Jaguars considering playing some games in Orlando

[STL FANATIC]

I'm sorry, STL, but while you make some good points I think you're allowing your own personal allegiance to color your analysis.

They have to be considered 3rd most likely at least (depending on how committed you think Wayne Weaver is to Jacksonville). But for those three, we're talking extremely minor degrees of separation.

And do you really think it likely that in the next few years St. Louis will be ready to build the Rams a new stadium?

It'd be impossible for it not to, so I won't try to hide it. But I'm trying to be objective.

I think it's hard to judge how likely the Rams are to move. The Rams Executive VP of Football Operations / COO came out strongly this week and said they would not be the team to move to LA. And while Chip Rosenbloom was as direct, he to exception to an article that stated the Rams seemed to be positioning themselves for a move and strongly stated his intentions to do right by the city of St. Louis.

And so that's the #1 thing. I don't think Chip will be the guy who ends up making the decision to stay or go, but I think he's going to do everything he can to put the Rams in the hands of an owner who will decide to stay when it's time to make that decision.

And if it's an owner like Checketts who is pre-committed to staying in town, then that's going to allow for more patience and time to work out an acceptable long-term plan for the stadium.

Will St. Louis be ready to build a new stadium in 5 years? I can't answer that. I can say that St. Louis is a sports town. And when the teams of St. Louis show goodwill towards the community, the community is more than happy to reciprocate. So as the economy begins to pick up, as the on-field performance picks up (fingers crossed), and if there is an owner who is attempting to work WITH the city to get something done, well then I wouldn't write anything off.

I'm not predicting that there will be a new stadium (or a massively renovated one) in the next 5-6 years. But I am predicting their will be a plan for one.

It really all comes down one factor, though, and that's who Chip sells to.

[IceCap]

I think you've generalized and overlooked a lot, Ice.

First off, I believe Alignment/Re-Alignment will be the LAST concern as far as which team ultimately makes the trek west to Los Angeles. To me that's much more an issue you deal with after the fact than one you allow to limit the options ahead of time.

Similarly, the only reason the Rams history would matter is if the current regime wanted to put them back there. They do not. They're not rushing to sell, and when they do, they're looking for a St. Louis buyer. There is the argument of the built-in fan base, but realistically the league expects LA to be able to support any team without qualifications.

So then it comes down to who could even go to LA first. Right now that's San Diego. I don't know what Jacksonville's lease is, but they have serious attendance problems that would make them an option to jump now. The Rams couldn't move until 2015 at the earliest anyways. LA may very well be filled by then.

Additionally, I'm not sure why it'd be said with any certainty that St. Louis won't replace/massively renovate the dome. It won't happen prior to 2015 almost for sure. But a lot can happen in 5 years. A winning team, good owner relations, and an improved economy are all possible by then, and if that's the case, I think a deal will be worked out to put the Rams in a better stadium.

The Rams are certainly an option to be moved, but they're far from the best or most likely. Third on that list MAYBE.

I tried to look at this through the NFL's ultra-OCD induced PoV. It just seems that for a league so self-conscience of itself that re-alignment nightmares may factor into their final decision of who goes where. I admit that it is looking way to deep at the situation, but IMO it's not completley out of the question that the NFL would seriously consider re-alignment problems when the issue of Who Goes to LA? finally does come up.

As for StL, well the problem is the arena. The Dome's consistently falling down the list of most up-to-date NFL stadiums. A new stadium would guarantee the team's survival in StL, regardless of whoever ends up owning the team. The problem is that the inverse is also true. When the sale's all said and done, the lack of a new stadium (or at least extensive renovations to the Dome) will prompt a move. 2015, and that's at the very earliest, is simply to far away in today's pro sports world.

Now there's always this scenario; The Rams move back to LA. The Jags stay in JAX, but move to StL in six/seven years time if the city is committed to a new stadium by then. Of course then they have change their name to the Stallions to right the wrongs of '92

Of course you are right, the Chargers are easily the first team on the list to move to LA. No question. And that's what makes this difficult. There won't be a second team in LA until well after the first one has been established. So if the Chargers go, the Jags and Rams are staying put. It's a race really, and the Chargers are in the number 1 position, though Goth's right, the degrees to which they're all separated are very minor. I think it really comes down to how quickly the Rams sell, and to who. I'm not familiar with the list of potential buyers and what their intentions are, but in the face of a new arena in LA and the lack of one in StL, plus NFL pressure, I can see it happening.

Though I have a feeling this is how it'll end up....

The Chargers to LA

The Rams sell to an owner willing to tough it out in StL....for now.

The Jags go to Orlando while the NFL scratches their heads and tries to figure out what to do with them in the long run (I'm of the opinion that Orlando and LV are terrible options for sports teams).

It just seems like the most predictable/likely/most anti-climatic situation out there.

There is always San Antonio, though.

I'm sorry, STL, but while you make some good points I think you're allowing your own personal allegiance to color your analysis.

They have to be considered 3rd most likely at least (depending on how committed you think Wayne Weaver is to Jacksonville). But for those three, we're talking extremely minor degrees of separation.

And do you really think it likely that in the next few years St. Louis will be ready to build the Rams a new stadium?

It'd be impossible for it not to, so I won't try to hide it. But I'm trying to be objective.

Now you know how I felt/feel

[Sguse1]

I think a viable option for the Jaguars would be to move to San Antonio. The Saints seemed to have a nice transition playing there and it would create a great rivalry with Houston. I see the Rams staying put and the Chargers leaving to LA.

[The_Admiral]

The Jaguars to LA? Eh, possible, but I imagine that it will result in a re-alignment nightmare. The only way to make it work would be to move KC to the AFC South, and there's no way the NFL's breaking up the Broncos-Chargers-Chiefs-Raiders rivalry.

That's not to say LA is out of the running though. It very much is, I just can't see the NFL letting the Jags be the ones to move out west. Sure you could say re-alignment wouldn't be needed, but I think a LA team in a division with Indianapolis, Tennessee, and Houston is a bit of a stretch, even by NFL standards (the Cowboys not withstanding).

A division of Los Angeles/Indianapolis/Nashville/Houston isn't ideal, but it's not impossible. There aren't extended road trips in the NFL the way there are in other sports. You practice at home, you get on a plane, you get drunk and cheat on your wife Saturday night, play the game Sunday afternoon, fly back home Sunday night, you're sleeping in your own bed again on Monday. So the fans back home might have to watch a Jaguars road game at 10 in the morning. Big deal. Of course the Los Angeles Rams would be ideal for realignment purposes, but if Jacksonville can't put more than 40,000 asses in seats, I don't think they're going to cancel a move because they'd stay in a division with the Colts.

[IceCap]

Very good points. I would, however, like to say that the 10 am thing may be a big deal. For a market as seemingly fragile it would seem like anything that might cut into the potential audience would be avoided. They could play all their road games against division rivals at 4pm EST, but it just seems a tad messy for the NFL.

[The_Admiral]

I'm sure at the very least, the Colts could swing a home game to 3:15 (or 4:15 or 14:72 or whatever the hell time it is in Indianapolis I don't even know anymore). Every Pacific coast team has to play a few early games every year. Such is life. You can mollycoddle Los Angeles to some limited extent in the first year by moving a few Eastern Time Zone games to the late slot or national night games, but it's a necessary problem.

[IceCap]

True, but there's also the Chargers/Rams problem. Both teams seemed poised to head to LA. The Rams could sell to someone who wants in on the LA deal and the Chargers can leave at the end of this season if they really wanted to. The Jags, from the sound of things, seem like they want to try this Orlando thing for a season or two to see if that helps with the revenue stream, and then if that doesn't work they move. Well given how close both the Chargers and Rams are to taking flight, that may be a tad to long.

And there won't be a second team in LA for a while after the first, so really if either team moves to the City of Angels the Jags aren't.

Which is why I brought up San Antonio. The Jags do indeed need to get out of JAX, and it's the next most viable market after LA, I think.

[BBTV]

I think a viable option for the Jaguars would be to move to San Antonio. The Saints seemed to have a nice transition playing there and it would create a great rivalry with Houston. I see the Rams staying put and the Chargers leaving to LA.

San Antonio is certainly not a viable option for a major-league sports team to relocate to. It's not really that big of a city (despite being in the top 10, it's also one of the more sparsely-populated cities, due to annexation and lack of a true urban center), certainly not part of a larger metropolis (barely in the top 30 metro areas, despite the "anchor city" being in top 10), not that a big media market, and the Alamo Dome is it's only really selling point, which just isn't going to cut it for the NFL.

[The_Admiral]

The Jaguars are failing because they are in a mid-to-small market very close to an incredibly popular college football program, not to mention that the other two NFL teams in the state have fans in the area. If the Jaguars move to San Antonio, they will be in a mid-to-small market very close to an incredibly popular college football program, not to mention that the other two NFL teams in the state have fans in the area.

[tBBP]

Here's another thing I haven't seen mentioned too much in this thread: many of the football fans in the J'ville area who aren't natives of the area are transplanted fans of other teams--in particular the Pittsburgh Steelers. In fact, there's a pretty sizeable contingent of 'Burgher transplants in that area--which might also explain why, for a period of time, the Jaguars were trying to build/mold themselves into the "Steelers South", of which signing several former Steelers might have only been the beginning (Troy Edwards, Carnell Lake, and Chris Fuamatu-Ma'afala immediately come to mind). Now, as much as I'd love for the Jags to stay in Jacksonville (as one of maybe three Jaguars fans in this community), I can see the proverbial writing on the wall.

So...maybe in hindsight, maybe it's a good thing they went and scrapped their previous lovely identity package for this watered-down incohesive garbage they have now...since that's kinda "lessened" my fandom a bit (?).

[DustDevil61]

So...maybe in hindsight, maybe it's a good thing they went and scrapped their previous lovely identity package for this watered-down incohesive garbage they have now...since that's kinda "lessened" my fandom a bit (?).

That's what I was thinking all along.

[Sguse1]

What are other American markets that could legitimately support an NFL franchise? Besides LA, which obviously could support a team on population alone, I really cant think of a city that could viably support a team.

Omaha?

Oklahoma City?

Portland?

Memphis?

Louisville?

[southpawstu19]

jaguars should move to orlando...it should have been orlando from the beginning

[DG_ThenNowForever]

I'm sure at the very least, the Colts could swing a home game to 3:15 (or 4:15 or 14:72 or whatever the hell time it is in Indianapolis I don't even know anymore). Every Pacific coast team has to play a few early games every year. Such is life. You can mollycoddle Los Angeles to some limited extent in the first year by moving a few Eastern Time Zone games to the late slot or national night games, but it's a necessary problem.

You know what one of the best things about living on the west coast is? 10 a.m. kick-offs.

[Sodboy13]

You know what one of the best things about living on the west coast is? 10 a.m. kick-offs.

Any excuse to start a Sunday with a Bloody Mary is a good excuse in my book. Also, beats the hell out of church.

[The_Admiral]

Here's another thing I haven't seen mentioned too much in this thread: many of the football fans in the J'ville area who aren't natives of the area are transplanted fans of other teams--in particular the Pittsburgh Steelers. In fact, there's a pretty sizeable contingent of 'Burgher transplants in that area--which might also explain why, for a period of time, the Jaguars were trying to build/mold themselves into the "Steelers South", of which signing several former Steelers might have only been the beginning (Troy Edwards, Carnell Lake, and Chris Fuamatu-Ma'afala immediately come to mind). Now, as much as I'd love for the Jags to stay in Jacksonville (as one of maybe three Jaguars fans in this community), I can see the proverbial writing on the wall.

So...maybe in hindsight, maybe it's a good thing they went and scrapped their previous lovely identity package for this watered-down incohesive garbage they have now...since that's kinda "lessened" my fandom a bit (?).

I know the rule is that you have to keep a uniform redesign for five years, but maybe a relocation would allow them to waive that rule and go back to what they were wearing before (plus the super-cool teal flake helmet). Give them a mulligan on this whole...thing.

Omaha?

Oklahoma City?

Portland?

Memphis?

Louisville?

no, no, probably not, no, no. seriously dude omaha use your head

[Saintsfan]

What are other American markets that could legitimately support an NFL franchise? Besides LA, which obviously could support a team on population alone, I really cant think of a city that could viably support a team.

Omaha?

Oklahoma City?

Portland?

Memphis?

Louisville?

I think that as far as US cities are concerned, the NFL's line of though is get an LA franchise (I am beginning to think Jacksonville Jaguars is the NFLs preference) and they are pretty much set in the US. I think its possible Toronto is being thought about, I think maybe London is being somewhat considered, possibly a few other places like Mexico City, but its tough to imagine many other places being able to pull in 60,000 regularly, especially with the NFL's locations set up as they are right now.

[DEAD!]

You know what one of the best things about living on the west coast is? 10 a.m. kick-offs.

Any excuse to start a Sunday with a Bloody Mary is a good excuse in my book. Also, beats the hell out of church.

Wait, there's hell in church?

[RyanB06]

jaguars should move to orlando...it should have been orlando from the beginning

Not if Tampa Bay has anything to say about it. Orlando is just within Tampa's territorial area.

[Gothamite]

You know what one of the best things about living on the west coast is? 10 a.m. kick-offs.

Any excuse to start a Sunday with a Bloody Mary is a good excuse in my book. Also, beats the hell out of church.

You'd love New York. Brunch is our church.