Jaguars considering playing some games in Orlando

[DustDevil61]

Call me crazy for even bringing this up, and yes I know the odds of this happening are incredibly low, but has there been even the smallest of rumors that Mr. Checketts is considering moving the Rams to Utah with it?s rich college football following? I know Utah isn?t looked at as NFL country to anyone, but Salt Lake City actually ranks higher in market size than Kansas City! So if you were to place a new stadium in between Salt Lake and Provo, there?s no doubt you could get the turn out for games, even on Sunday?s!

FWIW, there have been Deseret News and SL Trib article comments concerning moving the Rams to Salt Lake if Checketts buys the team, and I believe that one writer brought up the possibility of the NFL in Salt Lake. However, I think most of these are tongue-in-cheek, though Checketts thinks that there could be an NFL team in Salt Lake within 10 years.

Maybe a Utah-based NFL team could work something out to schedule as few Sunday home games as possible (not unlike the Jazz); if I'm not mistaken, a few years ago, there were 2-3 Monday night games. I'm not holding my breath, though; there's a much greater chance of the Rams returning to Los Angeles than bringing the Rams to Utah, should they leave St. Louis at all.

However, Salt Lake is a frontrunner for the UFL, so pro football could be served here. It may possibly become a springboard to the NFL.

As for the Bills/Jaguars, Sen. Charles Schumer has this to say about the Bills moving to Los Angeles.

[Wasatch]

Call me crazy for even bringing this up, and yes I know the odds of this happening are incredibly low, but has there been even the smallest of rumors that Mr. Checketts is considering moving the Rams to Utah with it?s rich college football following? I know Utah isn?t looked at as NFL country to anyone, but Salt Lake City actually ranks higher in market size than Kansas City! So if you were to place a new stadium in between Salt Lake and Provo, there?s no doubt you could get the turn out for games, even on Sunday?s!

FWIW, there have been Deseret News and SL Trib article comments concerning moving the Rams to Salt Lake if Checketts buys the team, and I believe that one writer brought up the possibility of the NFL in Salt Lake. However, I think most of these are tongue-in-cheek, though Checketts thinks that there could be an NFL team in Salt Lake within 10 years.

Maybe a Utah-based NFL team could work something out to schedule as few Sunday home games as possible (not unlike the Jazz); if I'm not mistaken, a few years ago, there were 2-3 Monday night games. I'm not holding my breath, though; there's a much greater chance of the Rams returning to Los Angeles than bringing the Rams to Utah, should they leave St. Louis at all.

However, Salt Lake is a frontrunner for the UFL, so pro football could be served here. It may possibly become a springboard to the NFL.

As for the Bills/Jaguars, Sen. Charles Schumer has this to say about the Bills moving to Los Angeles.

As far as Salt Lake getting an NFL franchise, I don?t think the idea is as far fetched as it sounds. And as for the Bills, I?m glad to read that Ralph Wilson has no plans what-so-ever about moving the Bills as we speak. Seriously, just move the Jags to L.A. and all is solved!

[Wasatch]

I wonder what would have to happen in order for Salt Lake to become a contending bidder for a relocation or expansion team (relocating being the more likely)?..

[The_Admiral]

Call me crazy for even bringing this up, and yes I know the odds of this happening are incredibly low, but has there been even the smallest of rumors that Mr. Checketts is considering moving the Rams to Utah with it's rich college football following? I know Utah isn't looked at as NFL country to anyone, but Salt Lake City actually ranks higher in market size than Kansas City! So if you were to place a new stadium in between Salt Lake and Provo, there's no doubt you could get the turn out for games, even on Sunday's!

The rich college football following is precisely why the NFL won't trespass on the Wasatch Front. It's established BYU/Utes territory; the Rams would be a distant third. Furthermore, Checketts has established himself as a St. Louis philantropist of sorts, as Fanatic detailed, and would not squander his standing in the community by moving the Rams (despite being a distant third themselves in St. Louis) out. That's a bad move.

Oh and yeah if Mormons aren't gonna go to games on Sundays, forget it.

[Wasatch]

The rich college football following is precisely why the NFL won't trespass on the Wasatch Front. It's established BYU/Utes territory; the Rams would be a distant third.

Why can?t they co-exist though?

Oh and yeah if Mormons aren't gonna go to games on Sundays, forget it.

Plenty would go, trust me!

[rams80]

I haven't heard anything like that to this point. It's certainly not his public stance (which I realize means little in this business) in trying to win the bid.

I wouldn't be against a SLC team sometime, though. I just hope it's not my Rams.

Yeah, I think Clay Bennett has changed how fans look at potential out-of-state buyers from here on out!

Clay Bennett is merely the latest in a not-exactly-short line of such buyers.

[STL FANATIC]

Call me crazy for even bringing this up, and yes I know the odds of this happening are incredibly low, but has there been even the smallest of rumors that Mr. Checketts is considering moving the Rams to Utah with it's rich college football following? I know Utah isn't looked at as NFL country to anyone, but Salt Lake City actually ranks higher in market size than Kansas City! So if you were to place a new stadium in between Salt Lake and Provo, there's no doubt you could get the turn out for games, even on Sunday's!

...(despite being a distant third themselves in St. Louis)...

It depends on how you judge it, but I'd feel pretty strongly saying the Rams are #2 behind the Cardinals.

Probably more passion in the Blues fanbase, but even in a down year, the Rams have more interest, get more headlines, etc. Generally speaking, that's what the NFL does.

[The_Admiral]

The rich college football following is precisely why the NFL won't trespass on the Wasatch Front. It's established BYU/Utes territory; the Rams would be a distant third.

Why can't they co-exist though?

Doesn't really work that way. Very hard for a metro area with established college ball to fit an NFL team in, it would appear.

Where are you getting that greater Salt Lake City is bigger than greater Kansas City? I'm seeing about 2 million for KC and 1.7MM for SLC.

[Gothamite]

As for the Bills/Jaguars, Sen. Charles Schumer has this to say about the Bills moving to Los Angeles.

"U.S. Sen. Charles Schumer has been reassured by Bills owner Ralph Wilson that he has no intention of entertaining offers to relocate the team to Los Angeles."

Nothing new there. I believe that's the case. Ralph Wilson is no Bud Adams - I don't think he has any desire whatsoever to leave western New York so long as he has two pennies to rub together for payroll.

Now, when he dies, that's another story altogether. And that's where the possibility of relocating the Bills comes in.

[Gothamite]

Where are you getting that greater Salt Lake City is bigger than greater Kansas City? I'm seeing about 2 million for KC and 1.7MM for SLC.

That sure seems to be the case.

The Salt Lake City MSA is the 49th largest in the country, with 1,115,692 people in 2008. Kansas City is 29th, with 2,002,047 residents. That's a huge difference.

And FWIW, the Jacksonville MSA is itself higher than Salt Lake City's, ranking #40 with 1,313,228 people.

Jacksonville is widely seen as being a mistake, a market too small to support pro ball. The notion that the NFL would trade it for an even smaller market seems absurd on its face. More so when you factor in those two open slots in the #2 market just waiting for teams.

[BBTV]

Where are you getting that greater Salt Lake City is bigger than greater Kansas City? I'm seeing about 2 million for KC and 1.7MM for SLC.

That sure seems to be the case.

The Salt Lake City MSA is the 49th largest in the country, with 1,115,692 people in 2008. Kansas City is 29th, with 2,002,047 residents. That's a huge difference.

And FWIW, the Jacksonville MSA is itself higher than Salt Lake City's, ranking #40 with 1,313,228 people.

Jacksonville is widely seen as being a mistake, a market too small to support pro ball. The notion that the NFL would trade it for an even smaller market seems absurd on its face. More so when you factor in those two open slots in the #2 market just waiting for teams.

Not only is it a smaller market, it's a ... "different" market.

Nothing against the fine people of Utah, but there's no way a top-tier team (NFL, MLB) would ever relocate or expand there. NBA and NHL is a little bit different, and more localized, but the local revenue streams needed to support a NFL or MLB team just don't exist there, and from a national marketing perspective, it would be a disaster (worse than Jacksonville, which by all accounts has been a big mistake.)

[Gothamite]

Agreed - I don't have any corporate support information to hand, but I'd find it hard to believe that Salt Lake City would fight so far above its weight in that department.

The NBA is a different organization, with different needs from its markets. It likes smaller markets that it can "own" - no other major league would trade Oklahoma City for Seattle.

[Wasatch]

The rich college football following is precisely why the NFL won't trespass on the Wasatch Front. It's established BYU/Utes territory; the Rams would be a distant third.

Why can't they co-exist though?

Doesn't really work that way. Very hard for a metro area with established college ball to fit an NFL team in, it would appear.

Where are you getting that greater Salt Lake City is bigger than greater Kansas City? I'm seeing about 2 million for KC and 1.7MM for SLC.

Wow! You?re probably all right. I can remember seeing a list a few years ago but perhaps I mistook it for something else. I guess I?m giving my hometown of SLC to much credit, I had no idea we were as far down as #49. My bad, I apologize!

[Wasatch]

Is there a place online that lists the television market sizes by rank?

[infrared41]

Is there a place online that lists the television market sizes by rank?

Try this.

Salt Lake City is listed at #31.

[Wasatch]

Is there a place online that lists the television market sizes by rank?

Try this.

Salt Lake City is listed at #31.

Yes, that?s exactly the list I saw! See, just one spot ahead of Kansas City, but I guess we?re not really going off of the U.S. TV Household Estimates Designated Market Area are we?

[The_Admiral]

I go by Combined Statistical Areas whenever possible.

[BBTV]

Is there a place online that lists the television market sizes by rank?

Try this.

Salt Lake City is listed at #31.

Yes, that's exactly the list I saw! See, just one spot ahead of Kansas City, but I guess we're not really going off of the U.S. TV Household Estimates Designated Market Area are we?

I go by Combined Statistical Areas whenever possible.

Here's how Nielsen ranks the media markets. Not sure how this ranking was compiled though - if it's based on population, number of TV sets, households, etc.

http://www.tvjobs.com/cgi-bin/markets/market2.cgi

Combined can be somewhat misleading, as some metro areas are merged. Are DC and Baltimore really the same area? That's a serious question - I'm not sure. From my experiences there, I'd say not, since they each have their own media outlets, and aren't really viewed by locals as neighbors.

Here's the US CSA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Combined_Statistical_Areas

Maybe Metropolitan Statistical Area would be a better indicator of a region's true market size?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_metropolitan_areas

[infrared41]

Is there a place online that lists the television market sizes by rank?

Try this.

Salt Lake City is listed at #31.

Yes, that’s exactly the list I saw! See, just one spot ahead of Kansas City, but I guess we’re not really going off of the U.S. TV Household Estimates Designated Market Area are we?

What's the population within say 75 square miles of Salt Lake City? That's the difference between KC and Salt Lake City for sports purposes. KC is probably surrounded by a bunch of little towns that add up to a whole lot of people. The population of the entire state of Utah probably isn't as high as the population of KC and the surrounding area.

I'm not familiar with KC so I'll use Cleveland as an example of what I'm talking about here. And I'm better with radio numbers so I am using Arbitron figures. Cleveland is 29th in Arbitron market rankings. Salt Lake City is 30th. The DMA (designated market area) for Cleveland is about 1.8 million. Salt Lake City is roughly the same. In actual numbers the difference is about 27,000.

While Cleveland's DMA is good for about 1.8 million people, Cleveland's TSA (total surveyed area) has considerably more than 1.8 million people. Since all of Utah is only good for 2.7 million I'd have to think that the size of their TSA isn't significantly larger than they're DMA. Then you have to consider the population outside the "market." There are towns of 15-20 thousand people all over the place within 75 miles of Cleveland. (The county I live in is not considered part of the DMA yet we have 60,000 people and we're considered "the boonies.")

While those towns are outside the TV and radio "markets" they are still getting Cleveland TV and they are dead center on the NFL's target. The TV coverage area for Cleveland alone is at least the population of the entire state of Utah. And there are three other good sized markets within 120 miles of Cleveland. Canton-Akron, Toledo, and a top 20 with Columbus.

For NFL purposes, Cleveland's TSA alone dwarfs the entire state of Utah. Add in Toledo, parts of Columbus, Canton-Akron, and all the "small cities" of 15-20 thousand and you get a good idea of why Cleveland, which is 29th to Salt Lake City's 30th in the arbitron rankings, is a much better market for NFL Football than is Salt Lake City.

I would imagine the same thing is true when comparing Salt Lake City to Kansas City. And we haven't even addressed College Football and other issues in the Salt Lake City market.

Hope that helps.

[DustDevil61]

I am led to believe that the DMA market for Salt Lake includes all of the state of Utah. So, that would pull in the entire Wasatch Front and any other town in the state, wether it be Logan, St. George, Cedar City, Moab, Price, Vernal, Kanab, Blanding, Panguitch, Castle Dale, Orderville, Escalante, Bluff, or Ticaboo.

Not to mention that this could also include northern Arizona, southwest Wyoming, southeastern Idaho, and eastern Nevada. That would mean that Preston, ID, Ely, NV, Page, AZ, and Evanston, WY could very likely be included in that DMA.

Then again, the DMA rankings put Jacksonville at 47. While most the attendees would come from Salt Lake, while those away from the Wasatch Front would generally watch on TV, similar to Jazz home games.

That said,I'd love to see a preseason NFL game played in Salt Lake or Provo, or have some kind of offseason camp held in the state. I've even emailed the Cardinals a year or so ago about holding a camp in St. George (to spread their fanbase north into southern Utah). Naturally, I still haven't gotten any returned feedback.

Well, Checketts did say Utah could be ready for the NFL in 10 years (that would mean about 2019 or 2020), so Utah will still primarily be Broncos/49ers/Raiders territory for at least that time.

Well, we do have the UFL looking at SLC, FWIW, so we should at least have some pro football.