thicknesses would work themselves out as I went along. WRONG! The more I worked into it the more things went wrong and the more cluttered it looked. What started out in the sketch as a single pencil line had to become two lines in actuality, each much much thicker than the pencil stroke I'd drawn and before I knew it things were growing horribly out of control!

Then to compound the problem when I wasn't happy with how things looked I tried to cut up the shapes in Illustrator and reposition the whole thing and threw all the angles off to hell! I should have gone back to the drawing board but I'd invested so much time on the computer I was almost unwilling to admit I couldn't save it and in the end made matters worse.

The second version I drew out completely line thicknesses all the shading the works! I had to draw and redraw it on trace paper numerous different times, adjusting and changing bits as I went along but no matter how drastic the change it was still much faster than making changes on the computer! It also meant that when I did take it onto the mac all the hard work had been done and all I was doing was recreating a clean vector version of something I already knew how to draw.

So as cool as computers can be they can also hold you back if you jump on there to soon. Look at picking up books such as How to Draw comics the Marvel way and others that teach you how to draw objects from basic geometric shapes, rather than just trying to follow an outline by eye. This will give whatever you are drawing more substance and give you a better idea of the underlying structure of whatever it is you are drawing, which will in turn make it easier to work out where shadows or highlights should be added to your drawing to make it look natural.

But most of all relax and have fun with this, at 13 your making a solid start. You've actually already done the hardest thing you'll ever do and that is ask for help and advice. It can seem intimidating to ask those with more experience "how can I improve?", and people are often insecure about sharing work in case it receives negative criticism, hell even I still get butterflies in my gut before showing a client work, but as long as you are willing to ask for help and take criticism for what it is, which is people trying to help you improve then you'll do just fine. But most of all make sure you have fun doing this because at the end of the day if you dont enjoy it then what's the point?

Stick at it my friend and you'll be fine.

9erssteve

[nbryant]

You gotta think about it this way Sam; You are 13 years old. I would have given my right arm to start doing graphics design at 13. Think about how good you will be at 27 (My age) if you continue to work on it and get better. Guys like Logoman and CDixon are two of the best so of course it's gonna look like crap compared to them. Most people's work looks like crap compared to them haha. So don't look at it as comparing one designer to another. Look at it as comparing some of your earlier work to now. As long as you are doing better now than you have in months past, you are already on the right track.

So with that said, just take the advice given to you and don't worry because unless you refuse to practice, you are gonna get much better.

That is one of the best posts I have ever read. Very encouraging, nice and helpful at the same time. If I could send you one of my freezer's ice cream sandwhiches as a reward, I would.

Ditto........ JJ in a world where most (not all) throw darts you reply was very sincere and noteworthy.

[Spammy]

Alright guys i have reshaped the whole eagle and I am not even close to being done. so I am hoping i can turn this into a topic where the whole process is shone, here is the logo now C+C Please

[Patchez]

Sorry if this was pointed out already, but to me, the beak length is disproportionate with the eagle's head.

[chickenfish13]

It's looking better. Now, take a look at guy's like AAO's concepts, and you will see really good examples of shading. Take that into account, and just look at some pics of eagles, and then shade it as you see fit. It's a hard thing to do, and it takes awhile to learn, but you will eventually get it, so keep going, it's looking better.

[Spammy]

Update 2:

There still is something i really don't like about it. C+C Please

[Spammy]

Anyone?

[CDixonDesign]

It's a step in a solid direction, but the White areas feel too much like holes, the shadowing is way too busy, try working with just black and gold to begin with, and coming back to add the white highlights once you're satisfied with the other colors...

[-(dp)-]

Okay, you got a little bit over detailed here. The first thing my eye notices is the white areas on the head. It doesn't look like anything specific, so I am almost reading it as negative space, causing me to try to make something out of the black areas. The white area, especially with the gold outline, just seems random. The bird's eye gets completely lost, which may be another reason the white is throwing me off. The eye should be a point of focus. When someone looks at the logo, they would be drawn to the eye, then everything else would be easier to make out from there. So, do something to make the eye stand out more, and I would say to get rid of some of the stuff inside the head (multiple outlines, etc.) Also, as many others have said, the beak shape and size is off. Keep working at it.

As far as tips on getting better, I can confirm that starting with pencil and paper, after doing some research is about the best thing you can do. My first logo, a lions one, was done just messing around in Illustrator. My second one, a Dragon logo was done on paper. There was a huge difference in the initial versions of each. When you start out in a vector program, you worry more about smooth lines than shape and proportion. You just don't get a feel for proportion or angles with a mouse and computer screen. Tracing paper is very good as 9erssteve mentioned, to keep making changes until you get it just right.

[OrangeBalloonCoast]

Alright guys i have reshaped the whole eagle and I am not even close to being done. so I am hoping i can turn this into a topic where the whole process is shone, here is the logo now C+C Please

I think this version has more potential than the others. I'm not sure if it's the exact shape of an eagle's head, but I'd like to see a stylized eye added to it.

[OpaqueChicken]

The colors seem mixed up.

Try swapping the colors around to see what looks best.

[9erssteve]

Update 2:

There still is something i really don't like about it. C+C Please

Okay, first off I think the silhouette is better than before, it could still do with some work but it's certainly progressing so that's good. The biggest issue I have with the highlights and shading, other than the white space producing what appears to be negative space (cut outs or holes through the shape) is that none of the shapes you've used, barring the tiny part round the beak, look like shapes you'd naturally expect to find on an Eagle, ie feathers.

The whole thing looks like a brass statuette rather than a real eagle. The shapes all appear smooth and solid, and almost like reflections rather than layers of feathers like you would expect on an bird. Once again I'm going to use the R word, research.

You need to work from a photo or series of good photos of eagles. Look at how the feathers lie, look to see if there are common markings such as dark patches under the eyes or at the side of the beak. Look at how the feathers in the neck sit so you can create a more natural shape at the base of your logo rather than the single smooth sweeping line.

Understand the relationship between the positions of the beak and the eye, what I mean is it's size and shape in comparison to the size of the beak, where is the eye positioned on the head. What shape is it actually? We all know eyeballs are round but do Eagles have brows that obscure the top of the eye and visually change it's shape or do the lids change the shape completely? What shape is the head?

Print the photo's out get yourself a trace pad and spend an hour or so tracing eagles become comfortable tracing (or drawing by eye if you feel confident enough) a realistic eagle first. Then start breaking down the photos into into large blocks of colour (the trace paper should make this easier as it will obscure some of the finer detail by it's very nature) then look to these tracings to see where to place similar shapes on your design to illustrate highlight and shading.

Only when you fully understand, and can explain either through description or visually through sketching what makes an eagle unique and different from say a falcon or a kite will you come up with a logo you are truly happy with. Doing it this way the first time might seem like a chore, but the sooner you get used to researching and sketching from photos and other reference materials the sooner it will become natural and when that starts to happen it will speed up and you'll develop your own style and achieve results similar to the other members on here you mentioned in your first post and admire.

Stick with it, this one is improving and you'll get there soon enough if you work at it mate.

9erssteve