Buck Tradition! ... Chicago Blackhawks Concept - Alternative Jersey

[Patchez]

Patchez, you really should think about listening to C&C and trying to make improvements. People like elliot and bohob have put time and effort into giving you some fantastic critiques on your design, and you give no effort making updates. They present you great ways to improve your design and you just brush it off, because you think your idea is perfect. You even said it yourself that the jerseys are ugly, so why don't you try to make them better. In my opinion it is very rude to ask for C&C, and not listen to it at all. With that being said, I like the idea of this one, but the execution is way off, and I agree 100% with what elliot and bohob have said. Maybe, seeing as many people have the same view about this concept, it could be right***. Take a stab at an update, please.

I appreciate and value the C+C provided as always. Why the hell would I post it here? Come on, tell me since you know so much about me as stated above.

I am considering some suggestions posted on the "concept" alternate jersey.

But did I miss the "rules" that require a timely "effort" to incorporate design suggestions and post on that mandatory schedule?

I apologize if I did!

Yes, I do believe I have a fundamental difference of "design intent" on this project than the majority here.

Does that require I follow in "lock step" in order to make friends here?

Not me!

As you suggested, on this design, and this thread, I am wrong and the majority is right and wins?

Think that over a bit.

Am I poisoning the design eye and abilities of the viewers of this design?

If so, again I apologize.

Should I take the opinion of you, one who assumes much about someone he does not know at all. Then calls me out as being rude for asking for C+C and not listening to it?

Hell no!

I really don't think you are rude for your opinion on how I respond (or not) to the C+C nor do I "assume" that most critiques of my posts are attempts at being rude (or wrong)!

If design intent and target marketing are not factors in designs posted on CCSLC, then that's OK by me and I apologize once again.

I clearly noted on the thread title and my first post that my intention was to go the opposite of the current, traditional Hawks look for an "alternate" sweater.

I would hope to win suggestions on how to gain that goal. What I do with those suggestions is not something you can tell me what to do with and when. Agreed?

If you are still reading, I came up with the feathers idea a long time ago. Originally the overall color scheme was more "traditional" for the Hawks. Both shoulder feathers were the same.

While I totally agree, that the legibility is lacking with the green on red, watching my Bears beat the Seahawks recently, I noticed their ugly lime green jerseys left me having trouble with the contrast with the white numbers. (And no one died!!!!) But then I noticed some fans wearing those same ugly jerseys.

Sometimes ugly slips out now and again! (a million Chinese can't all be wrong wearing Houston Rockets stuff!)

***Many people believe our country would elect a non-US born person as President! Many people think that MickeyD's has good burgers! Many people like Jay Leno?

Many people take a lime with their Corona's, not realizing it all started as a way to simply "clean" their beer glass rim!

So?

[elliott]

Patchez, you really should think about listening to C&C and trying to make improvements. People like elliot and bohob have put time and effort into giving you some fantastic critiques on your design, and you give no effort making updates. They present you great ways to improve your design and you just brush it off, because you think your idea is perfect. You even said it yourself that the jerseys are ugly, so why don't you try to make them better. In my opinion it is very rude to ask for C&C, and not listen to it at all. With that being said, I like the idea of this one, but the execution is way off, and I agree 100% with what elliot and bohob have said. Maybe, seeing as many people have the same view about this concept, it could be right. Take a stab at an update, please.

Ok, this post might be a little harsh, but I have to agree with this, to an extent. Patchez, I think you have some good ideas, but one thing I have noticed in a few of your concept threads is the unwillingness to change them. That is a skill that has to be developed , but people on here are giving their opinions on how the design can be upgraded, and sometimes you have to listen. Chuckdownfields' post is a little exaggerated but he does make some acute observations. But, c'mon now, you admitted it yourself, it's ugly. Now, why would you WANT a concept to be ugly? Sure, it's creative, and you can take your stand of creativity over functionality all you want, but make some compromises. I sorta learned this the hard way, a while back I was doing MLB bp jerseys and they all were a little crazy, but I realized, with the help of gingerbreadmann, that some of the designs were too ridiculous and I had to consider what would actually work for a team, as well as what is creative. I proceeded to rethink the series. But, reading your post above, it seems like you are a little stuck in your ways. Look on the other viewpoint, and try to make some changes. You have your opinion and I have mine, but compromises are essential when updating concepts, I have found. Keep your vision, but give credence to the people that try to help. This design needs a lot of work, and you should, no matter how opposed you are, strongly consider making revisions because it has a lot of potential. And don't argue with legit c+c. That's absolutely crucial to bettering yourself. (but go ahead and argue with spammers and absolute idiots, no complaints on that).

[The_Admiral]

Patchez's ability to render images is fantastic, miles ahead of what many here (including myself) can do. He's talented and creative. And yet I read his posts and it's like my brain is being tickled with a fork. My posts don't make any goddamn sense either, but a lot of that is a calculated effort to craft a posting persona based around snark, meta-references, and deconstruction of typical posting etiquette, like quoting and replying to my own posts, or eschewing those stupid emoticons that lobotomize anything that resembles sarcasm and irony (unless I use them ironically). Patchez posts just sort of exist on another planet. I guess he's a Photoshop savant or something.

[Patchez]

Patchez, you really should think about listening to C&C and trying to make improvements. People like elliot and bohob have put time and effort into giving you some fantastic critiques on your design, and you give no effort making updates. They present you great ways to improve your design and you just brush it off, because you think your idea is perfect. You even said it yourself that the jerseys are ugly, so why don't you try to make them better. In my opinion it is very rude to ask for C&C, and not listen to it at all. With that being said, I like the idea of this one, but the execution is way off, and I agree 100% with what elliot and bohob have said. Maybe, seeing as many people have the same view about this concept, it could be right. Take a stab at an update, please.

Ok, this post might be a little harsh, but I have to agree with this, to an extent. Patchez, I think you have some good ideas, but one thing I have noticed in a few of your concept threads is the unwillingness to change them. That is a skill that has to be developed , but people on here are giving their opinions on how the design can be upgraded, and sometimes you have to listen. Chuckdownfields' post is a little exaggerated but he does make some acute observations. But, c'mon now, you admitted it yourself, it's ugly. Now, why would you WANT a concept to be ugly? Sure, it's creative, and you can take your stand of creativity over functionality all you want, but make some compromises. I sorta learned this the hard way, a while back I was doing MLB bp jerseys and they all were a little crazy, but I realized, with the help of gingerbreadmann, that some of the designs were too ridiculous and I had to consider what would actually work for a team, as well as what is creative. I proceeded to rethink the series. But, reading your post above, it seems like you are a little stuck in your ways. Look on the other viewpoint, and try to make some changes. You have your opinion and I have mine, but compromises are essential when updating concepts, I have found. Keep your vision, but give credence to the people that try to help. This design needs a lot of work, and you should, no matter how opposed you are, strongly consider making revisions because it has a lot of potential. And don't argue with legit c+c. That's absolutely crucial to bettering yourself. (but go ahead and argue with spammers and absolute idiots, no complaints on that).

Elliott, did you not fully read and comprehend my recent post? Or do you simply NOT believe me what I typed the following:

"I appreciate and value the C+C provided as always... I am considering some suggestions posted on this "concept" alternate jersey." I typed that twice now!

Again, in violation of the unwritten bylaws of the CCSLC community, I simply would like to get some more input before harvesting good suggestions (IMO) from any and all.

Again... no knock against the feedback so far... except that I am not looking to return to safe, traditional conventions when it comes to an alternative look.

What is interesting is how much feedback on how am not playing the game the way some of you are used to here. I played baseball and other sports many years, those games had rules that can be researched and verified in order to participate fairly. Not so here in the Concepts section. "Do as we do, when we do, or we won't play with you no more" "If you are not like us, you are wrong" (Twins tied it in the 10th, yeah!)

Elliott, you offered a nice story on your progression on design efforts posted here. That's cool! You stated "compromises are essential when updating concepts"... very true, but I have not updated this concept yet. (Wow, winning run thrown out @ home!)

But as a designer, many times compromises are made for the benefit of the purchaser of the design work. Sometimes the designer is not happy with the result, but those compromises sold it! Sometimes those results are considered ugly to the designer. Shlt happens!

If a designer starts out "ugly" in an environment where collaborative suggestions can be made and considered (with the stated design intent in mind), why do so many of you talented people feel the need to jump down my throat about my handling my concept in my preferred way?

[Patchez]

Patchez's ability to render images is fantastic, miles ahead of what many here (including myself) can do. He's talented and creative. And yet I read his posts and it's like my brain is being tickled with a fork. My posts don't make any goddamn sense either, but a lot of that is a calculated effort to craft a posting persona based around snark, meta-references, and deconstruction of typical posting etiquette, like quoting and replying to my own posts, or eschewing those stupid emoticons that lobotomize anything that resembles sarcasm and irony (unless I use them ironically). Patchez posts just sort of exist on another planet. I guess he's a Photoshop savant or something.

This reply was going soooooooooooooooooooo good up to, and including the word "fork"

...Then the Wizard pulls back his own curtain!

Pay no attention to that little man behind the curtain!!!

[elliott]

Elliott, did you not fully read and comprehend my recent post? Or do you simply NOT believe me what I typed the following:

"I appreciate and value the C+C provided as always... I am considering some suggestions posted on this "concept" alternate jersey." I typed that twice now!

No, I read it. Honestly I ramble constantly and I might have gotten off track but to really put it one way: Don't consistently contradict commenters, which you do. You type that you "appreciate c+c" as many times as you want but you gotta back it up with your posts. I have just got the impression that you do not want to change what you have, and for that reason you are refuting posters. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't konw. It just seems to me that your "preferred way" of handling concepts is a little irrational.

(Twins tied it in the 10th, yeah!)

(Wow, winning run thrown out @ home!)

Haha.

If a designer starts out "ugly" in an environment where collaborative suggestions can be made and considered (with the stated design intent in mind), why do so many of you talented people feel the need to jump down my throat about my handling my concept in my preferred way?

Now I think that's overreacting. No one is jumping down your throat. We are trying to help, and I think you are not handling constructive criticism as well as you could. It does take time because it's hard to hear someone say "This sucks, And here is why" straight to your face (im exaggerating here a little but you get the point). I had an awful time with that myself at first, but now I'm perfectly with comfortable with someone ripping one of my concepts to shreds, I might not agree, but all in all, I know that it is probably helping out the design. As strange as that sounds, people being harsh or your concepts does help, and I think you are interpreting that as people jumping on a newer guy, but that's not the way I see it.

[ChuckDownfield]

Look, we're only trying to help you. Stop being so defensive and learn to COMPROMISE. It's very simple, if you don't want our help to improve your design, don't bother asking for C&C.

[Patchez]

Look, we're only trying to help you. Stop being so defensive and learn to COMPROMISE. It's very simple, if you don't want our help to improve your design, don't bother asking for C&C.

ChuckDownfield,

Great name by the way!

Compromise is inappropriate in these scenarios. I don't HAVE to COMPROMISE with you and any one else!

I would think the better term to use here is "open to suggestions"

At the point of your original misguided post, I did NOT reject any suggestions, I simply in plain English stated to

one of the posters, my intent was to create an "alternative" design for an "alternate" sweater.

Targeted towards those who purchase sportswear for other reasons that supporting the Blackhawks.

If the Hawks DID create this jersey, you know damn well Hawk hockey fans will buy some.

It's the rest of the targeted market that brings in the big bucks on licensed sportswear.

For quite awhile, the current Chicago White Sox cap was a HUGE seller. Was that due to a swell of White Sox fans worldwide or did Sox fans like me buy one for every day of the week?

Did the White Sox become more popular than the Yankees, the Dodgers, even the Cubs? NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

And one more thing about ugly. I go to a lot of pro sporting events. I have seen A LOT of ugly sportswear out there, both licensed and not.

These were on folks who PURCHASED them. Just look at what Wal Mart offers!

You are rude for saying I am defensive. You are rude for thinking I must compromise. You are rude for implying that "we are only trying to help you", when all you

did is say the others were right and you are rude from thinking I'm rude.

Elvis loves you!

[Buster]

Here is my concept for an alternate sweater for the Chicago Blackhawks.

I tire of the traditional set and the boring current alt. Time to use some of the colors in their great logo.

C+C welcomed.

Original design:

Inspiration?

[Patchez]

Here is my concept for an alternate sweater for the Chicago Blackhawks.

I tire of the traditional set and the boring current alt. Time to use some of the colors in their great logo.

C+C welcomed.

Inspiration?

Why not, if it sells to that demographic, right?

Licensed (and non-licensed) sportswear have been extremely popular in young urban population for quite awhile now.

I used to do a double-take when I saw a black guy wearing a hockey jersey on the street. I believe it started with the old

Starter jackets a while back. When popular recording artists wear the fashion, it builds upon it self a large market for sportswear.

Heck, I'm sure down in the lilly white bible belt of our country, there are white kids dressin' like their fav hip hop star and

the good 'ole boys down at the truck stop and boutique are none the wiser their kids are mimicking those tanned yankees up here!

So alternative design does not need to be locked into some formula. Some of you folks here need to lighten up (no pun intended) a bit.

Or go out and burn those New Era red Yankee caps, or the leather Dodger caps, or the denim Astro caps, or the pink Cub caps.

On second thought, pink is fitting for the Cubs based on their neighborhood!

[bohob]

It seems to me that this whole episode is directly related to your incorrect use of the English language. You said (typed) multiple times that this was an alternate jersey. So, the CCSLC has critiqued it based on what an alternate jersey actually is: a jersey other than the primary home and away jerseys that is worn during a game. What you have presented to us is in no way qualified to be an alternate jersey. It is a fashion jersey. Now, although I can't say for sure, I believe if you had stated that this was a fashion jersey, you probably wouldn't have had to argue tooth-and-nail about how we weren't getting your idea and such. Would people have said it was ugly? Sure, but even you said it was ugly. So, in the future, please be more careful with your choice of words, it will save you, and all of us, a lot of arguing over semantics.

[Patchez]

[b]It seems to me that this whole episode is directly related to your incorrect use of the English language. You said (typed) multiple times that this was an alternate jersey. So, the CCSLC has critiqued it based on what an alternate jersey actually is: a jersey other than the primary home and away jerseys that is worn during a game. What you have presented to us is in no way qualified to be an alternate jersey. It is a fashion jersey. Now, although I can't say for sure, I believe if you had stated that this was a fashion jersey, you probably wouldn't have had to argue tooth-and-nail about how we weren't getting your idea and such. Would people have said it was ugly? Sure, but even you said it was ugly. So, in the future, please be more careful with your choice of words, it will save you, and all of us, a lot of arguing over semantics.

Since bohob does not read my mind like others here, I will confirm that my intent was to come up with an alternative, alternate Blackhawks jersey, which the NHL team would wear on occasion(s) on the ice during actual NHL games. If it was to be used, two main demographics may purchase one, a Hawks fan and someone wanting one for wearing. Simply.

If game jerseys are not intended to ALSO sell as a "fashion" jersey, I apologize once again to those so sensitive, or sworn to the oath of the sportswear doctrine, etched in the sandy beach on the shores of Lake Titicaca.

This WHOLE episode is NOT my doing. Reread all the posts in order if you want.

I asked to C+C

I restated to elliott's post my goal.

A young man called me out for not taking up the previous suggestions and called me rude.

(Maybe he should have requested at least a response from me first?)

Most critiques are well thought out and professional and doable. But the design world does not revolve around only one of us. Including you.

I have been lurking here a long time. I often see newbies shot down pretty harshly and bitchy.

Personally, I really give two :censored:s what others say, as long as they notice and speak up, so I am not running away!)

I posted this design to see what reaction I'd get based on my previous observations in Concepts.

I was gonna do this with the Washington Monument's logo, but I got busy and later thought, hey I like what I have and let it die that way.

Opinions are like asshces, we all have them. Some stink, others not so much. But in order to encourage a newbie, we need to be more constructive in our critique and less "why do people feel they need to...", etc. Let's encourage newbies so they can learn to wipe their as@es better and reduce the stink.

bohob, you didn't come off that way, nor did elliott, but you guys don't have to defend the other posters. In fact, do what I do, ignore them. This board has established a group mind set on many things. That is not always bad, but it has a lot of negative, non-productive, non-nurturing qualities that may scare off a hobbyist like me to participate. Again, I got thicker skin (and waist) than you may think, I am not leaving! And I am not afraid of a fight, verbally or otherwise!

A real cop out is to say "I agree with..." But I would never say you CAN'T say ANYTHING within the boundaries set by the owner of this board.

Sooooo, I posted an update, but this dialog seems more important I guess?

[JQK]

It's bad, and you should feel bad...

[ChuckDownfield]

You say I have been rude? Look at they way you shot down suggestions given by other members. Look at the overreaction you have when someone tells you they think your being rude. Your whole argument has been full of conflicting views and hypocrisy. I think you should step back and look at the situation from a different, third party, perspective. This way you will be able to see how ridiculous you are acting.

[logocruncher]

I'm going to sort of sidestep this whole argument and get to the C&C. The new jersey is much better than the original. Less colors, cleaner overall look, and consistent striping. That said, I'm still having problems with a couple of things. First of all, the CHICAGO wordmark feels sort of crammed in behind the Blackhawk head, and the font isn't all that exciting. I'd arch it over the top or something. Also, I really don't like the black sleeves. I guess that, since you kept it in both renditions, you're committed to it, but I think they detract from the shoulder motif and look a little... slapped on. I'd continue the waist striping onto the elbows, and get some white into the striping. I hope this is the type of C&C you're looking for, just so we can kind of...steer this thread back to the concept. No offense, but you were given critical, honest C&C, and reading through your posts it seems like you overreacted. Anyways, I like the update, and hope you'll keep on working on this.

[Patchez]

I'm going to sort of sidestep this whole argument and get to the C&C... No offense, but you were given critical, honest C&C, and reading through your posts it seems like you overreacted. Anyways, I like the update, and hope you'll keep on working on this.

Thanks for the input.

The font is taken from the Hawks web site. I prefer some more letter spacing but went with what they had. For my taste, I too feel the black sleeves are a little heavy, but that stays. I don't concern myself with the "cramped" feel between the Chicago and the logo, again not a rule I follow too often. (Am I overreacting yet?)

I would prefer an arched lettering too as it fits better with the logo and I am considering that. What would relieve the cramping (for some!)

I like the idea of mimicking the hem piping to the sleeves as well. Thinking about it, but that would be a bit more traditional than my original design intent.

In this presentation and design intent, I would not want to add white to the stripes. I am not saying that is a bad suggestion.

logocruncher, did you read the posts sequentially? Yes I overreacted to the rude kid, but that was just to show him he was a jerk, when he overreacted to my not either doing the suggestions offered, or simply not responding at all. Even another poster said he was "harsh". Being in America, he has every right to be... as do I.

Reading is fundamental people!!!!

[Patchez]

You say I have been rude? Look at they way you shot down suggestions given by other members. Look at the overreaction you have when someone tells you they think your being rude. Your whole argument has been full of conflicting views and hypocrisy. I think you should step back and look at the situation from a different, third party, perspective. This way you will be able to see how ridiculous you are acting.

Ok junior, please read the posts sequentially. How many suggestions did I shoot down brainiac?

Unless in your little world, NOT responding to a suggestion equals shooting it down, then YOU have the English language problem here.

"Step back and look... third party" WTF?

Look at the reason some Einstein said I was rude to begin with! (Oh, never mind... you'd have to step back and look at the situation from a different, turd potty perspective!)

The only thing you got right in all of your replys is the very last word in your post above!!!

Here is the thread in sequential order up until you called me rude.

Underlined is the offered actionable suggestions for improvement.

Italic is my responses.

Bold is your rude or ignorant reply.

Chris Creamer's Sports Logos Community -> Concepts -> Buck Tradition! ... Chicago Blackhawks Concept - Alternative Jersey

Patchez

Posted October 4, 2009 - 01:36

Here is my concept for an alternate sweater for the Chicago Blackhawks.

I tire of the traditional set and the boring current alt. Time to use some of the colors in their great logo.

C+C welcomed.

First revision:

Original design:

nyy3351

Posted October 4, 2009 - 01:55

What? Its not embroidered?

Saintsfan

Posted October 4, 2009 - 07:11

I always have a problem when people feel the need to through colors that are only in a logo for detail into a uniform. Logo colors don't necessarily have to be part of a uniform set. And to my mind this concept shows why.

aci

Posted October 4, 2009 - 07:20

If you feel the need to throw the feathers on the shoulders, just use the colours from the front-most feather on the logo for them. Green, yellow and blue do not work on the jerseys. The whitish silver and more red actually have an outside chance.

gueman

Posted October 4, 2009 - 08:44

I would swap the green feather with the red one. I really like it when people on here think out side of the box. I have always been rather puzzled how a group so progressive in their world view are so conservative in their design view.

BringBackTheVet

Posted October 4, 2009 - 09:05

You know that I'm as willing as anyone on this site to accept a non-traditional uniform update... but this isn't working. While I don't think that the indian head is a particularly good logo, for whatever reason, it has become iconic and is really the symbol of the Blackhawks (moreso than your average primary logo). Adding all of its colors to other parts of the jersey kind of camouflages it. That logo really needs to be able to stand on its own.

Saintsfan

Posted October 4, 2009 - 10:20

I am quite happy for people to think outside the box, and to post such ideas. In fact I would prefer they did this that not think outside the box. But sometimes thinking outside the box does not work. I've seem some very outside the box ideas work very well.

zmspartans

Posted October 4, 2009 - 11:03

there's just too many different colors in this . i think the shoulders should be the same color , and there is too much green .

EatSleepJeep

Posted October 4, 2009 - 11:48

In the spirit of the Thrashers, it's definitely on the edge. However, I don't think it works. I would like to see them use the 4 feathers as a left shoulder logo though and the C with the Tomahawks on the right. I think the 4 feathers could be a great tertiary logo in many respects.

elliott

Posted October 4, 2009 - 12:29

Well, it's creative...it's just really ugly as well. The colors just don't look very good together. And your continued use of Arial is not a good thing. Especially on numerals and wordmarks. The first thing I would do, if you are intent on keeping the shoulder feathers (which is about the only good thing about this concept in my opinion). is drop the hem stripe completely. It's hideous and doesn't match the shoulder stripe. The shoulders are amazing. Keep them. Drop the wordmark, delete the green from the logo outline, change the number font to a block typeface, and get rid of the green base. The black arms don't really add anything to the design. Consider dropping those and making a smaller black stripe on the sleeve endings or make them come down vertically from the shoulders.

Patchez

Posted October 4, 2009 - 12:47

No knock against your suggestion here, but it is sounding like that which I stated above I was tired of on the Hawks look, same old same old ('cept the feathered shoulders)

Please remember, I am suggesting an alternative. And it's not Arial this time (I think?)

As for ugly... yeah! Sometimes ugly sells to the targeted market.

Serious question to all... What is the purpose(s) of alternate uniform designs anyway? I really wanna know your opinion...

Coast2CoastAM2006

Posted October 4, 2009 - 16:38

its to please the CCSLC.

Saintsfan

Posted October 5, 2009 - 06:06

Its all about the money.

bohob

Posted October 5, 2009 - 17:37

For starters, it's not Arial, it's Trebuchet. And quite frankly, I have yet to find a web-safe font that looks good on a jersey. This concept would be greatly enhanced by a quick trip to dafont.com's "Old School" section. In addition, no matter how much you try to argue it, there are simply too many colors competing for attention on this jersey. The feathers on the shoulders aren't a bad idea, but the execution needs work. I agree with elliot on the black sleeves… they don't really add anything, and they take attention away from the logo and shoulder feathers. In addition, trying to read green text on a red background is enough to give someone a headache. It would be in your best interest to make the wordmark and numerals white or yellow with the black outline. Kudos for originality, but this needs a good amount of work still.

Patchez

Posted October 5, 2009 - 20:02

I see this design as targeted less towards the demographic who'll purchase a jersey for "team support" sakes, or sports fans in general, but towards those who "outside" that demo, would purchase it to wear for "fashion" (I didn't say "good fashion"). Slightly a more potentially expansive demo you'd think.

The flags just suggest groups & regions who may purchase an alternative sportswear look than your "tried, true & traditional" look.

As for my poll... I believe alternate uniforms and commemorative marks, caps, etc. are primarily for providing additional revenues for the business of sports entertainment.

I am not knocking it... it gives designers and others an opportunity for a pay check!

As well as feeds out common interest here!

capn89

Posted October 6, 2009 - 09:32

I have no problem with anyone touching the Blackhawks. In my opinion, it should be done, if not at the very least in an alternate uniform. Otherwise if you want to play the "tradition" (old) card you might as well have the guys skating around in loin clothes. Now that's "tradition." But anyway. I like the idea of trying something new, using more of the colors for the team but, to be blunt, this is slap-stick at best. I don't know if using so many colors was the best idea, but I bet it could be done if it was thought out better. I hate the was the sleeves are with the harsh angular design. I'd recommend some serious overhauls or wipe the slate clean and give it another go. Play around with it. The colors, the designs. The more you tinker the more you'll see just how many possibilities there are.

Buster

Posted October 6, 2009 - 13:56

My answer: To sell more.

This jersey would sell VERY well in the ghettos.

Patchez

Posted October 6, 2009 - 14:59

BINGO! It's not a black or white issue, it's GREEN!

ChuckDownfield

Posted October 6, 2009 - 16:03

Patchez, you really should think about listening to C&C and trying to make improvements. People like elliot and bohob have put time and effort into giving you some fantastic critiques on your design, and you give no effort making updates. They present you great ways to improve your design and you just brush it off, because you think your idea is perfect. You even said it yourself that the jerseys are ugly, so why don't you try to make them better. In my opinion it is very rude to ask for C&C, and not listen to it at all. With that being said, I like the idea of this one, but the execution is way off, and I agree 100% with what elliot and bohob have said. Maybe, seeing as many people have the same view about this concept, it could be right. Take a stab at an update, please.

As of October 6, 2009 - 16:03, I had not yet posted an updated revision taking in suggestions that I wanted to try. And that to you is rude.

[Patchez]

[The_Admiral]

This really is Prologo '09.

[elliott]

Patchez, this is the last post Im gonna make not related to the concept, I promise, but I think you should take a breath, first of all, but also you should stop with the "me against everyone else" attitude. Like, you just refuted logocruncher and he made a pretty calm, reserved, and logical point. It seems like you are arguing with everyone that posts something that is not what you envisioned. And I think you went a little over the top on proving chuck wrong. Ive found that chuck calls things like he sees them and doesn't layer comments with s***, which can be good or bad, but just don't mind chuck if you don't like what he is saying, there is absolutely no reason to give a complete recap of the thread. I'm sure you can prove him wrong with like, a paragraph. Anyhow it looks like that you are approaching things with the mindset that your vision is the one way to go on the concept, and you are not giving credence to what could potentially look good on this concept. Like, instead of trying out logocrunchers suggestions, you shot them down. So I do agree with chuck's point that you are being a little rude with commenters (I DONT agree with everything he says though). I think you have the right intentions here patchez, but you are also coming off as assholish. So I think the best advice I can give you here is to calm down, listen to what people have to say, and don't argue so much. That's all I have to say about that and I don't want to come off as a dick, I just read through my post again and I don't think I did.

The concept is getting better, 2 suggestions would be to

-replace green with gold. the gold in the face of the logo. the green and red is christmasy and doesn't say blackhawks to me.

-add some curve to the black arm stripe. The straight line looks awkward compared to the smooth curve of the shoulder yoke and the hem. Since its easier for me to show it visually, something like this: